MoS dragged like a ****.
Not solid enough for a simple origin story.
Different style.
Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)
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The Clown Prince of Crime
Super Freak
Well people defending this movie keep saying how this Is a complete success because it MIGHT reach 1 billion.
So if box office is what matters....
I honestly still don't understand how the success of bvs is being measured, every week something else is what matters.
Last week it was the fans, but the fans are not really doing much repeated viewings... So the success of bvs is the barely reaching the billion, (which it might not do, it might top at 900 ) is 900 million a lot of money? Sure, but the studio expected passing the billion dollar mark.
Again Im not sure how success is being measured besides the whole "I loved it therefore is the most successful movie ever made just because I love it and the most perfect thing ever created just because i SAY SO!!"
I'm sure WB sees the film a disappointment, not just critically, but financially. TDK made $534 million domestically and TDKR mane $448 million, and those were solo Batman films. BVS might not even get to $300 million domestically. Batman 89 made like $250 domestically, and that was almost 30 years ago
Fits totally in line with what we saw from him in the movie, so I don't think it needed to be cut out. But yes, one more instance of making superman a bit darker. This is one area though, where I definitely agree that if you look at it from the standpoint of realism, Superman could only use the hearing power all the time if he were constantly flying around doing things like Samaritan in Astro City, with little to no time for any real life or alter ego stuff.
Now now, Hulk smiled after spitting his own tooth out in your precious AoU.
True, nothing I love to heap praise on more than AOU.Riddick, he. . .he earned it.
I'm sure Disney would have loved TFA to have surpassed ANH's adjusted for inflation take, or repeated what Avatar did in 2009/10 but being the new "highest grossing film" in a series or of all time or whatever just isn't typically a very realistic expectation to have.
daikkenaurora
Super Freak
A Jor-El Backstory is fine... but did we need an Avatar-esque battle scene and then a scene with a planet blowing up? Isnt that a bit much?
Written better, better acting, etc.
So you dont know and neither do I. They're unnecessary characters. Doesn't matter if they are in a scene or not.
The dark tone doesnt work for Superman but that is just me.
Poor writing is what it was.
Starscream Soundwave
Super Freak
MoS dragged like a ****.
Not solid enough for a simple origin story.
Different style.
Personally, I didn't think it felt like a drag. But you're not wrong, some bits still could have been cut out, or at least just been touched on, which would have made it flow a little better.
How would you 'solidify' it?
No, the editing in BvS just didn't flow. It cut away in awkward moments, lingered on parts for too long, and skimmed past parts too quickly. The editing alone was probably BvS's biggest issue. Behind Eisenberg, that is.
It's funny that you can really tell what the formative Superman influences were on people by what most upsets them about these movies
I liked Death of Superman (not as much as Snyder, I'm sure, with all the "fun" deaths in this movie
I'm pretty sure he put Wonder Woman through a house
The Clown Prince of Crime
Super Freak
It was for this film. Again, a solo Batman movie beat this thing, domestically and internationally. We're not talking about being the biggest film ever, but when a movie that has the "trinity" for the first time on film can't even beat the last two solo Batman films, there's a big problem. BVS should have been the biggest pop culture event of 2016, easily. Hell, the last Transformers film, POTC and Fast and the Furious 7 made more...a lot more than BVS. That's embarrassing for WB/DC. It better beat Deadpool at least...that's how low the bar is now, BVS is competing with DP
Starscream Soundwave
Super Freak
It was needed because it showed you what happened to Krypton. I know some people don't care about that sort of thing, but I do think it's necessary.
Zod had a crew. There were some who were part of the story, and some who weren't. We didn't need a scene dedicated to every single one of them.
Yeah, some parts of the script could have been improved. But, as a whole, there was nothing majorly wrong with it.
Well, he could come up with a system to determine which threats require his immediate assistance and which do not. Granted, the scenes with the flood and the rocket showed that, but I reckon a scene showing the burden of his super-hearing (well, this sounds ridiculous if you say it out lout) would be a great way to flesh him out a bit more besides "ugh, this is...hard...ugh....it sucks to be me". I mean, if the Sentry can do it, why not Superman?
EDIT: Wrong Alt-U, dangit...
daikkenaurora
Super Freak
You could have had a simple scene where Jor-El walks into the council and Zod and his crew has been apprehended. We dont know what he's done but it was enough to have him locked up. Zod sees Jor-El and says "Congratulations on the birth of your son. What I do, I do for me people". Later on when he's talking with Supe, he'd talk about what he did (probably killing people unjustly). And no phallic shaped rocket things. I'm actually probably the only person who thought Zod should not be the villain of the movie (or even in the movie).
They each deserved their own $250 million movie (kidding).
Sure, the boat is full of holes but it didnt sink.
It was for this film. Again, a solo Batman movie beat this thing, domestically and internationally. We're not talking about being the biggest film ever, but when a movie that has the "trinity" for the first time on film can't even beat the last two solo Batman films, there's a big problem. BVS should have been the biggest pop culture event of 2016, easily. Hell, the last Transformers film, POTC and Fast and the Furious 7 made more...a lot more than BVS. That's embarrassing for WB/DC. It better beat Deadpool at least...that's how low the bar is, BVS is competing with DP
It isn't so simple as that. Timing is a big factor and you seem to be in "2012 mode." Shared universes are old hat. Batman is old hat, Supes isn't exactly the most beloved hero in the world (whether or not you want to blame MOS for that) and WW is cool but again, not some earth shattering titan that everyone was desperate to see on the big screen. Bryan Singer's X-Men in 2000 was the "first time" the X-Men were seen in live-action, first time seeing Wolverine and all that and it didn't even do Batman Forever numbers. Batman Begins, arguably the greatest superhero film ever made when it was released in 2005 (AND starring Batman) didn't surpass Burton numbers or either Spidey flick.
Again, there are a lot of factors at play and it's naive to assume that year after year, decade after decade, that whatever big name superhero or team-up will automatically meet or exceed the box office of what came before. As you indicated with Deadpool there is just so much competition now and popularity is stretched across so many heroes and series' now that there's no guarantee as to who will or "should" ever be on top in any given year.
spindrift
Super Freak
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Exactly- just as a couple years from now a new Star Wars movie won't be an event and be a top ten grosser of all time boxoffice. Batman has several movies and lots of exposure the last twenty years. These properties aren't as new and exciting. I never believed the world would bow to BvS as a movie or an event. No matter how critically acclaimed. Just as AoU didn't surpass the Avengers like I thought it would. Don't be surprised if superhero fatigue little by little sets in even in the MCU films.
My first instinct is to agree with Khev on this one. If this movie happened in 2009? Would have been mind blowing simply seeing these characters together. Now, it really has lost its novelty for many of us, who expect team-ups as a matter of course.
Having said that, this movie made more on opening weekend than the vast majority of movies, even Marvel movies. And no offense to the marketing, but I don't think it was simply because the movie was made to look "good." That suggests to me that people still did want to go to the movies to see the novelty of Batman/Superman together for the first time. It wasn't like people were going in droves to see it over and over. If that were the case, then we wouldn't have seen the week 2 dropoff. So, I chalk its success up to the novelty really.
So, I think it's a mixture of the two perspectives. Would it have done better if released a few years back? Yes. But did the team-up still draw lots of viewers? Yes.
Having said that, this movie made more on opening weekend than the vast majority of movies, even Marvel movies. And no offense to the marketing, but I don't think it was simply because the movie was made to look "good." That suggests to me that people still did want to go to the movies to see the novelty of Batman/Superman together for the first time. It wasn't like people were going in droves to see it over and over. If that were the case, then we wouldn't have seen the week 2 dropoff. So, I chalk its success up to the novelty really.
So, I think it's a mixture of the two perspectives. Would it have done better if released a few years back? Yes. But did the team-up still draw lots of viewers? Yes.
Starscream Soundwave
Super Freak
Yeah, they probably could've trimmed down the whole bit on Krypton, but had they taken too much it would have added a little too much mystery. Suppose since they paid for Russell Crowe they wanted to use him as much as possible
I wouldn't go as far as to say 'full of' but yeah, nicely put.
That's what I was wondering too, bringing batman in because the movie was not as well received,
daikkenaurora
Super Freak
Yeah, they probably could've trimmed down the whole bit on Krypton, but had they taken too much it would have added a little too much mystery. Suppose since they paid for Russell Crowe they wanted to use him as much as possible
I wouldn't go as far as to say 'full of' but yeah, nicely put.
Then use Jor-El's character to show us more of Krypton. That way, the audience can see what Supe is missing out on. Space Starbucks, Dunkin' Krypton etc.
I can hear Celine Dion singing right now.
GasparZizou
Super Freak
IIRC Snyder was toying with the idea (bringing Batman) and discussing it even before MoS came out.
The Clown Prince of Crime
Super Freak
No their not. People have been waiting to see JL and the DC characters in the same film for decades.
Batman is old hat now, really? Is that why WB is giving him his own Lego film after he stole the original Lego film? Or his own tv show? Never mind the fact his the second most profitable fictional character behind Spiderman when it comes to merchandise...but sure...seeing the "first comic accurate" Batman on film is old...yeah. I bet WB is going to use that line soon as an excuse.
As far as WW, the casting probably didn't help, since people weren't sold on Gadot, but most people like her now, including me. And because of that I'm very interested in the WW film.
The general audience didn't even know what X Men was. The general audience's knowledge of those characters comes from those films, not decades of pop culture relevancy, unlike Batman, Superman, and WW. When my father saw that film, he had no idea what an X Men was or what a Wolverine was, but he knew Batman, Superman, and WW...even my grandparents knew who they were. Also, since timing is so important to you, X- Men came out in a time when there were almost no Superhero films. X MEN was a brand new franchise and the first major "superhero" film since all the bad 90's films, like Steel and Batman and Robin.
Because of how bad the last 3 Batman films were. Noticed how Batman 89 and Spidey's film, both first time aperances of popular characters on major films broke records. In 2005, Batman wasn't the phenomenon he was in the late 80's or early 90's. Batman Begins' job was to resurrect and reintroduce the character to a new generation, and it pad off, with TDK making a billion dollars, just 3 years later. I still remember going to a store in 2005, and the cashier lady was talking to her co worker, and she asked her if she had seen the new Batman film, and the co worker said, nah...I don't think I will. The cashier lady was like, it's actually good, go see it.
A lot of factors did affect this film. The bad quality for one hurt this movie financially, because repeat viewing is what made films like JW, Avengers, and Fast 7 so popular, but clearly, most people aren't interested in seeing this film multiple times. The bad reviews really hurt BVS as well. The other factor was MOS's failure to connect with the audience, but again, had this film gotten a 97% on RT, and it was a fun, satisfying film that keeps bringing people back for more, it would have made a lot more easily. It has nothing to do with the share universe being old news, since AOU, as disappointing as it was, still made it to the top 10 of all time.
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