Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

[IrishJedi]

There's always AOTC.

Hmm.... Good point.

 

[jye4ever]

I know that ROTS is usually viewed as a step up in quality from AOTC, but not for me.

Both are equally awful.

 

[crows]

I don't quite follow how you equate a dark movie with Superman's "devolution"...

Mos ended on a kind of hopeful note. Yes he killed zod and feel horrible about it,
But at the end of mos he was starting his new job, was starting a new life in metropolis, was starting his relationship with louis. And he just saved the world and gained the respect of the soldiers and most of the people in the city.

Technically a follow up to mos would have dealt with some of that. Not sure how u go from such a hopeful note on the end of mos to such a moody and annoyed superman in bvs.
Not only did they not keep with the hope clark had, but they basically made him moody and annoyed for all of bvs.

And part of the fault for doing this was the stupid 2 year jump in the movie.


By zack and goyer skipping 2 years in the future, they robbed us of any of the follow ups on any of the hopeful stuff at the end of mos. We never really got to see how superman adapted to his job or new life, we never saw if superman helped clean up the city. They should have continued instead of that erratic time jump.


So mos started with a troubled clark, it ended in somewhat a hopful note with clark in his new life.

Then we get to bvs where not only is he moody again but he gets more moody and annoyed as the movie passes.....

There is no evolution.... Like i said, at least in mos he enjoyed being alive and having powers for a couple of scenes.
We get zero of that in bvs.
All because goyer doesnt understand how to do a positive character.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Thank god he's dead and gone.

 

[jye4ever]

Mos ended on a kind of hopeful note. Yes he killed zod and feel horrible about it,
But at the end of mos he was starting his new job, was starting a new life in metropolis, was starting his relationship with louis. And he just saved the world and gained the respect of the soldiers and most of the people in the city.

Technically a follow up to mos would have dealt with some of that. Not sure how u go from such a hopeful note on the end of mos to such a moody and annoyed superman in bvs.
Not only did they not keep with the hope clark had, but they basically made him moody and annoyed for all of bvs.

And part of the fault for doing this was the stupid 2 year jump in the movie.


By zack and goyer skipping 2 years in the future, they robbed us of any of the follow ups on any of the hopeful stuff at the end of mos. We never really got to see how superman adapted to his job or new life, we never saw if superman helped clean up the city. They should have continued instead of that erratic time jump.


So mos started with a troubled clark, it ended in somewhat a hopful note with clark in his new life.

Then we get to bvs where not only is he moody again but he gets more moody and annoyed as the movie passes.....

There is no evolution.... Like i said, at least in mos he enjoyed being alive and having powers for a couple of scenes.
We get zero of that in bvs.
All because goyer doesnt understand how to do a positive character.

I like the movie and this is hard to argue against.

He went from MOS scared kid to MOS confused kid to MOS conflicted adult to MOS angry adult to MOS cautious but with a positive outlook adult to BvS super freaking conflicted and moody again.

 

[crows]

I like the movie and this is hard to argue against.

He went from MOS scared kid to MOS confused kid to MOS conflicted adult to MOS angry adult to MOS cautious but with a positive outlook adult to BvS super freaking conflicted and moody again.

It is because of the terrible time jump.
Rises has the exact same problem. Both rises and bvs robs the audience of a lot of development that can explain why both characters are the way they are.

(We are told bruce Wayne worked on the energy program but we needed to see that. ) i have always hated that time jump.

So one could argue that clark lost that little bit of optimism he had at the end of mos in the 2 years that passed, but thats something that hurts the character because by not showing us what happened to make him moody again or doubtful of his role in the world then it looks like be, well,
Devolved.

 

[Sevreed]

Being moody, annoyed and unsure isn't character development, it's being a teenager. You might like this Superman but I'd rather have a Superman that's sure of himself, intelligent and gives the world something to aspire to. I liked MOS because I can see where he was still learning and the krytonians were a crazy huge threat so I can understand him making a bunch of mistakes and seeing him still finding his groove. By Batman v Superman I was hoping for the more complete Superman. Somehow he became less heroic and more dour. What's really weird is that this felt more like Punisher v Sentry because Snyder is trying to make a almost Watchmen version of these characters.
I have to ask fans of this movie, would you be cool with a Batman that uses guns like The Punisher?

 

[Prime Clone]

I know that ROTS is usually viewed as a step up in quality from AOTC, but not for me.

Both are equally awful.

I'm no doubt in the minority (around these parts, at least), but Ep I was the worst for me. I felt the prequels improved with each episode, to the point where ROTS was in the same league as ROTJ.

I reckon it's a view more widely held beyond these fora.

You might like this Superman but I'd rather have a Superman that's sure of himself, intelligent and gives the world something to aspire to.

But when you do that and it gets thrown back in your face, it makes you question your priorities. I like the questions raised by BvS, even if others didn't.

 

[crows]

Being moody, annoyed and unsure isn't character development, it's being a teenager. You might like this Superman but I'd rather have a Superman that's sure of himself, intelligent and gives the world something to aspire to. I liked MOS because I can see where he was still learning and the krytonians were a crazy huge threat so I can understand him making a bunch of mistakes and seeing him still finding his groove. By Batman v Superman I was hoping for the more complete Superman. Somehow he became less heroic and more dour. What's really weird is that this felt more like Punisher v Sentry because Snyder is trying to make a almost Watchmen version of these characters.
I have to ask fans of this movie, would you be cool with a Batman that uses guns like The Punisher?

The reason i defended my like for mos, was because i thought snyder was going to follow up on giving us a more traditional superman in the next one


I did see glimpses of hope that clark was going to become more mature. But snyder never had that plan. He was never going to do that

Which is why it always baffles me why i think of the actors or snyder saying how they did it for the fans

 

[olbertfrog]

"No one stays good in this world"
Never tought i would hear this words in Superman s mouth.
And i find this awesome.

Snyder is not doing a Wachmen version, he ´s doing his version.
Wich is quite something in nowadays studios blockbusters models

The whole "earth doubting Supes" angle is done by the end of the movie.
The next time we see Supes he Will be loved by everyone and Will have no more reason to be conflicted an all.
He has redeemed himself for What some judge him responsible.
Im sure hes gonna become the Supes people love and that is What Snyder and co had in mind.
There is always dark before the light

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

"No one stays good in this world"

Hopeman is so optimistic in that film.

 

[olbertfrog]

Well our world is ******.
And he got feeded a handfull.
If i was him i would go Dr Manhattan on us.
Take lois and go make babies in another universe.

 

[jye4ever]

Superman IV makes Superman III look like a masterpiece of film..

Man is that the truth.

 

[crows]

Well our world is ******.
And he got feeded a handfull.
If i was him i would go Dr Manhattan on us.
Take lois and go make babies in another universe.

And you would not be... Superman.....

You would just be dr manhattan. Thats the problem. You just proved that BvS IS watchmen 2.0
Because you said it yourself,
A normal person would have gone dr manhattan the second they had to deal with our world,

Thats the entire f g point of superman.... How he is NOT the every man. He is not only "super" because he can fly. Not just because he can lift a boat..........
Come on now
Im not even a superman fan and i know this.........

"No one stays good in this world"
Never tought i would hear this words in Superman s mouth.
And i find this awesome.



The whole "earth doubting Supes" angle is done by the end of the movie.
The next time we see Supes he Will be loved by everyone and Will have no more reason to be conflicted an all.
He has redeemed himself for What some judge him responsible.
Im sure hes gonna become the Supes people love and that is What Snyder and co had in mind.
There is always dark before the light

Thats your own speculation and positive expectations but there is no basis for that. Theres nothing that proves thats where this is going.

In fact the movie FLAT OUT TELLS U by flash that if anything happens to louis superman will go full zod and take everything down.....


Thats what we have to go with.. Theres nothing to suggest we will get a happy positive superman because THATS NOT WHAT SNYDER DOES OR HAS EVER DONE

If anything we might get a injustice superman that joins whoever comes to earth


To suggest zombie superman will be a positive guy is naive and contradictory to the real hints the movie gives.

 

[crows]

Besides dr manhattan stumbled upon his powers at an adult age after an accident.

Superman WAS BORN with his powers... He grew up getting used to them and grew up on a farm learning to be human..

He knows how messy our world is and he can look past that and see the best of humanity

The best of humanity, something goyer and maybe snyder will probably never understand about superman.

Which is why this franchise fails.

 

[bboy]

"No one stays good in this world"
Never tought i would hear this words in Superman s mouth.
And i find this awesome.

Snyder is not doing a Wachmen version, he ´s doing his version.
Wich is quite something in nowadays studios blockbusters models

The whole "earth doubting Supes" angle is done by the end of the movie.
The next time we see Supes he Will be loved by everyone and Will have no more reason to be conflicted an all.
He has redeemed himself for What some judge him responsible.
Im sure hes gonna become the Supes people love and that is What Snyder and co had in mind.
There is always dark before the light

agreed, you have to remember supes was only here for a couple of years. They started this story in the first one and ended it in the end of this one.

 

[Sevreed]

Well our world is ******.
And he got feeded a handfull.
If i was him i would go Dr Manhattan on us.
Take lois and go make babies in another universe.

Then Superman is not for you. And that's not a crack either. I think you can relate more to Miracle Man, Dr. Manhattan or the Sentry and that's cool but Superman is supposed to be the very best of us. I think Snyder's own preferences are the same in that they lean toward a cynical view of almost everything.

 

[olbertfrog]

Does Superman fly away and leave everyone?
No he fight still the end. And saves the world again.
So no hes not Manhattan, hes doing the opposite.
Fights for humanity even if it rejects him.
Hés not the clean cut Perfect superman and that is What makes him interesting.
You got the comics, the anime, the donner flicks if you want a ready to use Supes.
This one gonna have to earn his name.

Yeah if Supes loses lois he might loses it completely.
But i might be naïve as you say but maybe, just maybe the whole point be to avoid that.

I dont want a happy positive Supes grinning stupidely, What these heroes Will do to save the planet Will have a cost.
And i have no problem seeing the consequences of that on their persona.
His sacrifice already pushed Batman toward the light, im sure it Will inspire more good too.
Well even if it keeps in the exact same vein would be fine for me coz im not interested in Supes per se.
I just like What Snyder does with the franchise, if he was random powerfull alien Joe id be in too.

It is What it is.
Take it or leave it.

 

[olbertfrog]

Then Superman is not for you. And that's not a crack either. I think you can relate more to Miracle Man, Dr. Manhattan or the Sentry and that's cool but Superman is supposed to be the very best of us. I think Snyder's own preferences are the same in that they lean toward a cynical view of almost everything.

Been saying since day one, i dnt really give a Damn about What some defines as the ultimate original Perfect Supes from the comics or whatever. I like the take im seeing in the movie without any preconceived ideas.
Waiting to see where they are going with their take not screaming at them that they are wrong because Supes must be That and not that.

 

[kryptonianmutie]

And you would not be... Superman.....

You would just be dr manhattan. Thats the problem. You just proved that BvS IS watchmen 2.0
Because you said it yourself,
A normal person would have gone dr manhattan the second they had to deal with our world,

Thats the entire f g point of superman.... How he is NOT the every man. He is not only "super" because he can fly. Not just because he can lift a boat..........
Come on now

Great points made here.