Batgirl The Movie

[ShadowX81]

Re: Batgirl - Written, Directed and Produced by Joss Whedon

Ugh.

Not once in that video did it bring up the fact that language evolves. In the same way that the word "Idiot" used to mean someone with an actual severe mental handicap and now has come to be a colloquial expression for someone that makes poor choices.
Maybe the word "girl" has evolved to mean any female who is young (a word that ironically also keeps evolving since people these days try and act like teenagers well into their 30s) and has become a bit of a catch all since it rolls off the tongue a bit easier than "women". The same way that "Guys" is a bit of a catch all word for males.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Batgirl - Written, Directed and Produced by Joss Whedon

For me, personally, I just think it's funny that the ones who shout "POLITICAL CORRECTNESS SUCKS" from the rooftops are the ones who ***** and moan the most whenever **** changes that they don't like. Look: if we never see a black Batman, I can't say that I'll lose any sleep over it, but I will be the first one to point out that there are ways to make such a concept work and highlight some of the areas where it could have a positive effect. With that in mind, I'd like to take a moment to ask: why is it okay that nearly every, single Batman film has a Batman that kills, yet Martha Wayne could not, nor should not ever be portrayed as an African American, and thus, Bruce, as a black man?

I would argue that Batman's code of conduct within the context of comics, while there have been some exceptions, historically, is a more innate character trait than his race, and yet, we don't bat an eye when, time after time, films ignore that in favor of a more ruthless dark knight. We only recently saw some pushback with Affleck, but there was none to be found with Keaton, Kilmer, and Bale, when it comes to their disregard for human life. With that in mind, considering the countless reinventions Batman has had, I fail to see how his being African American or, really, any other race, for that matter, is a bridge too far.

Killer white boi Batman > Black Batman


Why would Thomas Wayne, a ****ing white male, blue blood with a family crest and a mansion that's been been passed down for generations, suddenly flush his gene pool away to get some of that ebony booty? He wouldn't. That would be a stretch just to make Batman mulatto. In fact, in the case of Martha Wayne, we all know that she was probably one of Thomas Wayne's cousins (I would hope second for Bruce's case, but first cousins would make sense considering how unbalanced he is). If anything, I could see Bruce having a black half brother because Thomas Wayne got jungle fever and got freaky deaky adulterous with one Mrs. Fox. But Bruce himself? NAH. The Wayne's are practically English royalty.

I'd have no problem with making Alfred black though. The Master Bruce thing might be a bit problematic however . . .

Spoiler

This post is satirical in nature and does not represent the ideas or beliefs of this poster.

 

[batfan08]

Re: Batgirl - Written, Directed and Produced by Joss Whedon

Killer white boi Batman > Black Batman


Why would Thomas Wayne, a ****ing white male, blue blood with a family crest and a mansion that's been been passed down for generations, suddenly flush his gene pool away to get some of that ebony booty? He wouldn't. That would be a stretch just to make Batman mulatto. In fact, in the case of Martha Wayne, we all know that she was probably one of Thomas Wayne's cousins (I would hope second for Bruce's case, but first cousins would make sense considering how unbalanced he is). If anything, I could see Bruce having a black half brother because Thomas Wayne got adulterous with Mrs. Fox. But Bruce himself? NAH. The Wayne's are practically English royalty.

I'd have no problem with making Alfred black though. The Master Bruce thing might be a bit problematic however . . .

Spoiler

This post is satirical in nature.

I know you're joking, but I've got to disagree with the Thomas Wayne bit. He never struck me as one to do what was expected of him; otherwise, why the hell would he become a doctor? I mean, the dude had the cushy life handed to him, yet, still, he decided he'd go to medical school and devote years of his life to helping people rather than running his company or doing whatever the **** it is that rich people with tons of free time and nigh unlimited amounts of money do.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Batgirl - Written, Directed and Produced by Joss Whedon

I know you're joking, but I've got to disagree with the Thomas Wayne bit. He never struck me as one to do what was expected of him; otherwise, why the hell would he become a doctor? I mean, the dude had the cushy life handed to him, yet, still, he decided he'd go to medical school and devote years of his life to helping people rather than running his company or doing whatever the **** it is that rich people with tons of free time and nigh unlimited amounts of money do.

Okay, so how are we going to explain Joe Chill NOT shooting lil' Bruce Wayne in this case then? Especially if this modern revision makes Chill a disgruntled white GCPD officer that Gordon let off the force a week prior.

We could just skip right to the chase and make Thomas a gay man and Martha (a transgender black man that was named Martin) that adopted a black baby from Gotham's orphanage. That would be perfect for the rebel Thomas you're suggesting (and progressive too). That way we cover all bases (except Asian and Spanish, nobody cares about them).

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Re: Batgirl - Written, Directed and Produced by Joss Whedon

Neither. Stop assuming Batgirl's gender you pig. smh

Spoiler

I call them chicks.

Might explain why the "ladies" from The View sound like a bunch of hens in my mind.

 

[YoNoSe]

Re: Batgirl - Written, Directed and Produced by Joss Whedon

What I find disturbing is how people giving any sign of not completely and unquestioningly going along with current political Borg Collective group think is regarded with suspicion and they are assumed to be some of the worst things.

Saving this for the next time someone calls me a Prequel Apologist.

 

[jpuli28]

Re: Batgirl - Written, Directed and Produced by Joss Whedon

Let's turn it around... why does Batman have to be black (or mix)? Why must there be a change or a want to change? Is the race incapable of creating its own character, must it assume the role held by a Caucasian for the last 75 years? Whats the hard on to change or dare I say strip the established instead of paving its own way on its own merit thru fiction?

 

[batfan08]

Re: Batgirl - Written, Directed and Produced by Joss Whedon

Okay, so how are we going to explain Joe Chill NOT shooting lil' Bruce Wayne in this case then? Especially if this modern revision makes Chill a disgruntled white GCPD officer that Gordon let off the force a week prior.

We could just skip right to the chase and make Thomas a gay man and Martha (a transgender black man that was named Martin) that adopted a black baby from Gotham's orphanage. That would be perfect for the rebel Thomas you're suggesting (and progressive too). That way we cover all bases (except Asian and Spanish, nobody cares about them).

Why hasn't Chill ever tried to kill Bruce? I always thought you could make that work in several different ways. One scenario I had in mind is that it's a brutal, drug induced freakout where Thomas wrestles for control of the gun, gets shot when it goes off, and Chill who's pissed off and upset unloads several bullets into him in a rage, leaving Martha screaming in horror (him being on edge and wanting her to be quiet is what prompts him to shoot her), and, upon taking aim at Bruce, finds that he's run out of bullets, hears sirens, and takes off. The other being that he actually does shoot Bruce, and he's in a coma for several months. Maybe Thomas or Martha tells him to run, and it's an endless sort of guilt that he feels for leaving his parents in the alley that night. All sorts of scenarios.

As for Gay Thomas and transgender Martha, go for gold! And, for the record, I think you could just as easily use the same backstory in tackling an Asian or Spanish Bruce Wayne.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Batgirl - Written, Directed and Produced by Joss Whedon

I call them chicks.

Might explain why the "ladies" from The View sound like a bunch of hens in my mind.

I'm stealing this.

 

[batfan08]

Re: Batgirl - Written, Directed and Produced by Joss Whedon

Let's turn it around... why does Batman have to be black (or mix)? Why must there be a change or a want to change? Is the race incapable of creating its own character, must it assume the role held by a Caucasian for the last 75 years? Whats the hard on to change or dare I say strip the established instead of paving its own way on its own merit thru fiction?

Why must there be any change to the character? Why do you have a Dark Knight III sig, rather than a '66 Batman sig? Or for that matter, why don't either of us just have gun toting, purple wearing Bob Kane and Bill Finger Batman avatars and sigs? These characters are constantly changing and constantly evolving, and all I'm saying is "why is it so bad that, if a creator or director or writer or whomever decided that they wanted to feature an African American/Asian/Hispanic Bruce Wayne, they did so?"

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Batgirl - Written, Directed and Produced by Joss Whedon

Why hasn't Chill ever tried to kill Bruce? I always thought you could make that work in several different ways. One scenario I had in mind is that it's a brutal, drug induced freakout where Thomas wrestles for control of the gun, gets shot when it goes off, and Chill who's pissed off and upset unloads several bullets into him in a rage, leaving Martha screaming in horror (him being on edge and wanting her to be quiet is what prompts him to shoot her), and, upon taking aim at Bruce, finds that he's run out of bullets, hears sirens, and takes off. The other being that he actually does shoot Bruce, and he's in a coma for several months. Maybe Thomas or Martha tells him to run, and it's an endless sort of guilt that he feels for leaving his parents in the alley that night. All sorts of scenarios.

The closest we've gotten to the killer shooting Bruce is Batman 1989. Being a sadistic **** that he is, Napier definitely looks like he's about to shoot him, taking aim and pulling back the hammer. A shocked Joe Chill yelling at him is the only thing that stops him. Then again, I always assumed that being from the mob and that Napier was a hitman, Thomas and Martha were just hits.

But yeah, I always wondered the same thing. There's this story where Bruce dies and thomas and Martha live.

 

[a-dev]

Re: Batgirl - Written, Directed and Produced by Joss Whedon

Saving this for the next time someone calls me a Prequel Apologist.

 

[batfan08]

Re: Batgirl - Written, Directed and Produced by Joss Whedon

The closest we've gotten to the killer shooting Bruce is Batman 1989. Being a sadistic **** that he is, Napier definitely looks like he's about to shoot him, taking aim and pulling back the hammer. A shocked Joe Chill yelling at him is the only thing that stops him. Then again, I always assumed that being from the mob and that Napier was a hitman, Thomas and Martha were just hits.

But yeah, I always wondered the same thing. There's this story where Bruce dies and thomas and Martha live.


View attachment 333718

I had always been fascinated by Flashpoint Batman, yet I didn't read that book until, like, two weeks ago. Holy ****, Knight of Vengeance is ****ing fantastic.

 

[crows]

Re: Batgirl - Written, Directed and Produced by Joss Whedon

Ugh.

Not once in that video did it bring up the fact that language evolves. In the same way that the word "Idiot" used to mean someone with an actual severe mental handicap and now has come to be a colloquial expression for someone that makes poor choices.
Maybe the word "girl" has evolved to mean any female who is young (a word that ironically also keeps evolving since people these days try and act like teenagers well into their 30s) and has become a bit of a catch all since it rolls off the tongue a bit easier than "women". The same way that "Guys" is a bit of a catch all word for males.

language will evolve alright.....

 

[pturtle]

Re: Batgirl - Written, Directed and Produced by Joss Whedon

For me, personally, I just think it's funny that the ones who shout "POLITICAL CORRECTNESS SUCKS" from the rooftops are the ones who ***** and moan the most whenever **** changes that they don't like. Look: if we never see a black Batman, I can't say that I'll lose any sleep over it, but I will be the first one to point out that there are ways to make such a concept work and highlight some of the areas where it could have a positive effect. With that in mind, I'd like to take a moment to ask: why is it okay that nearly every, single Batman film has a Batman that kills, yet Martha Wayne could not, nor should not ever be portrayed as an African American, and thus, Bruce, as a black man?

I would argue that Batman's code of conduct within the context of comics, while there have been some exceptions, historically, is a more innate character trait than his race, and yet, we don't bat an eye when, time after time, films ignore that in favor of a more ruthless dark knight. We only recently saw some pushback with Affleck, but there was none to be found with Keaton, Kilmer, and Bale, when it comes to their disregard for human life. With that in mind, considering the countless reinventions Batman has had, I fail to see how his being African American or, really, any other race, for that matter, is a bridge too far.

I agree with all of this, and I think that's why the race card is used a lot, because these same people that want their Batman to be faithful to the source material are perfectly fine with more important character traits being changed. That usually saids something, but in this case, I feel it's just most comicbook nerds don't care about anything other than the designs of these characters, especially doll collecting nerds. The designs of these character are more important than the story or quality of the movie because every day they'll have to wake up and not see the same movie, just that character on their shelves.

Affleck looks more like Batman than any other actor to portray the character so far, yet a majority of the world believes he's inferior to Bale and Keaton, two men that look nothing like Bruce Wayne. To me, getting the best actor to serve the character and story that the director is trying to tell is the most important part. Considering race isn't important to a character's character, then I don't care if it's changed. If it is changed to pander to a specific demographic, then that's wrong, but it's at the point that we'll never know and people will just be screaming pandering regardless.

 

[GasparZizou]

Re: Batgirl - Written, Directed and Produced by Joss Whedon

What I find disturbing is how people giving any sign of not completely and unquestioningly going along with current political Borg Collective group think is regarded with suspicion and they are assumed to be some of the worst things. If you're a liberal who'd prefer if Batman stayed white then you can't actually be a liberal. Racism is the only possible conclusion as to why you don't want a black Batman. Your views need to be expunged, your mind needs reconditioning. Resistance is futile. It is the inevitable outcome. However there is, apparently, some ways to go. That last part sounds very ominous, I'm disturbed by it.

I agree with all of this, and I think that's why the race card is used a lot, because these same people that want their Batman to be faithful to the source material are perfectly fine with more important character traits being changed. That usually saids something, but in this case, I feel it's just most comicbook nerds don't care about anything other than the designs of these characters, especially doll collecting nerds. The designs of these character are more important than the story or quality of the movie because every day they'll have to wake up and not see the same movie, just that character on their shelves.

Affleck looks more like Batman than any other actor to portray the character so far, yet a majority of the world believes he's inferior to Bale and Keaton, two men that look nothing like Bruce Wayne. To me, getting the best actor to serve the character and story that the director is trying to tell is the most important part. Considering race isn't important to a character's character, then I don't care if it's changed. If it is changed to pander to a specific demographic, then that's wrong, but it's at the point that we'll never know and people will just be screaming pandering regardless.

The changes to character traits we've seen in comic characters so far have most of the time been to tell a story or to make a point, regardless if they succeeded or not.

They will never make a race swap or a gender swap to try to make a point, or to tell a story from that POV, never.

It's always to pander to someone to milk that social marketing, and you know that.

 

[pturtle]

Re: Batgirl - Written, Directed and Produced by Joss Whedon

Let's turn it around... why does Batman have to be black (or mix)? Why must there be a change or a want to change? Is the race incapable of creating its own character, must it assume the role held by a Caucasian for the last 75 years? Whats the hard on to change or dare I say strip the established instead of paving its own way on its own merit thru fiction?

I personally don't care what they change him to if they did, as long as it's inspired casting, but I'll tell you this, I'll take Idris Elba over Ben Affleck any day. Idris Elba is a far better actor, and an all black Batman actually makes more sense aesthetically. If the movie is good, and the actor gives a great performance, would you still be upset that they changed his ethnicity? I would be too happy that I saw a good movie to even care

 

[jpuli28]

Re: Batgirl - Written, Directed and Produced by Joss Whedon

Well because of everything I stated in my posts. And its not evolution its hypocrisy and an insult to the race assuming the role, saying were arent creative enough.

 

[pturtle]

Re: Batgirl - Written, Directed and Produced by Joss Whedon

The changes to character traits we've seen in comic characters so far have most of the time been to tell a story or to make a point, regardless if they succeeded or not.

They will never make a race swap or a gender swap to try to make a point, or to tell a story from that POV, never.

It's always to pander to someone to milk that social marketing, and you know that.

That's not true though. There's been times where certain actors have been picked just because of their talent or were sought after to play a character just based on their talent.

I believe mostly the pandering is done in favor of women, and homosexuality ironically white women at that.

Denzel was being considered to play Lex Luther in BvS. Would people really prefer Jesse Eisenberg to play Lex over Denzel just because he's white? Hell, Denzel even looks more like Lex

Billy Dee Williams was Harvey Dent in Batman 89, Will Smith was offered the role of Superman back in 2004, but turned it down, studios care more about star power than anything else, and there's certainly not a lot of famous minorities in Hollywood. Then consider that the new western for this generation is superhero movies, and 90% of the main character's are white, and the most popular superhero character's of all time are white then how exactly are minorities supposed to make a breakthrough?

 

[crows]

Re: Batgirl - Written, Directed and Produced by Joss Whedon

I personally don't care what they change him to if they did, as long as it's inspired casting, but I'll tell you this, I'll take Idris Elba over Ben Affleck any day. Idris Elba is a far better actor, and an all black Batman actually makes more sense aesthetically. If the movie is good, and the actor gives a great performance, would you still be upset that they changed his ethnicity? I would be too happy that I saw a good movie to even care

Idris elba would definitely make a much much better wolverine than Hugh Jackman as well. he would be able to bring the character more closely to the comics. and bring the rage better.