Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

[jye4ever]

Yeah but olbert also made some great points himself.

Cheers to both nerds.

 

[bboy]

and to be honest I don't think many people are interested in superman anyway. No offense to superman fans, but maybe man of steel didn't do amazingly well because superman has become a boring character in most people's eyes. Or maybe I'm wrong, but that's just the vibe I get. Snyder was at least making a story. Sorry but the old superman movies were a product of their time. If you had superman smiling saving kittens from trees I don't think it would go over much better than bvs. I don't know superman though so who knows you Snyder haters are probably right.

 

[crows]

Been saying since day one, i dnt really give a Damn about What some defines as the ultimate original Perfect Supes from the comics or whatever. I like the take im seeing in the movie without any preconceived ideas.
Waiting to see where they are going with their take not screaming at them that they are wrong because Supes must be That and not that.

So u want a superman in name only. And thats ok.
Thats fine, thats like being a fan of a batman that is a real vampire that needs to feed on blood, that exists and has its fans.

But DO NOT.... DO NOT DARE tell me you are " surprised and shocked at the negative reaction and backlash from the people that wanted a better more faithful representation.

 

[Sevreed]

Been saying since day one, i dnt really give a Damn about What some defines as the ultimate original Perfect Supes from the comics or whatever.
I like the take im seeing in the movie without any preconceived ideas.

And that's fine, but don't be surprised or get mad when people who have loved Superman since they were kids and grew up with him don't like what Snyder is doing to a character that gave them something to look up to. Especially when there are other characters out there that fill the need for "gritty realism". If someone went to a Metallica concert and they decided to play Irish folk music for the entire concert, do you think that it would be the fans fault for having preconceived notions if they were disappointed? Some of the people who attended might be Irish folk music fans and dig it but overall it would be a huge disservice to most everyone else.

 

[jye4ever]

But is olbert really being that unreasonable understanding Superman, maybe for him Superman sacrificing himself to kill the cave troll was Superman enough.

Maybe the better analogy would be going to a Metallica concert expecting songs from your favorite album of theirs but they only play songs from another album you don't like.

But maybe olbert was at the same concert and he loved the songs they played.

It's still Metallica though.

 

[Prime Clone]

Audiences these days are more sophisticated, savvy and cynical. It makes sense that such weighty themes as "Does the world need a Superman?" are being explored. The trend started as early as Superman Returns. As bboy noted, people nowadays just would't swallow the do-gooding boy scout of the Reeve era.

Also, the general trend of making heroes flawed and "human" holds true here too. It gives Supes more depth to show him finding his feet and unsure of his destiny in the face of an increasingly hostile world.

CW is quite dark too, with Cap struggling to remain the idealistic all-American hero he was meant to be.

 

[crows]

and to be honest I don't think many people are interested in superman anyway. No offense to superman fans, but maybe man of steel didn't do amazingly well because superman has become a boring character in most people's eyes. Or maybe I'm wrong, but that's just the vibe I get. Snyder was at least making a story. Sorry but the old superman movies were a product of their time. If you had superman smiling saving kittens from trees I don't think it would go over much better than bvs. I don't know superman though so who knows you Snyder haters are probably right.

U can say the exact same thing about captain america.....in fact Cap is never been as famous as supetman, no one gave a crap about iron man actually.
The iron man in the movies is not like the comics.

Im NOT a marvel fan, im not a captain fan. I never really cared for him, never a mega fan of avengers, yet i can see how they did well by them. How they did justice by their characters.

The captain of the movies and the iron man of the movies didnt make anyone rage. Yet they are very different.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I'm just glad Batman didn't get raped in BVS.

You could call it "high-brow" comics, but to me, that comic book was just pretty sexy! I had a buddy who tried getting me into "normal" comic books, but I was all like, "No one is having sex or killing each other. This isn’t really doing it for me." I was a little broken, that way. So when Watchmen came along, I was, "This is more my scene."

Everyone says that about [Christopher Nolan’s] Batman Begins. "Batman’s dark." I’m like, okay, "No, Batman’s cool." He gets to go to a Tibetan monastery and be trained by ninjas. Okay? I want to do that. But he doesn’t, like, get raped in prison. That could happen in my movie. If you want to talk about dark, that’s how that would go. - Zack Snyder

https://cdn.ampproject.org/c/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2016/5/2/11565932/zack-snyder-justice-league

 

[jye4ever]

Audiences these days are more sophisticated, savvy and cynical. It makes sense that such weighty themes as "Does the world need a Superman?" are being explored. The trend started as early as Superman Returns. People nowadays just would't swallow the do-gooding boy scout of the Reeve era.

Also, the general trend of making heroes flawed and "human" holds true here too. It gives Supes more depth to show him finding his feet and unsure of his destiny in the face of an increasingly hostile world.

CW is quite dark too, with Cap struggling to remain the idealistic all-American hero he was meant to be.

I was about to say that i'm curious how a full on boy scout Superman would be perceived by society (audience) post 911, post outing of sexual abuse on children by the catholic church and during a distrust of authority and government being at an even higher level than during the vietnam hippe era until I remembered that the failure of happy Superman Returns lead to this darker reboot!

The ending of AOU with Sokovia being lifted up into the sky reminded me of Superman Returns with him lifting that huge piece of land mass.

 

[chewblacca]

So what happens when Superman comes back? The world loves him until there is another city destroying fight? Then what does he do when they turn against him then? Go off in the frozen mountains talks to his dead father again and sacrifices himself once more? Or does he try and turn them around by being the hero Jor-el promised in MOS?

 

[karamazov80]

These interviews don't surprise me very much. I think the movies reflect that odd, really juvenile perspective masquerading as something with more maturity and weight. Very curious to see how and why Batman gets raped in JL.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Very curious to see how and why Batman gets raped in JL.

 

[karamazov80]

Wonder Woman certainly has the means. And the motive. I can see it.

 

[crows]

But is olbert really being that unreasonable understanding Superman, maybe for him Superman sacrificing himself to kill the cave troll was Superman enough.

Maybe the better analogy would be going to a Metallica concert expecting songs from your favorite album of theirs but they only play songs from another album you don't like.

But maybe olbert was at the same concert and he loved the songs they played.

It's still Metallica though.

Thats an incomplete example.

It is more like expecting metallica to play metal like they have always done,

But metallica coming up with a weird album of a mixture of tock/ jazz/ country and saying they added jazz " for the fans"

And saying that metal is boring and that jazz is much more exciting and not as lame and expect those metal fans to love the jazz version.


Such example already EXISTS in real life. I present to you, lulu, the most hated metallica project ever made:

 

[Darkseed]

Does the world need a Superman?.

No.....

I think the character is dated therefore, I understand Synder's approach but damn man....he needs some redeeming qualities people can get behind and support. I've watched two of these films and for the most part Supes is an unlikable duchebag. Bats on the other hand had me at running towards the chaos saving, losing people...I wanted him to kick Supes ass....

 

[YoNoSe]

These interviews don't surprise me very much. I think the movies reflect that odd, really juvenile perspective masquerading as something with more maturity and weight. Very curious to see how and why Batman gets raped in JL.

You remind me of something I read and I can't for the life of me remember where. But it said something to effect of "Frank Miller isn't writing "mature" material. He is writing a 12-year-old's idea of mature material."

While I'm not well-versed in Miller outside of Batman and Sin City that quote rings true for me. As much as I loved The Dark Knight Returns when I read it as a teenager, and still love it as a landmark in both comics and my own awareness of the diversity therein, I can't help but re-read it with a sense of "aw shucks" at the broody cynicism.

I don't mean that as negatively as it probably comes off. But there are other comics that hold up and even reveal more depth the older I get.

I've got some conflicting feels about BvS but the more i think about it the more I think that's not the worst thing that could happen. If this hits someone at the right age, or just in the right part of their life, it could open doors to comics and films that really delve into the ideas that float on the surface here. Maybe one day those people will look back on it and be struck by how simplistic it is by comparison. But they won't forget the high they got off the gateway drug.

Or maybe not.

 

[Sevreed]

I was about to say that i'm curious how a full on boy scout Superman would be perceived by society (audience) post 911, post outing of sexual abuse on children by the catholic church and during a distrust of authority and government being at an even higher level than during the vietnam hippe era until I remembered that the failure of happy Superman Returns lead to this darker reboot!

The ending of AOU with Sokovia being lifted up into the sky reminded me of Superman Returns with him lifting that huge piece of land mass.

Did you read any Superman comics from the post crisis, pre new 52 era? Have you watched any of the Bruce Timm Superman animated series? Superman can be good, inspiring, powerful and smart without being a perfect Boy Scout, it can be done.
And bad writing a crappy story and bad casting lead to another reboot. I don't want a Reeves clone but I also don't want a dim, depressed screw up either.

 

[karamazov80]

You remind me of something I read and I can't for the life of me remember where. But it said something to effect of "Frank Miller isn't writing "mature" material. He is writing a 12-year-old's idea of mature material."

While I'm not well-versed in Miller outside of Batman and Sin City that quote rings true for me. As much as I loved The Dark Knight Returns when I read it as a teenager, and still love it as a landmark in both comics and my own awareness of the diversity therein, I can't help but re-read it with a sense of "aw shucks" at the broody cynicism.

I don't mean that as negatively as it probably comes off. But there are other comics that hold up and even reveal more depth the older I get.

With some of Miller's work, I would agree with that. Particularly more recent ('90s on). Dark Knight Returns was the first real hint of that, and his later work became a caricature of that iconic work of his. But on the other hand, he has been responsible for some of the best comic stories I've read to be honest. Smart, sophisticated, complex stuff that isn't remotely juvenile. Particularly Batman: Year One and his work on Daredevil. That stuff holds up and compares favorably to anything else out there, barring maybe some Alan Moore or Neil Gaiman stuff. The "Born Again" DD story is amazing.

 

[YoNoSe]

With some of Miller's work, I would agree with that. Particularly more recent ('90s on). Dark Knight Returns was the first real hint of that, and his later work became a caricature of that iconic work of his. But on the other hand, he has been responsible for some of the best comic stories I've read to be honest. Smart, sophisticated, complex stuff that isn't remotely juvenile. Particularly Batman: Year One and his work on Daredevil. That stuff holds up and compares favorably to anything else out there, barring maybe some Alan Moore or Neil Gaiman stuff. The "Born Again" DD story is amazing.

The reason I added the caveat to my post was that I have never read his Daredevil stuff. And I frankly forgot that he wrote Year One which I would absolutely agree with you on.

 

[Prime Clone]

until I remembered that the failure of happy Superman Returns led to this darker reboot!

Again, the bar for "success" must be higher for Supes than Bats, since SR grossed slightly more than BB.

The ending of AOU with Sokovia being lifted up into the sky reminded me of Superman Returns with him lifting that huge piece of land mass.

Yeah, me too