Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

[crows]

I gotta say crows, you aren't exactly helping your effort to be viewed as an objective critic of BVS when you are defending the damn Fast and Furious movies this way

Is not just defending fast and furious but comparing the "success" of the last furious movie.

Are the furious movies "good" not really, are they entertaining? Yes, are they confusing? No
Is bvs "good" no. Is it entertaining? A lot of people don't think so. Is it confusing? Yes...

So I don't know, at the end of the day most people seem to have had a batter time with furious 7. The only people defending this are the hardcore dc fans.
I think the only difference is that furious movies dont have that comic book baggage and that hardcore fan base.
A bad fast and furious wont make a comic nerd cry , they are just a normal regular action movie.

This movie has all that comic / fan baggage

 

[karamazov80]

I consider myself a hardcore DC fan, and I'm no fan of these films.

 

[Khev]

Couldn't have said better.

Wait, someone just wrote a junior novel explaining how Cavill is different than Christopher Reeve? In other news, water = wet.

Yes Evans Cap is the better boy scout hero. And if he wasn't I'd be highly disappointed. But you can take liberties with a character when he's in his 3rd, 4th, or 5th live-action iteration. Cap isn't there yet. I'm sure we'll eventually have a pretty different take than what Evans has given us at some point. And like with Superman/Batman it will be cool to have options. If you don't want Superman to be "Batman-lite" then watch Reeve instead of Cavill. Just like if you don't want Batman to be "Punisher-lite" then you can watch West instead of Keaton. As IrishJedi said round and round we go...

 

[crows]

Meh, who cares about all that when the movie is boring.

BvS wasn't boring for me so I am forgiving if it lacks those items compared to other movies.

Being entertained is part of it, so go ahead and enjoy your F&F movies if they do that for you.

How is mos boring but bvs isn't? that's crazy.
Do the batman scenes really make the movie for u?

Wait so does that mean the superman parts in batman vs superman are as bad as mos?

So superman sucks no matter what movie?

 

[spindrift]

Meh. This thread has officially plateaued. It's the same arguments over and over, but now with the added layer of Fast & Furious poop... for some reason.

Yeah chasing a tail

The F&F films- were just awful fantasies with logic turned way low yet critics smooched up to them
BvS is one of the best comicbook movies ever done-but yes it is radically diffeent in tone and exection then , say IM or GOTG or AM, all of which I really liked.

 

[karamazov80]

Wait, someone just wrote a junior novel explaining how Cavill is different than Christopher Reeve? In other news, water = wet.

Yes Evans Cap is the better boy scout hero. And if he wasn't I'd be highly disappointed. But you can take liberties with a character when he's in his 3rd, 4th, or 5th live-action iteration. Cap isn't there yet. I'm sure we'll eventually have a pretty different take than what Evans has given us at some point. And like with Superman/Batman it will be cool to have options. If you don't want Superman to be "Batman-lite" then watch Reeve instead of Cavill. Just like if you don't want Batman to be "Punisher-lite" then you can watch West instead of Keaton. As IrishJedi said round and round we go...

Knowing that you are a life-long Cap fan (and from what I gather, were not all that into Supes as a kid), I would be very interested to see how you would respond to the pseudo fascist Cap from the Ultimates if someone decided to go that route with him in the movies.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

If you don't want Superman to be "Batman-lite" then watch Reeve instead of Cavill.

Or Cavill in MOS.

Just like if you don't want Batman to be "Punisher-lite" then you can watch West instead of Keaton.

Or Bale instead of Battfleck

 

[crows]

Yeah chasing a tail

The F&F films- were just awful fantasies with logic turned way low yet critics smooched up to them
BvS is one of the best comicbook movies ever done-but yes it is radically diffeent in tone and exection then , say IM or GOTG or AM, all of which I really liked.

That's just absurd (no offense) I'm not even a big fast and furious fan, I really don't have any strong opinions on it, but to say those movies are bad while saying this was one of the best ever made is just absurd.

That's what I mean by hardcore fan blind defending. Saying things that are irrational lol.

 

[jye4ever]

Knowing that you are a life-long Cap fan (and from what I gather, were not all that into Supes as a kid), I would be very interested to see how you would respond to the pseudo fascist Cap from the Ultimates if someone decided to go that route with him in the movies.

We already got our Ultimates Fury.

 

[karamazov80]

True. But very few kids our age thought of, or cared all that much for Nick Fury. I suspect the way Khev feels toward Cap is equivalent to how I feel toward Superman. I liked both as a kid, but Superman was way more important to me.

Oddly enough, I was a big time Hawkeye fan as a kid, and they Ultimates-ified him, too But Cap was spared, heavens be praised!

 

[Khev]

Knowing that you are a life-long Cap fan (and from what I gather, were not all that into Supes as a kid), I would be very interested to see how you would respond to the pseudo fascist Cap from the Ultimates if someone decided to go that route with him in the movies.

I wouldn't like it. I didn't like it in the comics and wouldn't like it on screen. But I'll always have Evans who did it the traditional way just like there will always be Reeve so if a punk Ultimates Cap ever makes his way onto the silver screen I'd probably check it out out of curiosity and then just wait until the next reboot. It's only a matter of time before they make a Cap that I don't care for, I'm not in denial about that.

 

[karamazov80]

While Reeve did really embody the Superman that many of us love, he was also in a movie that doesn't hold up well the contemporary scrutiny in many ways. With Cap, you have the best of both worlds--a fancy, modern, well developed series of movies with the character that you know and love.

It's very possible that I would enjoy the Snyderverse much more if I weren't invested in the characters.

 

[SNIKT1950]

That's just absurd (no offense) I'm not even a big fast and furious fan, I really don't have any strong opinions on it, but to say those movies are bad while saying this was one of the best ever made is just absurd.

That's what I mean by hardcore fan blind defending. Saying things that are irrational lol.

There's nothing irrational about a poster loving this film.

What's irrational and absurd is you belittling him for doing so.

This thread is just ****ed. Over a dozen trolls that consume page after page ****talking the film while the actual fans of the film barely even get a chance to discuss it.

People need to learn that if you HATE something there's no point in voicing said hate ad nauseam.

 

[Khev]

I think I got a little taste of what you're experiencing with Snyder Supes with Cap in The Avengers. Whedon probably likes Cap about as much as Snyder likes Superman (or he might actually like him less than Snyder.) He gave him a dumb suit, made him the "dufus" out of time, didn't allow him very interesting fighting techniques, etc. In fact Evans had to constantly remind Whedon of how cool Cap is. On the commentary Whedon said that he made the fake SHIELD agents going toe to toe with Cap in an extended fist fight on the helicarrier until Evans said, "Joss remember I'm a supersoldier, when I hit a normal guy they tend to stay down." Oh yeah, oops. Maybe Cavill should have stepped up and challenged Snyder every once in a while, who knows.

I'm just glad Cap got a cool origin movie and got to move past his portrayal in the Avengers flicks. Okay he did more than "get past" The Avengers because TWS is pretty damn spectacular and quite simply a dream come true. I hear you about the perfect Superman only being in dated flicks. But it took what, five or six live-action Batmans until we got Bale in Batman Begins? Maybe it'll just be a longer road with Supes too but at least it's a character that will never go away so there's always hope for the next one.

That's speaking to you traditionalists, I'm okay with the conflicted and flawed version we have in BvS (minus a couple quibbles of my own.)

 

[spindrift]

There's nothing irrational about a poster loving this film.

What's irrational and absurd is you belittling him for doing so.

This thread is just ****ed. Over a dozen trolls that consume page after page ****talking the film while the actual fans of the film barely even get a chance to discuss it.

People need to learn that if you HATE something there's no point in voicing said hate ad nauseam.

Thanks buddy! I didn't feel the need to respond....

 

[karamazov80]

I think I got a little taste of what you're experiencing with Snyder Supes with Cap in The Avengers. Whedon probably likes Cap about as much as Snyder likes Superman (or he might actually like him less than Snyder.) He gave him a dumb suit, made him the "dufus" out of time, didn't allow him very interesting fighting techniques, etc. In fact Evans had to constantly remind Whedon of how cool Cap is. On the commentary Whedon said that he made the fake SHIELD agents going toe to toe with Cap in an extended fist fight on the helicarrier until Evans said, "Joss remember I'm a supersoldier, when I hit a normal guy they tend to stay down." Oh yeah, oops.

I'm just glad the character got a cool origin movie and got move past his portrayal in the Avengers flicks. Okay he did more than "get past" The Avengers because TWS is pretty damn spectacular and quite simply a dream come true. I hear you about the perfect Superman only being in dated flicks. But it took what, five or six live-action Batmans until we got Bale in Batman Begins? Maybe it'll just be a longer road with Supes too but at least it's a character that will never go away so there's always hope for the next one.

That's speaking to you traditionalists, I'm okay with the conflicted and flawed version we have in BvS (minus a couple quibbles of my own.)

Yeah, Cap in Avengers annoyed me a bit as well. Though I thought his characterization was fine, I didn't like how Iron Man bested him in just about every way, even really being a better and wiser leader by being the one who was justifiably skeptical of the government (super ironic given where Civil War is going ).

I don't think the goofy suit was intentional, though. I think they just kept trying to do "modern movie realistic" interpretation of the comic, until they just realized that the WWII styled helmet was the best solution overall.

I also agree about Batman, though unlike Supes, he's had enough variety over the years going through the 40s, 50s, 70s, etc., that detours into either kitch or uber-dark killer (talking Burton version, but Snyder as well) are more acceptable.

 

[Khev]

I can also understand being really annoyed if the Death of Superman is a favorite storyline. My favorite Cap runs were the Cap No More/John Walker story, all of his tussles with the Serpent Society, and then some of his more classic encounters with the Red Skull and Madame HYDRA (at the hands of Buscema and Steranko, respectively.) If Whedon had done a little bit of those (or worse, done them and messed them up) to the point that now they can't go down those roads again I'd be pissed.

 

[karamazov80]

It's funny that you can really tell what the formative Superman influences were on people by what most upsets them about these movies

I liked Death of Superman (not as much as Snyder, I'm sure, with all the "fun" deaths in this movie ), but I was a pre-teen at that point, and so it didn't resonate so much with me. The parts I liked best were actually those with the Justice League at the time, because you just never saw an enemy decimating a major team like that, and their having no recourse or way of ultimately winning out. He shrugged them off like insects. Even a Green Lantern (Guy Gardner) got his ass whupped. That was unusual at the time.

But for some others here, they're really upset about Doomsday being already apparently done in these films. I would have been perfectly happy to never see Doomsday on the screen. Toyman, Parasite, and Mxyzptlk, though. . .

 

[a-dev]

While Reeve did really embody the Superman that many of us love, he was also in a movie that doesn't hold up well the contemporary scrutiny in many ways. With Cap, you have the best of both worlds--a fancy, modern, well developed series of movies with the character that you know and love.

I wonder is it comparable to a scenario where if, say, Hot Toys made a figure of Jai Courtney as Kyle Reese with today's standards and advances in toy-making technology (and some people end up being really happy with that)....whereas fans of the 'proper' Kyle Reese have to make do with MMS01. A great figure for its time but it shows its age now. A frustrating situation.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I wonder is it comparable to a scenario where if, say, Hot Toys made a figure of Jai Courtney as Kyle Reese with today's standards and advances in toy-making technology (and some people end up being really happy with that)....whereas fans of the 'proper' Kyle Reese have to make do with MMS01. A frustrating situation.

Perfect analogy and great way to some how work in T1/T2 into the conversation.

Here's your reward.