Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

Collector Freaks Forum

Help Support Collector Freaks Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
For me, I can see why the film might not be to everyone's tastes, but I certainly don't see it as a badly made film. And I don't know how anyone else can.

I personally had no issues with any glaring pot holes or any pacing problems. I know my comics. I understood it. It's not a bad film what so ever. It's just not to everyone's tastes.

It's just one of those that is 'cool to hate'

When some things get popular, they suddenly become bad and no one likes them.
 
I know. I still think it's ********, though, and I feel like, maybe not all of them, but, at least, some of them failed to do their jobs, because, ultimately, you're supposed to be objective, and I failed to see that..

For me, I can see why the film might not be to everyone's tastes, but I certainly don't see it as a badly made film. And I don't know how anyone else can.
There are a lot of unfair accusations being tossed around here. Even if you cannot empathize with the reviewers, I don't think it should be so hard to believe that the bulk of critical reviewers just think this is a bad movie. Like everyone else here, I've got opinions on some movies that are not the consensus view, but I'm not delusional. Others just don't always share my opinions. And that's. . .OK.



If you love this movie, nothing the critics think should change that. But their collective opinion is valid. Sticking your head in the sand about it isn't going to change the world. Embrace reality! Embrace knowledge!

ABhawc2.gif
 
There are a lot of unfair accusations being tossed around here. Even if you cannot empathize with the reviewers, I don't think it should be so hard to believe that the bulk of critical reviewers just think this is a bad movie. Like everyone else here, I've got opinions on some movies that are not the consensus view, but I'm not delusional. Others just don't always share my opinions. And that's. . .OK.



If you love this movie, nothing the critics think should change that. But their collective opinion is valid. Sticking your head in the sand about it isn't going to change the world. Embrace reality! Embrace knowledge!

ABhawc2.gif


I fail to see how any of the accusations are unfair. I even acknowledged that many do have valid critiques, but if you can tell me with absolute certainty that you don't think any of the critics who dog piled it didn't at least have their minds partially made up prior to its release, then I'm not the only one with his head in the sand.

I mean, you just said in the Suicide Squad thread that Hulk gets a bad rap for defying genre conventions (I agree, by the way), you don't think the same could be said for BvS? To clarify, I'm not the one saying it would have an 80% if we lived in an unbiased world; that was the other guy, I'm simply saying "can you look at that 29%" and say it's completely well deserved?
 
Yes, it is well deserved, because that's their legitimate opinions. Same with Hulk. I think some people are unfair, but I acknowledge that I'm in the minority, and I am not going to say that I can't understand how they can say what they say. I understand it. It's fair. I disagree. No harm, no foul.

Everyone on the earth is biased. So what?
 
Yes, it is well deserved, because that's their legitimate opinions. Same with Hulk. I think some people are unfair, but I acknowledge that I'm in the minority, and I am not going to say that I can't understand how they can say what they say. I understand it. It's fair. I disagree. No harm, no foul.

Everyone on the earth is biased. So what?

How are they "legitimate" opinions, though? What makes them valid? Again, I feel the need to reiterate, I'm purely speaking of those who allow their preconceptions to inform their feelings about a film. I could look at a chunk of Halva and mistake it for Peanut Butter Fudge. You take a bite, and, in that context, you'll probably think it tastes like ****, because it's not what you were expecting, but does that make it bad?
 
If what you were expecting was simply a well told story, then yes, it's just a bad candy bar. The mood issue is a big problem, but not the only or even primary one many reviewers seem to have.

But let's put reviewers totally out of the equation. If you want to think they're all terribly biased against something that defies MCU conventions, or if you think they're paid off by Disney, or whatever, then fine. Assume that's true. What about user reviews? Cinemascore, which is a bit more "objective" than online ratings undertaken by those with strong opinions, rates this as a solid B. Same as Catwoman. Same as Green Lantern. I entered a smattering of comic movie titles into their search, from MCU to X-Men to the Nolan films, and didn't find any recent ones in my quick search apart from Jonah Hex that got less than a B+. That includes Wolverine: Origins and X3.

So, are you also saying audience opinions are too biased and unfair?

This is reality. Sometimes it ain't pretty, but it is what it is.
 
I'm not sure audience opinions are as bad as the narrative suggests. I know way more people who like the movie than didn't. With the exception of literally 2-3 people the ones I know who really hate it are people I've only come across online.

It's certainly not universally beloved by the masses, but it appears the general reception was at least decent to good. I feel like the 70-75% "approval rating" among audiences is a pretty accurate reflection of how the film was received. It's certainly hard to reconcile with its critical drubbing and that insane RT number. Those are clearly not a barometer of how audiences reacted to the movie.

It wasn't a Home Run. But it wasn't a Strike Out, either. More like a solid Double (or Triple if you factor in profits). And that's fine. Try for the HR again next time.
 
If what you were expecting was simply a well told story, then yes, it's just a bad candy bar. The mood issue is a big problem, but not the only or even primary one many reviewers seem to have.

But let's put reviewers totally out of the equation. If you want to think they're all terribly biased against something that defies MCU conventions, or if you think they're paid off by Disney, or whatever, then fine. Assume that's true. What about user reviews? Cinemascore, which is a bit more "objective" than online ratings undertaken by those with strong opinions, rates this as a solid B. Same as Catwoman. Same as Green Lantern. I entered a smattering of comic movie titles into their search, from MCU to X-Men to the Nolan films, and didn't find any recent ones in my quick search apart from Jonah Hex that got less than a B+. That includes Wolverine: Origins and X3.

So, are you also saying audience opinions are too biased and unfair?

This is reality. Sometimes it ain't pretty, but it is what it is.

I think the Disney bribery stuff is ludicrous, but I do not think that it's ludicrous to believe that their own personal biases can infect their reviews. I don't have a problem with people having biases, what I have a problem with is people who fail to separate those biases from the job they're paid to do. As for user reviews, I won't dispute that, for the most part, but I will say that I believe critics hold some sway over the way that falls, too. The fact is that people put stock into what these people say. I'm guilty of it; otherwise, I probably wouldn't be having this conversation with you right now, and I feel like the critics reviews can be a "primer" of sorts.

It's the same reason I can't pick my favorite movie of all time. It's too subjective, and my choice will, ultimately, vary based on how I'm feeling at the time. I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that some people might read a review talking about how depressing a film is, or how incoherent it is, and allow that to inform preconceptions that may influence their feelings on the film.
 
Well like I posted before, we all have biases. You suggest the bias is against the tone and style. There's some of that. I hold that bias. But the movie is a jumbled mess to many, and that's a problem no matter if you've got Snyder or Whedon (as with Age of Ultron) at the helm. Plus various other issues discussed ad nauseum in this thread.

Some have used the RT score to validate their opinions. Others like you have used it to critique the critics. I just see it as what I believe it to be--the honest critical consensus, made up of some who were never going to like it, some who were going to love it no matter what, and others in-between, just like the group posting in this thread. But I think it is accurate. There are political candidates out there who I find terribly offensive, but a large minority of people love. Are those people largely ignorant to important issues? Are they thinking too shortsightedly? Are they not making good judgments? I think so. But I also acknowledge their opinions as valid for that group, and admit that those opinions are real. That's ultimately the argument I'm trying to make here. We don't have to agree with the opinions of others to acknowledge their validity. To get back to your earlier question, the only invalid opinions are those that are disingenuous. Not everyone uses full information in making opinions, some embrace bias more than others, some are more offensive than others, even. But that doesn't mean they aren't valid. And I don't see that as being a huge issue here. Bias is ALWAYS part of the equation.

To Irishjedi, I don't disagree with you. Audiences didn't hate it. But they didn't love it on balance, and I think the critical reaction is comparable. Critics are by their nature more discerning and, well, critical. But I don't think most critics hated BVS, either. They just didn't love it, and many didn't even like it. But I don't think they hated it on the aggregate. The Metacritic score of 44 (out of 100) seems the better way to think of the critical consensus. Like you say, maybe next time it will be better. I hope they will try to shoot for that, and to do so by making some structural changes, rather than just minor cosmetic ones (e.g., having the news reporter comment that a battle takes place on an unpopulated island). And one way of doing that might, counter-intuitively, be by simply ignoring critical comments and/or conventional expectations to a greater extent than they have in the past! Sticking so much into Batman V Superman at the expense of focusing on the simple relationship between Bats, Supes, and Luthor, for the purpose of apparently setting up Justice League, may well have been the source of a lot of problems folks have here.
 
I fail to see how any of the accusations are unfair. I even acknowledged that many do have valid critiques, but if you can tell me with absolute certainty that you don't think any of the critics who dog piled it didn't at least have their minds partially made up prior to its release, then I'm not the only one with his head in the sand.

I mean, you just said in the Suicide Squad thread that Hulk gets a bad rap for defying genre conventions (I agree, by the way), you don't think the same could be said for BvS? To clarify, I'm not the one saying it would have an 80% if we lived in an unbiased world; that was the other guy, I'm simply saying "can you look at that 29%" and say it's completely well deserved?

There is no doubt to me the critics piled on after the initial wave of bad reviews- it would be unfashionable if some brave critic came out and gave it a good review- and the ones that did were even atttacked as not real reviews from a real legit critical source (ie Variety).

The critical lambasting of this movie is "in" as far as I'm concerned- the harsher the better is how it feels.

I don't give a d*** about bad reviews but I can see how it affected drawing a potential bigger audience to the film and made WB shareholders nevous for the FUTURE films being planned.
I expect the same reaction to SS unfortunately
 
Man, I hope not. You would think most of those folks would have gotten the bile out of their system with BvS. If not, then that's pretty scary, actually. :lol

Actually I'm hoping if SS is good they will feel bad to the whipping they gave BvS and actually... shudder .... give an honest review! :yess:
 
kara and Irish with the homerun.

But what batfan just said is very true, comic book reading people I know who refused to see it based soley on RT. :slap

Dummies. :lol
 
I've pretty much come to hate the current "system" of critical movie reviews. We were talking recently about how 20 years ago it was just the national critics (Siskel, Ebert, Shalit, Siegel, even that dope Maltin) and whoever your local newspaper reviewer was. And you could pretty much use whoever your favorite national reviewer was (mine was always Ebert) and then maybe your local guy and you became so familiar with what they liked compared to your preferences you could use their critiques as a barometer for what *you* might like.

Ebert was always great at saying things like "Batman Forever was all spectacle, had a really uneven pace the story jumped around, kids will probably like it more than adults but Kilmer, Carrey, and the visuals were still great. 2.5 out of 4 stars but I'm still giving it a thumbs up for the things it got right." Now all these damn algorithms and ratings charts would go "2.5 out of 4? Rotten. Everyone says that. 25%. Terrible movie."

We don't have a critic or two that we know by name that has some real insight on what we might enjoy as individuals. All that matters is the damn "score" that's a hodgepodge of hundreds upon hundreds of outright idiots. Total idiots are making or breaking films from a critical point of view when we only ever really need to listen to one, maybe two of them depending on who shares our tastes in film. Yes RT has "Top Critics" (which should be the ONLY ONES on the site if you ask me) but even those are too many and tend to yield to hive mentality with their averages as well.
 
Actually I'm hoping if SS is good they will feel bad to the whipping they gave BvS and actually... shudder .... give an honest review! :yess:

Nah. They'll never walk back their complete hatred of BvS now. Because credibility for a lot of them (especially the bloggers YouTube dorks) is already on thin ice as it is.

Then again, as I noted in another thread, many of them now somehow claim to have liked MAN OF STEEL. :lol
 
Is there any kind of customizable function on RT? It would be cool if you could make yourself a list of critics you like and get an individualized Meter based on those critics.
 
Is there any kind of customizable function on RT? It would be cool if you could make yourself a list of critics you like and get an individualized Meter based on those critics.

That would be cool, but they wouldn't do that because then the power is in the hands of the end users, instead of the majority of bloggers who provide them with their reviews and scores.
 
Back
Top