Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

[jye4ever]

Comparing DC to Marvel or vice-versa is inevitable. They're the 2 powerhouse within the same genre. Critics already compared them before and after, so fair game. Mr. Green enjoy Marvel movies to some point in the past. But this movie is in a whole different dimension, imo.



Nice post. Looking forward to his work in the future.

Superman represented the powerful, true...but WW was no slouch either.

 

[IrishJedi]

Mr. Green usually don't care much for the numbers, but it seem DC is getting successful $$$ numbers so far.

IrishJedi really enjoy reading Mr. Green posts. Hope Mr. Green continue.

 

[Sachiel]

I saw it in it's entirety with the family. I absolutely hated it.

Spoiler

This is really an odd experience for me because I had been seeing bits and pieces of this thing since the fall as some of you know. I was privy to a bunch of spoilers and got to see the "best" scenes that weren't being shown in the trailers and such thanks to an insider, a good friend. The only thing I didn't know about was the ending with Superman and Doomsday, nor did he. So once everything is in context, man oh man, what a **** show. I will never see this movie again.

It's a disjointed mess. There are like 6-7 elements running throughout this thing, which would be fine on their own if it was allowed to breathe. You have,

- a sequel to Man of Steel
- a solo Batman story
- a Batman vs. Superman story
- a cool apocalyptic "Mad Max" future Batman movie
- an adaptation to the Dark Knight Returns
- an adaptation to The Death of Superman
- little advertisements for the Justice League
- Wonder Woman

It's a cluster ****. I was getting frustrated sitting there because there is zero flow. The editing from scene to scene makes no sense whatsoever. One minute we're following Batman on his crusade to take down Superman, then they stuff a random plot about a bullet from that Africa scene into it. This movie made me feel retarded because I was struggling to follow it.

There are some legitimately good scenes here and there. Batman's "Jeeper's Creepers" entrance abducting that pedophile that was trafficing those girls with the two cops was creepy and cool. The Bruce and Alfred chemistry and banter was perfect and rivaled the other Batmen. I liked the crippled Wally guy as this disenfranchised man that lost everything and blamed Superman while a guilt ridden Bruce Wayne blamed himself. The sadistic jar of piss? That could be suspenseful in another movie. There are some great moments throughout that are worth seeing. I LOVED the Mad Max "Knightmare" sequence where Batman and his crew go to make the exchange with the soldiers with the Kryptonite, but they end up being tricked when it's just a little green light. Batman's reaction and the fight that results is really suspenseful and great but . . . for another, different movie.

Then the next scene plays and it sucks you right out of the thing and you don't know where you are. You don't care where you are. The pacing for this movie is ****ing horrible. Remember when Batman and Superman are getting ready to duke it out? What does it do? We're introduced to another subplot involving the Kryptonian magic ship and Zod's corpse with Luthor acting like some kind of witch doctor. THEN we go to Diana and her ****ing laptop watching scenes from the Flash, Aquaman and Cyborg movies. Then we're at Kansas where Martha is closing the diner and gets abducted. JUST get to Batman's "hunt" and trap for Superman. That could have been a great scene if I actually cared about everything leading up to it. That should have been the climax of the movie, not Doomsday and the Death of Superman.

You have this great potential with this broken, bloated, cynical, Johnny Cash Batman and a Superman that's trying to do the right thing but is getting **** on and misinterpreted by the media every step of the way. There is a good story to tell there, but this movie just refuses to do it. It asks questions and ponders philipspical ideas but never does anything with them. Things that are established end up getting thrown aside. There is no story here. There's nothing to take away from it. You have a few quality scenes sprinkled out and some interesting scenes that would be great in a different movie, but none of it works as a whole.

I don't like The Dark Knight Rises, but ****, atleast it had a story with a clear 1st act, 2nd act and climax that was building up to something. The Schumacher movies? I never want to see someone insult Batman Forever or Batman and Robin again. Atleast those are competent movies with a clear intention and a good flow and consistent tone. Like them or hate them, they're actually telling a story that you can follow and not an incoherent mess.

Like I said, the frustrating thing is that there's a great movie in there somewhere but they're just juggling too many things. It really reminds me of The Dark Knight Rises (which to be fair atleast followed through with A STORY it was trying to tell) where it had all these cool ideas but does nothing with them. It just drives right through the plot instead of letting any of the concepts simmer. Nothing interesting anyway. Simply throwing out these philosophical themes and having characters pondering God complexes for a few seconds with exposition isn't enough. You have over two hours to flesh these things out, so do it. Don't throw in as much as you can and set things up for a sequel.

The third act isn't how I would have ended it. Doomsday was completely unnecessary and doesn't fit what the movie established itself as in the beginning. This should have been a Batman and Superman movie, PERIOD. I don't care for the Cavill Superman since I don't like MoS, but he got the short end of the stick here. They ****ed Cavill's superman over pretty hard. He doesn't have any great scenes, he never gets to speak his piece of mind. He never gets to defend himself or prove his worth. He gets blamed for everything. Batman kicks his ass. And he dies. Cavill is wooden as ****, but like this movie itself, there's a Clark Kent/Superman in him that's worth seeing. I know if there was material for him he could do it.

This movie doesn't know what it wants to be, so I don't care. I was sitting in there with disbelief when Lex is mocking the senator, or feeding jolly ranchers to a government politician to get access to the ship, or cutting himself with a naked Zod body, or Doomsday blowing up with huge electrical CGI explosions. It was a **** fest, all of it. Is it exploring the ideologies between Batman and Superman? Kind of. Is it a quasi-adaptation of The Dark Knight Returns? Kind of. Is it a sequel to Man of Steel? Kind of. Is it just there to set up the Justice League? Kind of. Is it a trippy movie with visions of the future (which goes completely unexplained)? Kind of. I bet there was actually a draft where there was a legit movie with a story at one point in the development and production process until the powers at be wanted Lex Luthor's trump card and all the Justice Legause **** to came into play. I dunno. I'm sick of all these movies really. None of them ever feel definitive or conclusive like they're giving it their all right out of the gate. It's always setting up more BS for people to get hyped up for the next couple of years. It's annoying. This should have been THE event of 2016, it's ****ing Batman and Superman. Instead it just feels like another bad movie that's come and gone.

It's actually really hard to describe the movie once you get out too. Try typing out the synopsis. I did that for a few of you guys around the holidays based on what I knew, and honestly, it made more sense and had drama out of context compared to the final produc. What a mess. It's just that there are scenes and set pieces that are great on their own. You know, if you were like watching just the scenes in a stand alone, non-comprehensive movie. The movie in it's entirety though? Awful. It's not cohesive at all. I don't know if it was the editing or what but it seemed like the movie was jumping from character to character randomly, almost like the next scene didn't matter and it was just going from A to B to C, etc. There wasn't a flow or logic to it.



They should have kept it simple. Batman against Superman (maybe with Luthor acting as a catalyst with a CLEAR goal, played by a charming and RUTHLESS guy like Bryan Cranston or something) for the two of them to clash. That's all it needed. No Doomsday, no Wonder Woman, no Justice League set up. It all made it too muddled.

OR

Make a straight up adaptation of The Dark Knight Returns ala Wathcmen. Have the Joker, Two-Face, the president, the Mutant Leader, girl Robin and Superman.

OR

A balls to the wall apocalyptic Batman movie directed by George Miller


Dunno how you **** up something this simple, but they managed to do it. The people I feel bad for the most are the actors. Affleck and Irons are good in it. The Russian guys could have made for great thugs in a seperate movie. Fishburne does his thing and makes for a cool Perry. All these elements together though just don't fit at all.

Kinda pisses me off how these movies handle Superman/Clark Kent.

Spoiler

Henry Cavill isn't the greatest actor, but damn, I know there is a good Superman in there. Have you guys seen him in interviews and stuff, how energetic and well spoken he is? He's got that charming smile too. Remember the end of Man of Steel with that positive and upbeat Clark? What happened to that? Even the "you're kinda hawt" scene had a Superman with potential for humor and wit.

Why do they insist on making Superman so dour and speechless? We experienced that with Man of Steel already. In the African scene, he looks like a straight up demented psycho when he crashes down through the ceiling. How about instead of having him angrily smash the terrorist through the wall, he subdues the guy in a humorous way? I'm not saying he needed to say some Marvel-ite cheesy quip, but this guy has it all and can do anything. Why make him such a brooding bore? Batman is the one that is tortured, Superman doesn't need to be. I can understand scenes like the Congress hearing where he looks sad and disappointed that everyone in the room died because of Luthor's bomb. That's an intense and sad moment for the character, but he's like this throughout the whole movie! You can tell his direction is to be as menacing and unhappy as possible and it's just awful.

The way they play that scene when Superman rips off the top canopy of Batman's Batmobile is terrible. They play it so straight with that stupid bombastic, "epic" music, and they're both so stiff and serious that, to me, it's unintentionally hilarious. They're both so goofy. The dialogue is awful too and Superman is acting ********. Superman looked like he just smelled a fart or dirty socks or something throughout that scene. How about during the Batmobile chase, the Batmobile is suddenly lifted up and Batman starts looking confused/worried as he pushes on the gas pedal and realizes he's stopped and doesn't have any control. Then it's revealed that Superman lifted him up and moved him away from the chase to a different location. That would be so much better than that awkward scene where Superman is standing there in the middle of the road like a zombie or a freak and lets Batman hit him. Then how about instead of Superman ripping off Batman's doors, you have him tap/knock on the window, smiling like "yeah, I got ya mother ****er, you're done". Have Superman treat Batman like this little child, scolding him instead of that weird dialogue with the bad accent that Superman has. You should put Batman in a position of humility and Superman knowing this. Have Superman joke with him about how powerless he is or something. Instead of that cringey, redundant dialogue have him say "if they shine your light in the sky, don't go to it, you're done Bruce. Last warning" all cool and calmly. If you changed the tone to that scene and started with something funny on Superman's part, it would have played so much better. Could have worked. Batman should be the only angsty, pissed off character in that scene.

Completely agree. So much potential wasted on this film. They don't know WTF to do with Superman.

Two strikes for Snyder. If Justice League turns out to be another mess, he needs to be dropped.

 

[GasparZizou]

Theory on the Knightmare sequences I found online:

Killer Lizards | Knightmare Sequence Theory I just found

It's about the same as mine, but it's different enough in some spots.

This is exactly what I thought the moment I saw it. I thought it was pretty self explanatory, Lois was not the focus here because she obviously wasn't taken away from Supes. And the painting upside down to signify the coming of Darkseid was just

 

[WWEJedi]

View attachment 255074

 

[Victοr]

This is exactly what I thought the moment I saw it. I thought it was pretty self explanatory, Lois was not the focus here because she obviously wasn't taken away from Supes. And the painting upside down to signify the coming of Darkseid was just

Yeah, I'm still going with Desaad influencing them and not "merging timelines", but the whole thing is thrilling. I was reading the New Gods series from, 84 or so, and damn, did the Parademons look corny as damn hell back then. Seriously, they looked like oversized moths! I'm glad they're going with the "demon" look.

 

[jrice73]

This is exactly what I thought the moment I saw it. I thought it was pretty self explanatory, Lois was not the focus here because she obviously wasn't taken away from Supes. And the painting upside down to signify the coming of Darkseid was just

In total agreement here with you. The upside down painting at the end was the icing on the cake for me with this film. The way all the Darkseid stuff was weaved together culminating in Lex's maniacal confession to Batman and finally the revelation of just what that painting depicts was absolutely fantastic. I so need to get back to the theatre to see this film again!

 

[I Am Toys]

In honor of BVS. I had to.

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[guyver1]

View attachment 255074

I think they could do better than that

 

[Darkseed]

Eh, when every 3rd page or so contains the same post, it gets irritating. I'm not much for cheesy BS myself, but I don't feel like this one set the bar too high. MCU movies are cheesy BS, and this one was pseudo-intellectual BS. It's a pick your poison case. As I said, it wasn't bad, but it could've been a hell of a lot better... Let's hope Snyder actually learns something from this and tackles JL differently.

Agree....comparing each company's approach is something I'd expect of twelve year olds. Each company approaches their films differently so what is being compared is personal opinions which like critic opinions no one cares about.

The film has enough good and bad to talk about....it isn't like the film is ground breaking or exceptional redefining the genre to compare it to anything anyway....as you said.....it had great potential that was left on the floor and hopefully Snyder learns from it going into JL

 

[Starscream Soundwave]

I loved MoS, but this was a complete mess. Really disappointed with it.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I didn't like that Lex went to jail. It's his first film and the beginning of the DCU, and he's already in jail...already a public criminal? Don't like that.

 

[spindrift]

I can tell you that JUSTICE LEAGUE was already being planned to be lighter than this well before the critical outcry over the "darkness" of this film. Don't expect them to go full Marvel, but you'll still continue to see a gradual move toward more fantastical and comic bookish tones and ideas.

Ehhh I don't want them getting like MCU- I love the fact they go their own way and set a darker, more realistic tone. Some more lighter moments would be fine though

 

[spindrift]

I didn't like that Lex went to jail. It's his first film and the beginning of the DCU, and he's already in jail...already a public criminal? Don't like that.

He'll bust out at a moment's notice..he is too powerful and has alot at his disposal outside in the world

 

[spindrift]

I think they could do better than that

your signature does look like animated Affleck

 

[Remy]

Is it possible that JL Part 1 will be without Supes? some people are talking about this.

Superman will be the 7th samurai.
Snyder already made a comment about the ending.
The zombie superman in space coming back to life is a hint that the yellow sun can regenerate life back to superman.

Basically...I'm certain even with all the JL in place, batman knows they're still gonna need the big stick to defeat darkseid...I bet the last one will be superman.

 

[IrishJedi]

Zack isn't sad. He's too busy geeking out over meeting Luke Skywalker in London:

 

[spindrift]

Zack isn't sad. He's too busy geeking out over meeting Luke Skywalker in London:

Love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

He'll bust out at a moment's notice..he is too powerful and has alot at his disposal outside in the world

But he'll be some wanted criminal, instead of a legit business man who gets away with murder or runs for president.

 

[Ropen]

I wanna go to pinewood studios


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