Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Why wouldn't you use a more powerful suit all the time? What's the point in risking stab wounds when you could wear the mechanical suit and just backhand the bad guys through walls?

It was already blindingly obvious that Bruce didn't like Supes. So why did we need the Knightmare seen to reinforce that?

Why ???normal criminals would get away he would never catch anyone in that clunky suit. He didn't move fast did he... the point wasn't to move fast but to protect himself from Supes he knew he wouldn't have chase him... Supes was bringing the fight to him... big difference from criminals who run away

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

So what happened to Clark Kent's subplot regarding Batman's methods? That was a big part of the marketing and it's one of the many under developed ideas introduce in the film, but that had nothing to do with Superman's fight, since he was fighting to save Batman's Kryptonite, Martha.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

It was already blindingly obvious that Sarah Connor feared an approaching nuclear war. So why did we need to see her nightmare to reinforce that?

Well, that scene leads to Sarah almost killing Miles Dyson...that's what happens next after she wakes up...which then leads to them working together to change the future. What comes after Bruce Wayne's nightmare? I don't remember.

 

[Khev]

So what happened to Clark Kent's subplot regarding Batman's methods?

Clark let it go in light of more pressing events (Luthor blowing up governmental buildings, his mother being kidnapped, etc.) but it was the catalyst which prompted Bruce to use the Batsignal as a lure (on account of the "Don't respond to it" exchange.)

 

[crows]

There's history for the armor to be used on Supes too, context and motive as well. BvS is not Hulkbuster before Hulk attacks.

Batman's suit looked cool but there is not the same context. They dont have the same history as Iron man and hulk. Yeah sure Batman saw Superman destroy the city but batman doesnt know superman's powers fully, he only saw some things, he doesn't know he can have super hearing for example.

Iron MAn was kind of fully aware of Hulk's power. Batman went into that fight not really knowing much about Superman except the kriptonite

yeah sure the suit is extra padding and gives him extra strength to punch, the suit itself was not that bad of an idea

But it is just badly written into the movie, a lot of things are written badly.

 

[Khev]

Well, that scene leads to Sarah almost killing Miles Dyson...that's what happens next. What comes after the Bruce Wayne nightmare? I don't remember.

But "the dream is always the same." It wasn't a one off, it was a dream she constantly had, so obviously she didn't always wake up and try to murder someone. The dreams served the same purpose for both Sarah and Bruce, but he was *slightly* more rational and so it wouldn't have been appropriate for him to wake up in a cold sweat and run off to fight without proper preparation first.

Basically both directors (Cameron and Snyder) thought it was a cool visual and one that gave audiences a taste of what was tormenting the heroes and so they each worked it into the narrative at their individually appropriate times.

 

[jye4ever]

Why wouldn't you use a more powerful suit all the time? What's the point in risking stab wounds when you could wear the mechanical suit and just backhand the bad guys through walls?

It was already blindingly obvious that Bruce didn't like Supes. So why did we need the Knightmare seen to reinforce that?

Well, for starters that vision of his also informed him how crucial kryptonite was to his plan and that failure was not an option.

The disastrous outcome depicted set him on his murderous path to take out Superman.

 

[Starscream Soundwave]

It was already blindingly obvious that Sarah Connor feared an approaching nuclear war. So why did we need to see her nightmare to reinforce that?

If it was just one dream sequence I wouldn't mind so much...

 

[Khev]

Well, for starters that vision of his also informed him how crucial kryptonite was to his plan and that failure was not an option.

The disastrous outcome depicted set him on his murderous path to take out Superman.

That's right, it instills in him the terror of being caught without Kryptonite should he ever get on Supes' bad side so after the dream he immediately sets out to steal it.

 

[Khev]

If it was just one dream sequence I wouldn't mind so much...

Fair enough. Which dreams would you have removed? I honestly enjoyed them all. Obviously the one about his parents was pretty crucial as it tied directly to him sparing Superman.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Clark let it go in light of more pressing events (Luthor blowing up governmental buildings, his mother being kidnapped, etc.) but it was the catalyst which prompted Bruce to use the Batsignal as a lure (on account of the "Don't respond to it" exchange.)

See, that's maybe one of the the problems I have with the film. They introduce certain ideas...and they just drop it. Setting up that batsignal is fine, but that's from Batman's point of view, and we already know he has a problem with Sups. However, it's feels like bad writing when without any explanation, a subplot is dropped. I hope the director's cut doesn't do that. I remember some photos of Clark Kent in Gotham when they were filming the movie, and those scenes were not in the film, so maybe they'll expand that subplot.

 

[Starscream Soundwave]

Fair enough. Which dreams would you have removed? I honestly enjoyed them all. Obviously the one about his parents was pretty crucial as it tied directly to him sparing Superman.

I lost track of them all to be honest. There was certainly far too many, and the time taken up by them would have been better spent on the story itself.

 

[jye4ever]

But "the dream is always the same." It wasn't a one off, it was a dream she constantly had, so obviously she didn't always wake up and try to murder someone. The dreams served the same purpose for both Sarah and Bruce, but he was *slightly* more rational and so it wouldn't have been appropriate for him to wake up in a cold sweat and run off to fight without proper preparation first.

Basically both directors (Cameron and Snyder) thought it was a cool visual and one that gave audiences a taste of what was tormenting the heroes and so they each worked it into the narrative at their individually appropriate times.

That's right, it instills in him the terror of being caught without Kryptonite should he ever get on Supes' bad side so after the dream he immediately sets out to steal it.

This movie keeps cutting thru anything thrown at it with elegance and dignity.

Fair enough. Which dreams would you have removed? I honestly enjoyed them all. Obviously the one about his parents was pretty crucial as it tied directly to him sparing Superman.

I would've removed Thor's naked swim in the cave with peeping tom Dr. Selvig staring on.

Wait...

 

[Khev]

See, that's maybe one of the the problems I have with the film. They introduce certain ideas...and they just drop it. Setting up that batsignal is fine, but that's from Batman's point of view, and we already know he has a problem with Sups. However, it's feels like bad writing when without any explanation, a subplot is dropped.

Without any explanation? I just told you that Supes had bigger issues to deal with than Batman's methods as the film went on.

Was Star Wars poorly written because Luke just totally bailed on picking up those power convertors? I mean, come on.

In all seriousness though I really *like* that from Batman's point of view Superman IS there because of his "above the law" methods. Superman told him not to respond to the batsignal or else and so he went ahead and did it to prompt him to take the bait. When in reality Superman was NOT showing up because of Bruce's methods and was actually there to literally rip his head off and deliver it to Lex (Okay Supes was going to try and get Bruce to help him first THEN would rip his head off if that didn't work but still...)

 

[Starscream Soundwave]

I would've removed Thor's naked swim in the cave with peeping tom Dr. Selvig staring on.

Wait...

That was the exact same kind of thing. It didn't need to be in the film.

 

[crows]

See, that's maybe one of the the problems I have with the film. They introduce certain ideas...and they just drop it. Setting up that batsignal is fine, but that's from Batman's point of view, and we already know he has a problem with Sups. However, it's feels like bad writing when without any explanation, a subplot is dropped. I hope the director's cut doesn't do that. I remember some photos of Clark Kent in Gotham when they were filming the movie, and those scenes were not in the film, so maybe they'll expand that subplot.

the checks with "YOU LET YOUR FAMILY DIE" was another idea that was stupid because Bruc didn't even know that was going on.... weren't those stupid checks being sent for 2 years with writing and no one ever noticed?

And, as a writing stand point, what purpose did they serve? yeah sure people can make the excuse that in the story it makes sense that Lex was trying to get Bruce to get angrier at superman but why add something like that into the story? at all? specially when they make it a point to tell you Bruce never saw them before...
I know technically the purpose was to get batman to hate superman but it is such a convoluted thing to write into it... as well as so unnecessary,
What was going through the mind of the writer to add stuff like that?
The movie was already two hours long and you already had all these characters, why add stuff like the checks... it really just doesnt make any sense to me

 

[GasparZizou]

So what happened to Clark Kent's subplot regarding Batman's methods? That was a big part of the marketing and it's one of the many under developed ideas introduce in the film.

He went right in and told Batman to stop

Batman's suit looked cool but there is not the same context. They dont have the same history as Iron man and hulk. Yeah sure Batman saw Superman destroy the city but batman doesnt know superman's powers fully, he only saw some things, he doesn't know he can have super hearing for example.

Iron MAn was kind of fully aware of Hulk's power. Batman went into that fight not really knowing much about Superman except the kriptonite

yeah sure the suit is extra padding and gives him extra strength to punch, the suit itself was not that bad of an idea

But it is just badly written into the movie, a lot of things are written badly.

It's very much the same context, and Batman was studying Superman for almost 2 years, he IS going to know a thing or two about Supes, but maybe a sonic trap was a coincidence and has nothing to do with Supes' superhearing... You know, convenient

They showed alfred constructing the suit (eg the helmet was on his workbench), he specifically mentions working out some of the kinks.. it's pretty obvious it was built in reaction to the arrival of the kryptonians and completed during the 2 year period it took lex to manipulate batman

You're asking me to fill in the blanks? By myself? Nuh-uh, forget it!

People try real hard to nitpick this film. I caught on to that from day one.

The other day I watched the incredibles, perfect superhero movie by all accounts right? Well I engaged in the classic critique MO MoS and BvS had to withstand, which is basically asking "why?", without the slightest effort on your behalf to try to connect points, until you hit something, I realized not even that movie survives that scrutiny, I've done it with other movies, none survive, it's really weird why people have so strange standards for these movies in comparison with others and make so little effort to try to understand what's not being said via dialogue, as in, the rest of the channels that form part of an audiovisual medium, what they usually just accept in other movies.

I mean, if people really can't work out why that suit, slow, with heavily limited motion, probably resource inefficient as ****, and zero stealth capabilities, isn't used on daily basis by Batman, or are confused by the armor itself... Jesus....

 

[Khev]

I would've removed Thor's naked swim in the cave with peeping tom Dr. Selvig staring on.

"Hey Thor do you need any help with those visions?"

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

But "the dream is always the same." It wasn't a one off, it was a dream she constantly had, so obviously she didn't always wake up and try to murder someone.

She didn't do anything about it because she didn't know who was responsible.

I'm just saying what happens in the film. Like in all good scripts, that scene served as motivation to what happens next...she literally wakes up, realizes she has to do something to change the future, and since she had learned all the necessary information regarding Dyson in a previous scene, she went after him because she had his location and the resources, which is something she didn't have before. When I asked what did Bruce Wayne do next or what came after his nightmare, I wasn't saying he needed to go kill Superman immediately...I was just asking what came after that scene because I honestly don't remember.

The dreams served the same purpose for both Sarah and Bruce, but he was *slightly* more rational and so it wouldn't have been appropriate for him to wake up in a cold sweat and run off to fight without proper preparation first.

Basically both directors (Cameron and Snyder) thought it was a cool visual and one that gave audiences a taste of what was tormenting the heroes and so they each worked it into the narrative at their individually appropriate times.

Usually, a scene should lead to something, but I'm not sure the placement of Bruce's nightmare was appropriate, especially since it wasn't his first dream in the film, so it just felt like another nightmare.

 

[Khev]

When I asked what did Bruce Wayne do next or what came after his nightmare, I wasn't saying he needed to go kill Superman immediately...

You might not have said it but you thought it so....