Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

[Khev]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Superman can get past that neck snapping thing and become the Superman we know, for some reason it's ok for every single MCU hero to have been a downright a ****** or made mistakes or killed people before and then become an Avengur, becoz that makez dem more relatablez, but it's unfathomable for this Superman to make a mistake or a desperate call or a tough call with the objective of saving people, even when there's precedent for that, but people choose to forget it because that's just how MS brown nosers are

Kara, "you're up."

 

[karamazov80]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Cap was a soldier in WWII. Soldiers kill. Stark, in the comics, was a drunk and womanizer. Black Widow was a Russian spy. Hulk would destroyed a city in a mad rampage. The whole idea behind Marvel comics is that the characters are flawed, and relatable. Superman was the quintessential boy scout. He is supposed to be genuinely hopeful and inspirational. The filmmakers disregarded all of that. Goyer and Snyder thought it was a good idea to make him "gritty and grounded." Pretty simple.

 

[a-dev]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Just out of curiosity, I know the status quo of his posts in here, and I've come to enjoy it, even if I don't always agree with it, but, hypothetically speaking, is it possible for GasparZizou to be redeemed, or is he too far gone for you guys with the whole "defending MOS to the hilt" thing? If he only later came to see the truth could you ever see yourselves forgiving him for his past transgressions against the noble cause of ripping the piss out of this film?



Sorry Gaspar, I do but jest

I agree that Snyder has some strengths, but we saw what his having free creative reign meant in Sucker Punch. I suspect he had more than a little creative input in Man of Steel. The rest of track record--300, Watchmen, Dawn of the Dead--showed a propensity for dark, dramatic, over the top violence in spades. But yeah, so long as he's simply directing, I'm OK with him. He facilitates action really well.

I honestly read ''facilitates'' as ''Fatalities''. We've got death and carnage on the brain in this thread.

 

[GasparZizou]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Cap was a soldier in WWII. Soldiers kill. Stark, in the comics, was a drunk and womanizer. Black Widow was a Russian spy. Hulk would destroyed a city in a mad rampage. The whole idea behind Marvel comics is that the characters are flawed, and relatable. Superman was the quintessential boy scout. He is supposed to be genuinely hopeful and inspirational. The filmmakers disregarded all of that. Goyer and Snyder thought it was a good idea to make him "gritty and grounded." Pretty simple.

Again, he's a slightly different Superman, his morals are a little more contextual than before, no reason he can't reach the Superman character we know, but you and a few others hyperbolize that to the extreme of calling him a murderer, I know you're joking of course, I don't think you're serious, but that's a topic that has been discussed to death.

Yeah, grounded enough that so far the only superpower he hasn't showed is cold breath and people keep misusing the word "gritty", eh.

Just out of curiosity, I know the status quo of his posts in here, and I've come to enjoy it, even if I don't always agree with it, but, hypothetically speaking, is it possible for GasparZizou to be redeemed, or is he too far gone for you guys with the whole "defending MOS to the hilt" thing? If he only later came to see the truth could you ever see yourselves forgiving him for his past transgressions against the noble cause of ripping the piss out of this film?

Sorry Gaspar, I do but jest

You won't kill me yourselves, you would't filthen your hands, but you'll damn me to hyperboles for eternity!

 

[a-dev]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

You won't kill me yourselves, you would't filthen your hands, but you'll damn me to hyperboles for eternity!

 

[VintijDroidGutzz]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Just out of curiosity, I know the status quo of his posts in here, and I've come to enjoy it, even if I don't always agree with it, but, hypothetically speaking, is it possible for GasparZizou to be redeemed, or is he too far gone for you guys with the whole "defending MOS to the hilt" thing? If he only later came to see the truth could you ever see yourselves forgiving him for his past transgressions against the noble cause of ripping the piss out of this film?



Sorry Gaspar, I do but jest

You know, for all the **** we heap on MoS - justified or otherwise.. Gaspar's been a pretty good sport throughout.

Not like some of the past horrendous exchanges certain members here have regressed into, showing their full adult baby skills - & then perma-banned.

Fight the good (pointless) fight Gaspar, we salute you.

 

[GasparZizou]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Thank you Vintij.

Some times this thread makes me want to snap a few necks, but some times it's alright.

 

[EVILFACE]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

I like Man of Steel. I watch it for a few minutes while flipping channels if it's on.

As for the destruction, carelessness of lives and da snap. Superman The Movie is still the best comic book movies. It was a DC Treasury Edition put on film. Reeve is generally considered the best translation of a comic character to live action. He made us believe a man could fly. Still does.

Yet he still fought the 3 villains in the crowded streets of Metropolis. And took depowered Zod, and hurled him into a chasm, presumably falling to his death. That is far worse than snapping the neck of your equal who has vowed to kill everyone. SII Zod just wanted people to kneel.

I'm not sure what could have been done with MOS Zod if he did stop and give up. They had no more access to the Phantom Zone. Helping the government build a facility to hold him could wind up being a problem for Superman.

Dammit, this movie needs to hurry up and come out.

 

[RIDDICK]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Fight the good (pointless) fight Gaspar, we salute you.

One could even say "Join the Nowa-Pturtle army, Gaspar!"

 

[Khev]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

I like Man of Steel. I watch it for a few minutes while flipping channels if it's on.

As for the destruction, carelessness of lives and da snap. Superman The Movie is still the best comic book movies. It was a DC Treasury Edition put on film. Reeve is generally considered the best translation of a comic character to live action. He made us believe a man could fly. Still does.

Yet he still fought the 3 villains in the crowded streets of Metropolis. And took depowered Zod, and hurled him into a chasm, presumably falling to his death. That is far worse than snapping the neck of your equal who has vowed to kill everyone. SII Zod just wanted people to kneel.

I'm not sure what could have been done with MOS Zod if he did stop and give up. They had no more access to the Phantom Zone. Helping the government build a facility to hold him could wind up being a problem for Superman.

It's not just that he killed Zod, it's that he killed Zod in combination with putting so many thousands at risk in both Smallville and Metropolis and his smug douchery before and after the attack. Even in Superman II when Clark went and beat up the guy in the diner it seemed kind of petty but Zack just took those moments to such extremes. At LEAST Reeve Clark had no powers when the guy accosted (and actually injured) him. He wasn't a fully powered Kryptonian that just had some beer poured on him or whatever it was in MOS.

 

[YoNoSe]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Could you imagine a better Booster Gold than Pratt's Starlord?

I hadn't thought of that. And now that I have, I'm sad that we won't ever see it.

 

[ironwez20]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Bummed we didnt get that trailer it would of helped lift the mood from nation wides dead kid ad.

 

[karamazov80]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

To EF's point, my issue isn't actually with any of the specific actions taken in Man of Steel. It's the general tone. Despite all the wacky time travelling, mind-wiping, cape nets, apparent murders, etc. that go on in the first Superman movies, it's still light and fun when all is said and done. Superman still appears as a genuinely inspirational guy. It's a world where things just aren't as grim and depressing. No one commits suicide in that universe, particularly not Pa Kent. So any specific actions or scenes that diverge from the traditional versions of Superman are excused. And Superman is a character where, even if the world is a bit more realistic than a comic book from the mid-60s, the character of Superman should be more or less the same. He should be above all that. I do not, under any circumstance, want to see him murder a villain in a fit of despair and frustration.

The Snyderverse seems to take Watchmen and Dark Knight Returns as its tonal starting point. This is a world where suicide and rape are real, and can happen to supposed "heroes." Where Superman is genuinely troubled and flawed. He might have a personality disorder, or a drug problem, or some weird sexual hangup. Even if it's not explicitly shown in the movie, it's easy to imagine it happening. You don't feel comfort and optimism when you see "Hopeman." You feel a pang of fear. Because he could be having a bad day, and maybe doesn't want to save your kitten from a tree. Instead, maybe he wants to burn your house down and toss you into space. Because he's flawed. This is a world where the government doesn't and shouldn't trust this guy, and where he makes threats to them, further creating an atmosphere of dread and fear. Because not only could he destroy the United States if he chose to, but he might choose to do it. That's the essential problem as I see it. Can you make good stories out of this? Definitely, we've seen it before in comics and even the JLU cartoons to some extent (though their Superman was always the right kind of Superman to my eyes). Is it a version of Superman I want to see on the big screen? No way. The novelty of Frank Miller's work has worn off, and it's time that we see what Superman is supposed to be, not what he could theoretically be in some Vertigo-influenced Elseworlds story. Apart from the Fantastic Four, there are almost no other characters that I feel that way about in comics--you want to do Batman this way, the X-Men, the Avengers, the Teen Titans even? Sure, why not? There has been a strong precedent for each in comics going back a long time. So it's funny to me that Supes and the FF are two of the specific ones singled out for this treatment. So funny I want to cry.

You know, for all the **** we heap on MoS - justified or otherwise.. Gaspar's been a pretty good sport throughout.

Not like some of the past horrendous exchanges certain members here have regressed into, showing their full adult baby skills - & then perma-banned.

 

[Khev]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Superman is genuinely troubled and flawed. He might have a personality disorder, or a drug problem, or some weird sexual hangup. Even if it's not explicitly shown in the movie, it's easy to imagine it happening. You don't feel comfort and optimism when you see "Hopeman." You feel a pang of fear. Because he could be having a bad day, and maybe doesn't want to save your kitten from a tree. Instead, maybe he wants to burn your house down and toss you into space. Because he's flawed.

Reading karamazov80 discussing MOS and DiFabio discussing TDKR are two of the great joys of this site.

Regarding other characters getting the morbid Elseworlds treatment I can't say that I'm looking forward to ever seeing the jackass Ultimates Cap on the big screen. We'll see if they ever go there. Fortunately he pretty much requires a reboot which is unlikely given how connected the current Steve's story is with everyone else.

 

[a-dev]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

You know, for all the **** we heap on MoS - justified or otherwise.. Gaspar's been a pretty good sport throughout.

Not like some of the past horrendous exchanges certain members here have regressed into, showing their full adult baby skills - & then perma-banned.

Fight the good (pointless) fight Gaspar, we salute you.

Indeed. He makes good and intelligent arguments. However I soon tend to revert to my default stance on MOS for whatever reason

 

[VintijDroidGutzz]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Thank you Vintij.

Some times this thread makes me want to snap a few necks, but some times it's alright.

Don't mention it.

Hey, Henry deserves a good second run, so as much as I'm looking forward to seeing Ben do the chin-tussi, Kal-El needs to assert himself as the god like character that he is. I won't be happy if Fleckster bounces him around Hopetown just coz he's Batman.. that'd make me want to headbutt Snyder.

 

[karamazov80]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

I would love to see "crazy 1950s Cap," though. Or John Walker. But as official Rogers Cap? No way.

 

[Sachiel]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Even in Superman II when Clark went and beat up the guy in the diner it seemed kind of petty but Zack just took those moments to such extremes.At LEAST Reeve Clark had no powers when the guy accosted (and actually injured) him. He wasn't a fully powered Kryptonian that just had some beer poured on him or whatever it was in MOS.

So busting up a guy's truck is more extreme than sliding him across a countertop into a pineball machine and knocking him out?

It's only kind of petty Reeve Clark's went back to that diner at the end of the movie after getting his powers back to beat up the guy in front of a group of people?



Superman is a God. He is above us. He will do whatever the **** he wants.

Kneel Before Da Steel

 

[Khev]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Rogers vs. Walker would be soooo awesome. That definitely won't be done on Evans' watch now though so I hope they don't muck it up.

 

[Khev]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

So busting up a guy's truck is more extreme than sliding him across a countertop into a pineball machine and knocking him out?

In response to pouring some water vs. an actual beating? Hell yes. BUT, what does make it lame is that Reeve went back days later to do it. That's pretty freaking premeditated and nasty. So if everything else was equal and the only questionable character moments between the two Supermen were how they handled bullies in a bar then I actually would give that one to Hopeman.