Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

Collector Freaks Forum

Help Support Collector Freaks Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Really quite interested to see how I feel about the extended cut. Not too long now until I'll be able to get my hands on the Blu Ray.


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
 
tumblr_oavnkaoZ6o1rc3ou3o1_540.jpg
:lol
 
The beginning is the best part... I really enjoy the film up until Luther kidnaps Superman's mother... Then the film just gets kinda dumb.. I should love it as it is when the action kicks in but it just fails to grab me and much of that has to do with Superman being a reluctant hero all movie long and Batman being a **** all movie long.. I just have trouble getting into the Superhero part of the Superhero movie.

I have no problem with Batman being a ****. To me he's always been a bit "off" as a hero and I think it's cool to see how he behaves when something pushes him completely over the edge. Because even as an "unhinged" anti-hero in BvS he *still* isn't just a straight Punisher. I don't see him seeking out criminals for the sole purpose of executing them. He's stopping/preventing crimes and uses lethal force if necessary. As far as his tactics he really isn't that far removed from Russo Cap in that regard. Yes Cap has a license to kill in the MCU so that makes his actions legal compared to Bruce but still, the actions themselves are pretty much the same.

Cap dragged a helpless HYDRA agent next to his motorcycle during the opening of AOU and then threw the poor guy into a group of his buddies before later throwing his own motorcycle at an entire jeep full of bad guys, killing them all. I don't see how that's any different in end result than Batman towing the car and tossing it into another car. Yes one is a vigilante and technically committing homicides from a legal point of view but Batman is still just a good guy killing bad guys in a movie. If we're going to cry fowl at that then we better cry fowl at all of his traffic violations, property damage, assault and battery, etc., and just end the character completely. Point is, he's always been morally grey and we count him a "hero" as long as his grey tactics are aimed at bad guys.

Superman did indeed have the poorest showing in the film (which only heightens the silliness of such an epic double funeral) and if he was my favorite superhero and I always wanted him to have that Chris Reeve goodness, strength of character, ironclad convictions, etc., then yeah I'd be pretty pissed at how he was portrayed too. But if I take this movie as it's own self-contained thing that says here's a confused guy with Superman's power set then I think it becomes more interesting to see how it all plays out. I don't see Superman in the Snyderverse as an inspiring hero but rather a surrogate for any person who has a lot of power and means well but is struggling with how to use that power most effectively. I didn't think he "hated being a hero" as people have liked to suggest but rather got to the point where every time he saved someone he dreaded the gravity of the fact that there were others he WASN'T saving. For every Lois there'd be an African woman saying "why didn't he pick my family." For every girl in Mexico he grabbed out of a burning building there'd be x amount of people in other countries weeping and upset that he didn't come for *them.* That's what I got out of his sadness at the Day of the Dead rescue. He didn't hate saving people, he hated the idea of making everyone he didn't save feel left out. And I think that's an interesting idea and a viable ***** in his armor for a crazy like Lex Luthor to exploit.
 
Last edited:

The Martha jokes are funny but I just wonder if people even realize that they're all based on misinterpreting the scene. It was a viable moment that would have rattled Bruce. There's just no denying that. Where are all the memes ripping on Cap for pausing when Crossbones mentioned Bucky? Another viable moment but people just have to dog pile onto BvS.
 
The Martha jokes are funny but I just wonder if people even realize that they're all based on misinterpreting the scene. It was a viable moment that would have rattled Bruce. There's just no denying that. Where are all the memes ripping on Cap for pausing when Crossbones mentioned Bucky? Another viable moment but people just have to dog pile onto BvS.

The idea is wonderful. The execution is dreadful. If Superman had said "please, he has my mother...." that would have given Batman pause. "Martha Kent....please save her..."
Batman: What's her namw?!
Superman: Martha....Martha Kent...
If you need to hammer it home insert flashback.
Batman: Get up.

Not Shakespeare but better than WHY ARE YOU SAYING THAT NAME RAARRRRRR??!!!
 
The Martha jokes are funny but I just wonder if people even realize that they're all based on misinterpreting the scene. It was a viable moment that would have rattled Bruce. There's just no denying that. Where are all the memes ripping on Cap for pausing when Crossbones mentioned Bucky? Another viable moment but people just have to dog pile onto BvS.

I think if you take a step back and read the question you asked you'll see that's comparing two completely different situations.
 
The idea is wonderful. The execution is dreadful. If Superman had said "please, he has my mother...." that would have given Batman pause. "Martha Kent....please save her..."
Batman: What's her namw?!
Superman: Martha....Martha Kent...
If you need to hammer it home insert flashback.
Batman: Get up.

Not Shakespeare but better than WHY ARE YOU SAYING THAT NAME RAARRRRRR??!!!

I don't see how your version differs from what we saw on screen other than you quoting Ben in all caps and adding the "raarrrrr" at the end. :lol
 
I think if you take a step back and read the question you asked you'll see that's comparing two completely different situations.

All I see are two sequences where an opponent rattles a hero by simply mentioning someone's first name, both with a totally believable end result. But one gets twisted and mocked and the other doesn't.
 
All I see are two sequences where an opponent rattles a hero by simply mentioning someone's first name, both with a totally believable end result. But one gets twisted and mocked and the other doesn't.

agreed, the worst part of it is when batman looks around as if the answer is behind him or something ("Whyd you say that name?" and ben quickly jerks his head around looking a bit dumb founded) . but I think the moment and idea were fine and it made perfect sense.
 
All I see are two sequences where an opponent rattles a hero by simply mentioning someone's first name, both with a totally believable end result. But one gets twisted and mocked and the other doesn't.

Sure Khev, I'll play your game. :lol

That's about as generic a comparison between those scenes one person could possibly make while completely ignoring circumstances, motivations and subsequent end result of the rattling moment in the scene.
 
I don't see how your version differs from what we saw on screen other than you quoting Ben in all caps and adding the "raarrrrr" at the end. :lol

Admittedly I'm not a screenwriter but if you seriously think the Martha exchange is anything less than cringeworthy... :dunno

It deserves every meme and then some.
 
What Superman said was a catalyst for change in a man who forgot what he was fighting for. Thematically, it's represented throughout the entire film, both visually and otherwise. The Bat-creature smashing through Martha's memorial and dragging Bruce into the darkness, even the opening of the film; "in the dream, they pull me towards the light; a beautiful lie." We see a man who becomes corrupted by the weapon he forged in the name of justice; disillusioned to the point that he can no longer tell the difference between himself and the criminals he hunts; a man so driven by obsession that he's willing to murder a man in cold blood just because he finds his very existence to be a threat.

I thought the Martha moment was beautifully done, because it portrayed Batman at his absolute worst, and, simultaneously, his most vulnerable. I love the way the fight scene reflects the internal conflict and it's resolution in the film. There he stands, clad entirely in black armor; effectively consumed, completely, by the Batman persona, and I love that, as Superman tries to get through to him, he chips away at the armor, to the point where you can see there's still enough left of Bruce Wayne to break free of this dark, vengeful thing, and it's serendipitous; it's mere chance that their mothers would have the same name, but it reminds him of everything he was fighting for, and everything he's forgotten, and, even, betrayed. I mean, you have to think of it in the context of love. Batman exists because a kid loved his parents and he missed them, but, gradually, it consumes him to the point where he does it more because he hates crime than that he loved his parents, and that's what makes that moment so poignant; it's even more thoughtful when you consider how it honors 75 years of history between the characters.

It's not just something they created from the movie, it's something that's always been there, and something they used to create a powerful connection.
 
Well said batfan, the Martha moment has been way too trivialised by those who don't appreciate its deeper significance.

As a lifetime Batfan myself it was a powerful one (but I knew there'd be many who'd dismiss it on face value).

Also significantly, it frees him from the psychological need to fight petty criminals, so now he can focus on saving the world.
 
Well said batfan, the Martha moment has been way too trivialised by those who don't appreciate its deeper significance.

As a lifetime Batfan myself it was a powerful one (but I knew there'd be many who'd dismiss it on face value).

Also significantly, it frees him from the psychological need to fight petty criminals, so now he can focus on saving the world.

Well, I kind of love that Martha Kent also acted somewhat as a surrogate for redemption, and, in a sense, his do-over. He was just a kid when his mother died, and, effectively, powerless against the mugger who killed his parents. I feel like, in a weird way, he saved her as much for himself as for Clark. Clark actually wanted to get her, but Bruce is insistent that "Martha won't die tonight." In a sense, Clark gave him an opportunity for closure, which, as you said, kind of frees him of that psychological need. That's why I love the direction they're taking with Justice League, because it feels like a natural evolution; a Batman who is, once again, devoted to justice, rather than punishment.
 
Sure Khev, I'll play your game. :lol

That's about as generic a comparison between those scenes one person could possibly make while completely ignoring circumstances, motivations and subsequent end result of the rattling moment in the scene.

And that's exactly my point. The "meme" crowd is "completely ignoring circumstances, motivations and subsequent end result of the rattling moment in the scene" with regard to the Martha moment so why isn't anyone doing the same for Cap? Where are all the memes of various Cap villains saying Bucky and ending every fight like what we're seeing with Batman supposedly befriending everyone with a mom named Martha? The point is you can make any scene seem stupid if you mischaracterize it.
 
Back
Top