Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

[cmiller99]

 

[SNIKT1950]

Utter nonsense.

Thank God stuff like that will never reach Snyder and co.

 

[Victοr]

Couldn't have said better.

I'm not even the biggest Superman fan (I've read stuff, a lot, but I wouldn't put him in my Top 20) and while I'm more of an "anti-hero" guy, this is spot-on. Character growth and progression is a must, but not at the expense of distancing yourself from the character's original traits and characteristics. He is supposed to rise above petiness and despair and rather be the evelasting optimist, the hoper of far-flung hopes and the dreamer of improbable dreams (that's from Doctor Who, but I found it really fitting).

 

[batfan08]

Couldn't have said better.

What a load of horse****. I love the wholesome Supes as much as anybody, but, frankly, I think it's hypocritical to criticize this version of the character for having doubt, or for being conflicted. I like this revisionist history we have, where we talk about how great and wholesome Reeve Supes is, yet we tend to overlook the fact that he gave up his powers, and, essentially, let a few alien convicts rule the world so that he could shack up with his girlfriend and get laid.

I could understand people not liking the decisions Snyder made in MoS, but I fail to see that reasoning translated here. They talk about this wholesome farmboy who is an orphan and alienated, but they don't talk about the fact that he can fly, and that people in the world are going to respond differently to that fact; to the idea that there's someone out there who could destroy us all, or guide us into, potentially, the greatest era of human enlightenment.

The fact is that this movie presented us with extremes. People who love him so much that they worship him as a god, and those who distrust him to the point that they're driven to do things they never would have otherwise. The only middle ground, as far as I'm concerned, was the US government, who was still trying to figure out what to make of him, and they wound up blown to hell. So, it's understandable to think about why this guy might be a little torn, when, in essence, he's caught between two very different breeds of zealotry.

Honestly, throughout the film, I saw nothing that led me to believe he was anything but heroic. Talking about him hovering as those people lost their homes? It was a slow-mo shot of him rescuing them in a montage of heroic deeds. By the end of it, he's willing to sacrifice his own life to save the world, and, still, that's what people decide to complain about? I can understand people having problems with the movie.

What I can't understand is why Superman is one of them. Is it because he failed to save the Senators? Is that it? That this Superman isn't too big to fail? The only times where the character was anything less than heroic was in the nightmare of a crazy dude who's so paranoid and distrustful of Clark that the entire plot of the movie hinges on his plan to murder him "just in case," so, if that isn't a loaded scenario, I don't quite know what is, and, the other is when he shows up and tells that same guy who's having nightmares about him and trying to kill him to cut the **** because there's a headless corpse with tire tread on the stump and a few charred bodies in some totaled SUVS because of it.

 

[ironwez20]

Couldn't have said better.

I agree with this.I dont even like superman, but man is he a sad character in these movies, he is a fun light hearted character and now captain america is taking his place. Enough with this realistic BS.

 

[greygoose]

The problem with BvS is that Superman is in it. People care too much about Superman to hate Snyder's version of the character and the rest just don't care about Superman.

An Affleck directed Batman movie will probably make the same money as BvS if not more and will get the critics on side because Affleck is heading it.

 

[EndoSickness]

Couldn't have said better.

What a great text. And although I loved Man Of Steel, I have to agree that this is "only" Snyder´s Superman and not THE Superman.

Utter nonsense.

Thank God stuff like that will never reach Snyder and co.

And why is that utter nonsense

 

[RIDDICK]

 

[Victοr]

...Why is Batman carrying a machine-gun (or whatever, I'm not really a gun guy) and a whole slew of ammo? Is he cosplaying as Bat-Punisher or something?

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

like this revisionist history we have, where we talk about how great and wholesome Reeve Supes is, yet we tend to overlook the fact that he gave up his powers, and, essentially, let a few alien convicts rule the world so that he could shack up with his girlfriend and get laid.

I think you also like to rewrite "history." It's true that Clark gave up his powers to be human, to live a normal life with Lois, but he was not aware of the villains. As soon as he found out about them, he asked to be given back his powers, giving up the normal life he wanted, being human, and more importantly, being with Lois, and he did it to save the world. He didn't have to think about it or go to a church to figure out what he should do, he just did it.

I could understand people not liking the decisions Snyder made in MoS, but I fail to see that reasoning translated here. They talk about this wholesome farmboy who is an orphan and alienated, but they don't talk about the fact that he can fly, and that people in the world are going to respond differently to that fact; to the idea that there's someone out there who could destroy us all, or guide us into, potentially, the greatest era of human enlightenment.

The fact is that this movie presented us with extremes. People who love him so much that they worship him as a god, and those who distrust him to the point that they're driven to do things they never would have otherwise. The only middle ground, as far as I'm concerned, was the US government, who was still trying to figure out what to make of him, and they wound up blown to hell. So, it's understandable to think about why this guy might be a little torn, when, in essence, he's caught between two very different breeds of zealotry.

I think that's one of the good things about MOS and BVS, and it's great that they show how the world might react to Sups, but does he have to be such a depressing character in BVS? Dude, doesn't even smile in this film. He's the least inspirational hero I've ever seen, despite wearing the symbol of "hope" on his chest. Sups was more optimistic in MOS, especially by the end of the film.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

...Why is Batman carrying a machine-gun (or whatever, I'm not really a gun guy) and a whole slew of ammo? Is he cosplaying as Bat-Punisher or something?

Because Snyder thinks Batman going full Rambo with an M60 looks cool...and it does look very cool, but it's not very Batman Unless those are rubber bullets.

 

[batfan08]

I think you also like to rewrite "history." It's true that Clark gave up his powers to be human, to live a normal life with Lois, but he was not aware of the villains. As soon as he found out about them, he asked for his powers, giving up the normal life he wanted, being human, and more importantly, being with Lois, and he did it to save the world. He didn't have to think about it or go to a church to figure out what was the right thing to do, he just did it.





I think that's one of the good things about MOS and BVS, and it's great that they show how the world might react to Sups, but does he have to be such a depressing character in BVS? Dude, doesn't even smile in this film. He's the least inspirational hero I've ever seen, despite wearing the symbol of "hope" on his chest.

I don't think I am. Whether he knew about the villains or not is besides the point, the world needed Superman, and he gave it up for Lois. However temporary, however ignorant of what was going on with the world, he quit, and that's something I can't say about Cavill's Supes. He may have had some doubts, but he never gave it up. I love the Reeve films, by the way, but I find that people can let nostalgia cloud their sense of objectivity, sometimes.

As for Superman being too dour in this film, it kind of comes with the territory. From the outset, he's told that people hate him, a guy's trying to kill him just because he exists, he's on trial with the US government because he opted to not stand by and let some terrorist repaint his headquarters with his girlfriend's brains, he misses something that costs hundreds of people their lives (and was perpetrated by a man who blames him for ruining his life and another dude who just hates him because he has an inferiority complex), he breaks up with his girlfriend because he feels like he can't balance being Superman with being her boyfriend, his mom gets kidnapped by a dude who literally wants to burn her alive, the dude he wants to help him is the same dude who wants to kill him, and almost does, and then the icing on the cake? That same little weasel with the inferiority complex who helped blow all those people up and orchestrated having the other dude kill him? He just resurrected the dude who got you into this whole mess as a mindless rage monster who winds up ****ing murdering him. I'd be all smiles.

 

[RIDDICK]

I could understand people not liking the decisions Snyder made in MoS, but I fail to see that reasoning translated here. They talk about this wholesome farmboy who is an orphan and alienated, but they don't talk about the fact that he can fly, and that people in the world are going to respond differently to that fact; to the idea that there's someone out there who could destroy us all, or guide us into, potentially, the greatest era of human enlightenment.

The fact is that this movie presented us with extremes. People who love him so much that they worship him as a god, and those who distrust him to the point that they're driven to do things they never would have otherwise. The only middle ground, as far as I'm concerned, was the US government, who was still trying to figure out what to make of him, and they wound up blown to hell. So, it's understandable to think about why this guy might be a little torn, when, in essence, he's caught between two very different breeds of zealotry.

I think that's one of the good things about MOS and BVS, and it's great that they show how the world might react to Sups, but does he have to be such a depressing character in BVS? Dude, doesn't even smile in this film. He's the least inspirational hero I've ever seen, despite wearing the symbol of "hope" on his chest.

Exactly.
BvS could be much better if filmakers didn't treat Hopeman in such a washed out neutral way.
It just didn't make any sense.

 

[kryptonianmutie]

Couldn't have said better.

Thank you for posting this Clown Prince. Except for the "loneliness behind Reeve's eyes bit" I agreed with just about everything in that letter. Ultimately Snyder deserves the blame but alot of the problems with Superman in these two movies comes from the scripts.

I'm also glad he didn't blame Caville because I think under better direction and much better writing he could've been the best Superman.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I don't think I am. Whether he knew about the villains or not is besides the point, the world needed Superman, and he gave it up for Lois. However temporary, however ignorant of what was going on with the world, he quit, and that's something I can't say about Cavill's Supes. He may have had some doubts, but he never gave it up. I love the Reeve films, by the way, but I find that people can let nostalgia cloud their sense of objectivity, sometimes.


As for Superman being too dour in this film, it kind of comes with the territory. From the outset, he's told that people hate him, a guy's trying to kill him just because he exists, he's on trial with the US government because he opted to not stand by and let some terrorist repaint his headquarters with his girlfriend's brains, he misses something that costs hundreds of people their lives (and was perpetrated by a man who blames him for ruining his life and another dude who just hates him because he has an inferiority complex), he breaks up with his girlfriend because he feels like he can't balance being Superman with being her boyfriend, his mom gets kidnapped by a dude who literally wants to burn her alive, the dude he wants to help him is the same dude who wants to kill him, and almost does, and then the icing on the cake? That same little weasel with the inferiority complex who helped blow all those people up and orchestrated having the other dude kill him? He just resurrected the dude who got you into this whole mess as a mindless rage monster who winds up ****ing murdering him. I'd be all smiles.

Ultimately, Reeve/Sups still did the right thing and he even apologized to the President of the US at the end of the film. What did Sups do after the explosion in Washington in BVS? He stood there with the only facial expression he has in the film, and then he leaves...doesn't even say anything. No reassuring words or anything comforting to say to the world watching on tv or to the families of the people that were killed...nope, because he was still sad that some people didn't like him, despite the city building a big statue of him as a thank you gesture...oh right...one guy painted "false god" on it...man...it sucks being Superman. The perfect moment to say something inspirational and to face all that hate and rise above it, but instead...he had to go...I forget where he went.

 

[batfan08]

Ultimately, Reeve/Sups still did the right thing....he even apologized to the President of the US at the end of the film. What did Sups do after the explosion in Washington in BVS? He stood there with the only facial expression he has in the film, and then he leaves...doesn't even say anything. No reassuring words or anything comforting to say to the world watching on tv or to the families of the people that were killed...nope, because he was still sad that some people didn't like him, despite the city building a a big statue of him as a thank you gesture...oh right...one guy painted "false god" on it...man...it sucks being Superman.

What's he supposed to say? "I didn't do it. I'm sorry that, right now, hundreds of people are dead. I made a mistake, but it's cool! #Hopeman2020 Peace and love, ya'll." He's not sad that people don't like him. He's upset that he missed something and people died, and he blames himself for it, and, in a lot of ways, he blames the fact that he let himself be so conflicted because of what people thought. His head wasn't in the game, and it cost them. People always love to put on the rose colored glasses with the Reeve films. Myself included. They did it with Zod, and they're doing it now.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

What's he supposed to say? He's upset that he missed something and people died, and he blames himself for it, and, in a lot of ways, he blames the fact that he let himself be so conflicted because of what people thought. His head wasn't in the game, and it cost them.

Maybe he should've said exactly what you just said and end it by saying something optimistic, like "I've seen the worst that humans have to offer, but I've also seen the great things you are capable of, and as long as I'm alive, I will stand by you in moments of triumph or trepidation, not as a god, but as one of you" Or some BS like that. Anything beats nothing.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

What's he supposed to say? "I didn't do it. I'm sorry that, right now, hundreds of people are dead. I made a mistake, but it's cool! #Hopeman2020 Peace and love, ya'll." He's not sad that people don't like him. He's upset that he missed something and people died, and he blames himself for it, and, in a lot of ways, he blames the fact that he let himself be so conflicted because of what people thought. His head wasn't in the game, and it cost them. People always love to put on the rose colored glasses with the Reeve films. Myself included. They did it with Zod, and they're doing it now.

He could've at least put the fire out

 

[batfan08]

Maybe he should've said exactly what you just said and end it by saying something optimistic, like "I've seen the worst that humans have to offer, but I've also seen the great things you are capable of, and as long as I'm alive, I will stand by you in moments of triumph or trepidation, not as a god, but as one of you" Or some BS like that. Anything beats nothing.

He did. I remember him explicitly telling Lois that he missed it and people died, before breaking it off with her and taking off to reflect on where to go from there.

 

[Spartan Rex]

Reeves wouldve rocked it with this suit.