Avatar: The Way of Water

[Mandible]

This report is up all over the place:

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/19/disney-shares-fall-after-avatar-opening-weekend-comes-in-soft-.html
Not looking good. Massively underperformed in China as well, where they were hoping for a huge win fall.

I know about 4 people that have seen it now and no-one has been enamored by it. Very similar reactions; great spectacle, little else. But I guess it's also the circles you swim in, as my friends (like me) can't give it a pass because of the stupid, or irritating stuff. Interestingly though, we each had different things though that annoyed us

Next few weeks will be interesting, but if it doesn't get remotely close to the $2B mark - #3 will definitely be the last.

 

[TheeWanderer]

Hope this movie continues to do lukewarm. James Cameron needs an ego check.

 

[choombaz]

This report is up all over the place:

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/19/disney-shares-fall-after-avatar-opening-weekend-comes-in-soft-.html
Not looking good. Massively underperformed in China as well, where they were hoping for a huge win fall.

I know about 4 people that have seen it now and no-one has been enamored by it. Very similar reactions; great spectacle, little else. But I guess it's also the circles you swim in, as my friends (like me) can't give it a pass because of the stupid, or irritating stuff. Interestingly though, we each had different things though that annoyed us

Next few weeks will be interesting, but if it doesn't get remotely close to the $2B mark - #3 will definitely be the last.

You are assuming that #3 is going to get made. Some reports are suggesting even #3 won’t happen if this underperforms. No idea how much of it is made yet. So if even trades are not consistent in what they are reporting re how much this needs to make to guarantee the rest of the series, who knows.

Hope this movie continues to do lukewarm. James Cameron needs an ego check.

I love filmmakers with big egos like JC, Nolan, Villeneuve, their dreams are big and risky but when they pay off, man do they pay off.

 

[JMT1979]

You are assuming that #3 is going to get made. Some reports are suggesting even #3 won’t happen if this underperforms. No idea how much of it is made yet. So if even trades are not consistent in what they are reporting re how much this needs to make to guarantee the rest of the series, who knows.


I love filmmakers with big egos like JC, Nolan, Villeneuve, their dreams are big and risky but when they pay off, man do they pay off.

Apparently, filming for Avatar 3 has long been completed and that JC has handed in his first cut of the movie clocking in at 9 hours: Avatar 3 - Wikipedia

It seems that Avatar 2 and 3 were filmed together, so if Avatar 2 doesn't get to $2 billion, then perhaps the combined box office of 2 and 3 will cover the costs...

 

[Mandible]

You are assuming that #3 is going to get made. Some reports are suggesting even #3 won’t happen if this underperforms. No idea how much of it is made yet. So if even trades are not consistent in what they are reporting re how much this needs to make to guarantee the rest of the series, who knows.


I love filmmakers with big egos like JC, Nolan, Villeneuve, their dreams are big and risky but when they pay off, man do they pay off.

Cameron already said that 2 and 3 were filmed together, and that if 2 doesn't perform then 4 and 5 won't happen, and he has a way to tie up the story in 3. That was a few weeks ago, directly from Cameron himself.

I personally wouldn't put Villeneuve and Nolan into the same box as Cameron, ego wise. They're quality filmmakers, but I've yet to see them poke their heads out like Cameron so frequently does.

I used to love Cameron, but in the last few years he's been running his mouth off like a petulant clown.

 

[JAWS]

This report is up all over the place:

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/19/disney-shares-fall-after-avatar-opening-weekend-comes-in-soft-.html
Not looking good. Massively underperformed in China as well, where they were hoping for a huge win fall.

I know about 4 people that have seen it now and no-one has been enamored by it. Very similar reactions; great spectacle, little else. But I guess it's also the circles you swim in, as my friends (like me) can't give it a pass because of the stupid, or irritating stuff. Interestingly though, we each had different things though that annoyed us

Next few weeks will be interesting, but if it doesn't get remotely close to the $2B mark - #3 will definitely be the last.

Not surprised at all really.

People came back down to earth with regards to the first film and know that as an actual film it’s only so so.

I can’t believe he thinks this world is interesting enough for 5 films. Avatards were a vocal minority.

 

[a-dev]

Even if Cameron didn't want to make 3 more films you know someone would want the rights and would make 3 more anyway. With Cameron directing they might actually be alright.

Although I'd still rather he branched out and did other films.

 

[JAWS]

I used to love Cameron, but in the last few years he's been running his mouth off like a petulant clown.

I feel he has been on a downward spiral after Aliens

I know T2 is loved by many but I started having issues with his type of filmmaking with that film. Big bloated films were there is lots of action but none of it is all that memorable imo.

T2 is solid but you could start seeing the cracks

 

[Khev]

Even if Cameron didn't want to make 3 more films you know someone would want the rights and would make 3 more anyway. With Cameron directing they might actually be alright.

Although I'd still rather he branched out and did other films.

Have you seen AWOW yet?

 

[a-dev]

Have you seen AWOW yet?

Course not

 

[Khev]

Course not

Can't wait to read the reviews from you and jye next October!

 

[jye4ever]

I feel he has been on a downward spiral after Aliens

I know T2 is loved by many but I started having issues with his type of filmmaking with that film. Big bloated films were there is lots of action but none of it is all that memorable imo.

T2 is solid but you could start seeing the cracks

Meanwhile in Ireland

 

[Khev]

Meanwhile in Ireland

View attachment 613995

Watching T2 again earlier this year with the context of all the movies that have come out the last 10 years made me realize that I had grown to be WAY to harsh on it. It's a true classic.

As for AWOW all you need to know is that I loved it, Junkion loved it, JAWS loved it...even otomofan only said that it "mostly sucked" and we all know that on otomofan's grading scale mostly sucked means slightly awesome, lol.

 

[Khev]

I think the second act of the film is what's going to stop me from watching this film again. It's about an hour of family drama focusing on teen romance and fitting in with the new kids and befriending an outcast whale....wtf. The third act is good thank God, so it saves the film for me, but that second act felt never ending and I fell asleep twice. Still, the film is nice to look at, but I wish it was shorter.

Also, I expected more from the underwater scenes. For a movie that was making such a big deal out of exploring a new place in Pandora, it was kind of disappointing that the water Aliens live on a nice resort by the beach, and when they do go into the water is literally a few feet underwater right in front of their huts.

Yep I too was expecting deep sea adventures that would be somewhere between The Abyss and Aquaman. I definitely wasn't expecting him to go full Moana, lol.

But even after two viewings I thoroughly enjoyed the teen romance/whale bonding middle act so I wonder if that will be the dividing line between those who like it and those who don't.

 

[user 64404]

Strongly disagree. If a sequel to covenant was viable it would have been made. If Ridley Scott didn't take his toys back and Chappie did a bit better then Aliens 3 would have been made. Who doesn't want to see Hicks, Ripley and Newt again. I will concede that the actors are getting on a bit now but if Harrison can still wear a fedora then I'm happy to see Ripley go bug hunting again. Newt would be age appropriate as a strong female lead now in any case and Pheobe Waller Bridge would obviously play her.

Dude a sequel to covenant is still a possibility, Cameron took 13 years to release the sequel to Avatar and Cruise took way more than that to release Top Gun 2.

I really hope that Prometheus 3 can be made as it is Ridley passion project, the "Last Duel" directed by Ridley was really good and a must watch.

Investing in those 3 is nostalgia bait just like Dark Fate it would not work, those franchises need to move forward narrative wise, a sequel to alien 4 is better than reboot to give Hicks something to do, he literally was just an action hero with zero personality.

To the Alien Franchise it means sequel to covenant(the Prometheus trilogy would be is marvelous, he would probably tie up everything up) or Alien 5 with Sigourney Weaver and Winona Ryder would be awesome, go back is just nostalgia bait to Hicks and Newt. The new Predator director have proved that creating really good new stories tied to the canon can work way better than reboot.

Harrison IS A LEGEND, he can do Indiana or Deckard all the way he wants and people will watch, but Michael Biehn is a nobody now, if is hard to Ridley, Cameron and Harrison to draw people to watch their movies imagine putting Biehn in the cover.

 

[Khev]

I can't imagine the claim that AWOW needs to clear 2 billion globally to break even is accurate. How could it be?

In my mind the threshold that it needs to exceed to have respectable earnings is Aquaman's box office (1.148 billion.) If it ends up making less than AM did four years ago then that will indeed be embarrassing, lol.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Perhaps that number (2B) is to recoup what Cameron has spent thus far on Avatar-land, not just for this one movie.

Cameron got a price tag for his Avatar 2 and 3... and the majority of that total budget has likely been spent... so if this doesn't do as needed, then the assumption is that A3 won't either, and with that formula the bean-counters perhaps came up with the "2B" number as a bar to reach to guarantee profitability for the entire franchise-to-come.

 

[Khev]

Yes 2 billion for the total investment in all the sequels is much more believable with AWOW allowing them to break even in one fell swoop should it hit that.

But 2 billion per movie? That's would be insane even for Cameron.

 

[choombaz]

Cameron already said that 2 and 3 were filmed together, and that if 2 doesn't perform then 4 and 5 won't happen, and he has a way to tie up the story in 3. That was a few weeks ago, directly from Cameron himself.

I personally wouldn't put Villeneuve and Nolan into the same box as Cameron, ego wise. They're quality filmmakers, but I've yet to see them poke their heads out like Cameron so frequently does.

I used to love Cameron, but in the last few years he's been running his mouth off like a petulant clown.

When I say ego, I’m talking about filmmakers who take genuine risks into getting their vision out there and might fall flat on your face. But yes you are right JC is in a category all his own. But, he has been like this all his life. Go and watch interviews post T1. Or better yet go and watch the behind the scenes on Aliens. He absolutely abuses a puppeteer for not wearing gloves. And he absolutely hammered the cast on The Abyss. That making of, Under Pressure, is one of the great ones.

 

[Mandible]

When I say ego, I’m talking about filmmakers who take genuine risks into getting their vision out there and might fall flat on your face. But yes you are right JC is in a category all his own. But, he has been like this all his life. Go and watch interviews post T1. Or better yet go and watch the behind the scenes on Aliens. He absolutely abuses a puppeteer for not wearing gloves. And he absolutely hammered the cast on The Abyss. That making of, Under Pressure, is one of the great ones.

No doubt he was a fierce taskmaster - but rightly so. He was a mad scientist who had incredible skills across so many disciplines that he expected the people he hired to be able to do the job better than him... and when they didn't, he got pissed. That "was" Cameron, before he started spouting off that "testosterone is a toxin that needs to be weeded out of the male body."

That testosterone garbage and all the Terminator crap is what I'm talking about; he advocates a (Terminator) film "this one is the best since T2" then it tanks, and he comes out years later and says "I got behind them because they were my friends and so I wanted them to succeed." (Something to that effect).

Then with Dark Fate he co-writes and produces. Says again, it's the best thing since T2. Says anyone that doesn't like the film is a misogynist, etc (all the current ******** Hollywood says to place blame elsewhere), then it TANKS, so he blames Tim Miller (the director), and now, last week says it's some ******** about the fact that Arnold and Linda were too old. **** off ******. YOU wrote a **** film that disrespected your own lore; take responsibility and accept that you're not as great as you once were.