Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

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I will not eat them with a fox, I will not eat them in a box. I will not eat them here or there, I will not eat them anywhere.
 
I will not eat them with a fox, I will not eat them in a box. I will not eat them here or there, I will not eat them anywhere.

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@pturtle Sorry, I had to leave yesterday, so I don't know if you responded to me. Just so you know, I really like the Punisher. There's so many different interpretations of these characters, so it was kind of hard to debate without saying which. It was fun though!

I wanted to make an updated 2016 edition of The Clown Prince of Crime's Top 10 Fictional character list, but I didn't think anyone would be interested. I was planning on putting Punisher there actually, but the more comic book heroes I think of it's harder to pick favorites because I like so many. I'm not familiar at all with the actor whose playing him in Daredevil Season 2, but I'm really excited to see their take since I was very happy with their portrayal of Matt Murdock.

Just saw your list, and no Big Boss on the list?!?!?

Punisher and Namor were my favs growing up, but as I get older I tend to lean towards Punisher as my fav superhero. Daredevil is probably my 3rd followed by Doctor Strange.


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Are these ask nolan for permission and killer batman articles confirmed as true, or just taken as fact because it's on the internet and people hated MOS?

Agreed. I know Fabio thinks it's a'aight because he's done it so much in the movies and whatnot (and in the comics by writers before such a rule was made, who didn't care about the rule that was supposed to be in place, or who tried to find ways around it). But it's a heroic characteristic. It makes him better and more moral and progressive than his opponents. He puts villains in Arkham, where he knows they have a fair chance of escaping and causing more havoc, but he is sympathetic to mental illness and has a hope in the back of his mind that some of these characters may overcome their affliction. For those who can't be redeemed, he puts them away in prison, but doesn't stand in ultimate judgment. Beyond the moral/philosophical perspective, like you say, he was so traumatized by his parents' death that two rules became emblazoned on his personality for life: 1) no guns; 2) no killing.

Now, some of this is debatable based on your ideology or philosophy or religion or whatnot. But for me, that makes someone bigger, and more righteous and civilized than other characters.

Now in the case of old Hopeman, I actually do think that is the one of the few defensible killings by funny book heroes--when there is no other choice to immediately protect the lives of others (another could be heroes in war). The problem is that Superman shouldn't be put in that situation to begin with, as it casts a shadow over the whole character from a narrative point of view.

I agree that heroes should not kill, unless absolutely necessary. Even comic Batman came to realize it "I'll count the dead, one by one. I'll add them to the list, Joker. The list of all the people I've murdered by letting you live." And that is true. Batman is responsible for the deaths caused by Joker by not doing what should be done. Joker is not someone that could be rehabilitated. If he escaped incarceration he would kill again.

I have no problem with Superman snapping the neck of Zod. Here is a villain with the same power as Superman that vowed to kill every human. The only known means of containing him is the Phantom Zone, which was not accessible at the time.

And as I've said, Reeve Superman dropped a de-powered Zod down a frozen chasm to his death. And this is accepted. Because it was Reeve.

"Film director controls film's artistic and dramatic aspects, and visualizes the script while guiding the technical crew and actors in the fulfillment of that vision. The director has a key role in choosing the cast members, production design, and the creative aspects of filmmaking. The film director gives direction to the cast and crew and creates an overall vision through which a film eventually becomes realized. Directors need to be able to mediate differences in creative visions and stay in the boundaries of the film's budget."

__

Good director makes good films.
Bad director makes bad films.
It's that simple.

I agree with this on most films.

But ones that are made to produce money and sell merchandise like Nuclear Blast Batman and Freeze Ray Superman are going to have the studio drive the decisions. Just ask Sam Rami.

As for Whedon vs Snyder.

Whedon is the better writer. Directing is about even. Snyder crushes him in the visuals.
 
That's why I thought WB was messing with us and the real V battle would be between Batman and Bizarro. :lol

Technically any battle between Batman and any Kryptonian or DNA hybrid is a battle with a Super Man.

Doesn't actually have to be against Kal-El.
 
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Just saw your list, and no Big Boss on the list?!?!?

Punisher and Namor were my favs growing up, but as I get older I tend to lean towards Punisher as my fav superhero. Daredevil is probably my 3rd followed by Doctor Strange.


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My favorite superhero as a kid was Batman but I couldn't afford a bunch of trade paperbacks, I checked out a couple Marvel Essential Spider-man Volumes and 50 cent back-issue bins. I didn't really enjoy Spidey except for when he was married to Mary Jane, so I checked out the Marvel Essential X-Men and that's pretty much all I read—along with 50 cent back issues. Wolverine was my favorite character, but whenever I checked out his solo series, I never liked those. I preferred him as a team player. I've only recently gotten into more characters in 2011, and only just started reading some Punisher. I'm sure you have a far, far greater grasp of the character than I do, so I guess I couldn't give a fair debate since I'm only familiar with the few interpretations that I read. I know there's a lot of Batman interpretations that I dislike and are different from the ones I'm accustomed to, so I think we really have to refer to a creative run when discussing. I read Punisher being written as a serial killer, but I just read that some fans hated that modern interpretation. Perhaps, I too would like Punisher more than Batman if I read a different version.

I think it was the Knightfall novelization is what solidified my love for Batman. I haven't read it since I was a kid, so I don't know how it holds up, but I still have it so I'm going to check it out. Reading novels help me to get more attached to characters, since we can get a better glance in what's inside their head. I'd love to read a Punisher novel! I still need to check out Namor because I remember you telling me he was your guy.

I'll get back to you on Big Boss. Get ready for some reading! :lol
 
Was your father a billiards player?:lol

Alright, pturtle. Here's my long explanation. I don't expect you to read all this, but I get all excited about this stuff and I start rambling.

Ideally, my favorite fictional character would be a heroic solider who has a family, a good sense of humor, friends, a rogue's gallery, no flamboyant costume, a tragic back-story, and a compelling mission that I could follow.

Outside the costume, Batman is the closest to that criteria when he's written like a soldier for Gotham, but I need to read a complete story for him from beginning with Bruce Wayne till the end of his journey. That's why I'm really looking forward to these movies because I want a single continuity, even though I appreciate all the various interpretations.

Outside the costume and family, Captain America is pretty close to that, but the super soldier serum is a detriment for me. If the serum just gave him a healthy body that he trained his brain and mind to levels of near-physical and mental perfection, I'd be okay with it, but the serum gave him superpowers. In comics and movies, he's got the strength and durability on Superman depending on what the writers and directors want to do. I prefer Bucky Barnes for that reason, but I need to read a full story-line with him.

Big Boss filled my criteria, hence why he was my favorite character. The problem is that the writing, directing, and voice acting is pretty lackluster, but I ignored it because it was the closest I got to that criteria, and I spent more time with the character than any other, so I really put myself into him. My childhood dream was to become a solider and have a family of my own, but I couldn't because I have mitochondrial disease and there's no cure, so playing Big Boss in MGS3 was pretty special to me.

However, after reading a few Darth Vader novels which had great writing and dialogue, it really crushed the appeal for the series for me. The only thing left was that Big Boss didn't have the Force powers and the costume.

Now that I've just started reading the Punisher through the Marvel comic app, Big Boss' remaining appeal is gone. I only read a some Punisher, but conceptually, he'd my favorite fictional character if he did his research and had compassion towards criminals, and didn't see people as simply "good or bad people" to be saved or slaughtered; rather I'd prefer he saw people as people making good or bad choices. I don't mind him killing people if he was walking in the street and defending someone, but murdering people is what I take issue with. From what I read Wolverine kills a lot of people, but he doesn't murder anyone, which is why I consider him a hero. I haven't read Punisher from his origin so maybe it was a long gradual process before he went full serial killer route, which is interesting to me, especially since he's was Catholic. Unfortunately, I too, went through a period where I really struggled to retain empathy for people, even for my family, because of my post-traumatic stress, so I can somewhat to Frank. You just mention certain things and I'll shake really bad, so maybe I would have gone the same route as Frank given his circumstances.

If they made a Netflix series with one long continuity, and Punisher changes his stance at the end, he'd be my favorite fictional character easily. I know BatFan08 made fun of him for looking like an angsty teen with his skull get-up, and I can't argue with that, but I like it!
 
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