Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)
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EVILFACE
Insufferable S.O.B.
and to not be in this film because it was a colossal waste
I think he will be back. I don't think he stayed dead in the comics. They could still do the containment suit bit.
**16k**
Super Freak
Nobody stays dead in a comic... But they have time to bring back people, movies don't
abake
Rex Tremendae Majestatis
Watched the UC again last night with my kids, and I have to say, I find the movie epic.
The characters have depth, the action is brilliant, the cinematography is great, the stakes are high. It's a great movie. I'm really looking forward to how this DCEU evolves moving forward.
The characters have depth, the action is brilliant, the cinematography is great, the stakes are high. It's a great movie. I'm really looking forward to how this DCEU evolves moving forward.
kryptonianmutie
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While not really a fan of the DCEU I think the movies have eclipsed all other superhero flicks in that category.
Yeah, the family and I really dig the UC version as well. Hell, we liked the theatrical version too.
mrdbios
Super Freak
I left after the theatrical version thinking the movie was ok, but not stellar. I even waited a while before seeing the extended cut.
But I have to say the extended cut was much more enjoyable. It's long, but I really like it now.
But I have to say the extended cut was much more enjoyable. It's long, but I really like it now.
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it's longer but goes at the same pace it feels. you're not going "wait what" because everything seems to make more sense.
spindrift
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You are a man of great taste- as I said all along it is a terrific CBM and will stand the test of time...
abake
Rex Tremendae Majestatis
ZombieRepublican
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I'm actually worried for the future movies. WB announced the new movies will have a lighter tone.
The worrying part is that the tone was not the issue, the writing is the problem!
This is from someone who enjoyed the film
The worrying part is that the tone was not the issue, the writing is the problem!
This is from someone who enjoyed the film
Absolutely. If it was a tad better written and cut it'd be a great film.
ZombieRepublican
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Yeah, superman can work in a darker context. I thought he was brilliant in MoS, and any lack of optimism was due to him being a newb, then having to deal with an army of supermen.
Th ending of the movie implied classic Supes. Snyder messed up with his character in BvS. Even Kents motivational speech was dour
Th ending of the movie implied classic Supes. Snyder messed up with his character in BvS. Even Kents motivational speech was dour
thats the biggest problem
superman even smiles at the end of man of steel..... a full smile is the last shot...
we were led to believe classic supes
The Clown Prince of Crime
Super Freak
thats the biggest problem
superman even smiles at the end of man of steel..... a full smile is the last shot...
we were led to believe classic supes
He was smiling and laughing when he was flying for the first time too. He was smiling during the "interrogation" scene and in other scenes as Clark Kent. He wasn't really a dark character at all. The film and the situations had a darker tone than previous Sups films, but not him. He was just trying to find his purpose and his true identify, but other than that Sups and Clark seemed pretty traditional in MOS, imo.
I can't say the same about BVS, unfortunately.
That last scene in MOS is excellent. Love the dialogue, love the acting, love the music. But BvS did not live up to it....at all.
kryptonianmutie
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Yup, love that last scene as well. Unfortunately WB got overzealous with the shared universe building and didn't give us a proper Superman movie for a sequel.
LIBBY1957DOG
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Found this article posted on the shh boards on their lex thread though it might be interesting to some ,and worth reposting here ,
it may go some way to explain why lex was the way he was in the movie
or not ......... maybe he was that way because he was just a big fan of batman forever
My name is Murphy, and I have a neurological disability. This disability — temporal lobe epilepsy — comes with a couple of friends: undiagnosed ADHD and something called Geschwind syndrome. My epilepsy affects my day to day life — not just because of my medication, but because those undiagnosed friends affect who I am as a person. They create parts of my personality, and show in my behavior in social situations — and I see that behavior mirrored in the DCEU‘s version of Lex Luthor.
First, let me say that I don’t mean to imply that Lex necessarily has my disability. But, given his symptoms, he could. He could also have a number of other disorders, and definitely has one I, luckily, do not: Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.
But for the most part, our behaviour and our symptoms mirror each other. Allow me to explain, by taking you on a tour of my brain, and by interpretation and extension, Lex’s:
ATTENTION-DEFICIT HYPERACTIVITY DISORDER
People write this disorder off as ‘overdiagnosed’ or ‘a lack of willpower.’ However, in reality, ADHD exists as an obstacle in many people’s lives, and goes particularly unseen in adults.
Symptom categories include:
Inability to focus
Hyperfocus
Impulsivity
Emotional problems
Hyperactivity/restlessness.
(source: https://www.helpguide.org/articles/ad...t-disorder.htm)
I display all of these, and Lex particularly shows symptoms in the impulsivity, emotional problems, and hyperactivity/restlessness categories.
For impulsivity, listed symptoms include talking over people/interrupting and having trouble behaving in socially appropriate ways.
Lex shows these symptoms in his scenes with Senator Finch, and while on top of LexCorp tower. He invades people’s personal space and dominates conversations. His way of comporting himself obviously makes people uncomfortable, but he doesn’t seem to notice or care.
Emotional problems, for ADHD folks, can include a sense of underachievement, frustration, a hypersensitivity to criticism, and having a short, explosive temper.
Lex displays these symptoms particularly in concert with his abuse trauma. When speaking about his father, or in situations that bring his father to mind, Lex loses what stability he has. He also loses his temper when told no by the senator. Jesse Eisenberg plays these moments beautifully, and this instability creates an undercurrent through the rest of his performance.
Finally, we come to hyperactivity and restlessness. The body language Lex exhibits pretty much speaks for itself. He moves in short, sharp bursts and flurries, and speaks that way too.
Additionally, his speeches very much mirror the jostled and unfocused thought patterns of many ADHD people, including mine. Watching him during his library fundraiser speech actually made me embarrassed, because I realized that that’s what I sound like. My brain works that way, and I know it shows.
Overall, Lex’s behaviour really mirrors an ADHD person, and that really gets to me. However, it’s not the only reason I relate to him.
GESCHWIND SYNDROME
Geschwind Sydrome comes comorbid with temporal lobe epilepsy. First categorized by Norman Geschwind, the syndrome consists of ‘chronic, mild, interictal (i.e. between seizures) changes in personality, which slowly intensify over time.’ Not all Geschwind people show all of the symptoms, of course, but I exhibit most of them.
The five changes:
Hypergraphia — the tendency for extensive and compulsive writing.
Hyperreligiosity — intense religious feelings and ‘philosophical interests’
Atypical sexuality — about half of the people with Geschwind report having a decreased libido.
Circumstantiality — people often speak around the point, but always circle back around to it.
Intensified mental life — ‘deepened cognitive and emotional reactions.’
(sources: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2003418 , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geschwind_syndrome)
Lex Luthor shows the hyper-religiosity, intensified mental life, and circumstantiality symptoms particularly strongly. He fixates on deifying and demonizing Superman, and uses religious metaphors constantly. His ADHD amplifies the circumstantiality somewhat, too.
And as for the intensified mental life?
Lex developed about four different concurrent plans to take down Superman that he could switch between at will. Lex’s genius is probably inextricably linked to how his brain functions so differently from a ‘typical’ brain.
I exhibit hyper-religiosity in the same way that Lex does. For me, I don’t believe very strongly in the reality of ‘God,’ but Christian religious symbolism fascinates me and appears often in my speech and my writing. Circumstantiality also defines a lot of my speech. I talk at length, and because my brain moves the way it does, I add ‘unnecessary’ detail a lot of the time. But, the way my thought processes work, that contextual detail is necessary to understanding the point. And I’ve learned that just because that detail might seem obvious to me, that doesn’t mean it is to other people.
BUT, MURPHY, WHY DOES LEX LUTHOR BEING DISABLED MATTER?
Quite simply, it matters because I’ve never seen any fictional character whose brain works this way. Yes, Lex’s villainy makes him unideal in terms of representation. But for me, seeing him at all is pivotal.
Seeing myself in Lex Luthor, I don’t have to feel alone. And seeing myself in Lex Luthor, I can look at myself more critically. That secondhand embarrassment I feel when Lex has a minor breakdown onstage at his party?
I feel it because I’ve done that. Seeing Lex this way lets me examine my own behavior.
I don’t necessarily think that my disabilities define me any more than being queer or butch do. But I know that without them, I wouldn’t be me.
One thing really bothers me about people’s criticism of Batman v Superman more than anything else. I hate it when people try and say that Lex’s behaviour doesn’t make sense.
Maybe it doesn’t to you. Maybe you don’t deal with the brain stuff that we do.
But when you say that this characterization of Lex Luthor is wrong, or unrealistic, or that people should have seen ‘something wrong’ with Lex sooner…
Basically, you’re telling me that I don’t, or shouldn’t, exist. Nobody noticed that my epilepsy caused these symptoms, or even that these symptoms were pathologizeable as disorders or disabilities. It took me years to even feel comfortable recognizing myself as disabled.
People in Batman v Superman didn’t see something wrong with Lex Luthor for the same reason people don’t see my disabilities: people see them as personality eccentricities or flaws, not as symptoms.
When that crowd of people saw his minor breakdown on stage, they didn’t see a man whose trauma was mixing with his other brain things to render him nearly speechless. They saw a rich, eccentric tech wunderkind with no social skills and maybe a stutter.
And audiences in theatres?
They saw something else: they saw the parts of Lex Luthor that Lex keeps hidden, and those parts aren’t so easily written off — but people do it anyway.
Invalidating the experiences of real-life disabled people — that’s ableism, pure and simple.
I understand that this Lex diverges, superficially, from versions of Lex Luthor that have existed previously. I understand that his behaviour makes people uncomfortable. Hell, I know my behavior can make people uncomfortable.
But Lex gave me a mirror. Don’t underestimate what that means for me.
I realize that people don’t realize the stuff they’re saying is ableist. My disabilities don’t get the airtime that PTSD, anxiety, or depression do. My disabilities don’t get romanticized. My disabilities aren’t pretty or tragic.
But the next time you watch a movie, and a character’s brain doesn’t seem to make sense, I just want you to consider the idea that maybe, just maybe, that character isn’t there for you.
Maybe they’re there for someone like me.
I exist, and deserve to see myself represented in movies. I just want to ask you to be careful the next time you label erratic, restless, or ‘strange’ behavior as ‘unrealistic.’
It might not be your reality, but it might be someone else’s.
https://comiconverse.com/batman-v-sup...x-luthor-13311
it may go some way to explain why lex was the way he was in the movie
or not ......... maybe he was that way because he was just a big fan of batman forever
My name is Murphy, and I have a neurological disability. This disability — temporal lobe epilepsy — comes with a couple of friends: undiagnosed ADHD and something called Geschwind syndrome. My epilepsy affects my day to day life — not just because of my medication, but because those undiagnosed friends affect who I am as a person. They create parts of my personality, and show in my behavior in social situations — and I see that behavior mirrored in the DCEU‘s version of Lex Luthor.
First, let me say that I don’t mean to imply that Lex necessarily has my disability. But, given his symptoms, he could. He could also have a number of other disorders, and definitely has one I, luckily, do not: Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.
But for the most part, our behaviour and our symptoms mirror each other. Allow me to explain, by taking you on a tour of my brain, and by interpretation and extension, Lex’s:
ATTENTION-DEFICIT HYPERACTIVITY DISORDER
People write this disorder off as ‘overdiagnosed’ or ‘a lack of willpower.’ However, in reality, ADHD exists as an obstacle in many people’s lives, and goes particularly unseen in adults.
Symptom categories include:
Inability to focus
Hyperfocus
Impulsivity
Emotional problems
Hyperactivity/restlessness.
(source: https://www.helpguide.org/articles/ad...t-disorder.htm)
I display all of these, and Lex particularly shows symptoms in the impulsivity, emotional problems, and hyperactivity/restlessness categories.
For impulsivity, listed symptoms include talking over people/interrupting and having trouble behaving in socially appropriate ways.
Lex shows these symptoms in his scenes with Senator Finch, and while on top of LexCorp tower. He invades people’s personal space and dominates conversations. His way of comporting himself obviously makes people uncomfortable, but he doesn’t seem to notice or care.
Emotional problems, for ADHD folks, can include a sense of underachievement, frustration, a hypersensitivity to criticism, and having a short, explosive temper.
Lex displays these symptoms particularly in concert with his abuse trauma. When speaking about his father, or in situations that bring his father to mind, Lex loses what stability he has. He also loses his temper when told no by the senator. Jesse Eisenberg plays these moments beautifully, and this instability creates an undercurrent through the rest of his performance.
Finally, we come to hyperactivity and restlessness. The body language Lex exhibits pretty much speaks for itself. He moves in short, sharp bursts and flurries, and speaks that way too.
Additionally, his speeches very much mirror the jostled and unfocused thought patterns of many ADHD people, including mine. Watching him during his library fundraiser speech actually made me embarrassed, because I realized that that’s what I sound like. My brain works that way, and I know it shows.
Overall, Lex’s behaviour really mirrors an ADHD person, and that really gets to me. However, it’s not the only reason I relate to him.
GESCHWIND SYNDROME
Geschwind Sydrome comes comorbid with temporal lobe epilepsy. First categorized by Norman Geschwind, the syndrome consists of ‘chronic, mild, interictal (i.e. between seizures) changes in personality, which slowly intensify over time.’ Not all Geschwind people show all of the symptoms, of course, but I exhibit most of them.
The five changes:
Hypergraphia — the tendency for extensive and compulsive writing.
Hyperreligiosity — intense religious feelings and ‘philosophical interests’
Atypical sexuality — about half of the people with Geschwind report having a decreased libido.
Circumstantiality — people often speak around the point, but always circle back around to it.
Intensified mental life — ‘deepened cognitive and emotional reactions.’
(sources: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2003418 , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geschwind_syndrome)
Lex Luthor shows the hyper-religiosity, intensified mental life, and circumstantiality symptoms particularly strongly. He fixates on deifying and demonizing Superman, and uses religious metaphors constantly. His ADHD amplifies the circumstantiality somewhat, too.
And as for the intensified mental life?
Lex developed about four different concurrent plans to take down Superman that he could switch between at will. Lex’s genius is probably inextricably linked to how his brain functions so differently from a ‘typical’ brain.
I exhibit hyper-religiosity in the same way that Lex does. For me, I don’t believe very strongly in the reality of ‘God,’ but Christian religious symbolism fascinates me and appears often in my speech and my writing. Circumstantiality also defines a lot of my speech. I talk at length, and because my brain moves the way it does, I add ‘unnecessary’ detail a lot of the time. But, the way my thought processes work, that contextual detail is necessary to understanding the point. And I’ve learned that just because that detail might seem obvious to me, that doesn’t mean it is to other people.
BUT, MURPHY, WHY DOES LEX LUTHOR BEING DISABLED MATTER?
Quite simply, it matters because I’ve never seen any fictional character whose brain works this way. Yes, Lex’s villainy makes him unideal in terms of representation. But for me, seeing him at all is pivotal.
Seeing myself in Lex Luthor, I don’t have to feel alone. And seeing myself in Lex Luthor, I can look at myself more critically. That secondhand embarrassment I feel when Lex has a minor breakdown onstage at his party?
I feel it because I’ve done that. Seeing Lex this way lets me examine my own behavior.
I don’t necessarily think that my disabilities define me any more than being queer or butch do. But I know that without them, I wouldn’t be me.
One thing really bothers me about people’s criticism of Batman v Superman more than anything else. I hate it when people try and say that Lex’s behaviour doesn’t make sense.
Maybe it doesn’t to you. Maybe you don’t deal with the brain stuff that we do.
But when you say that this characterization of Lex Luthor is wrong, or unrealistic, or that people should have seen ‘something wrong’ with Lex sooner…
Basically, you’re telling me that I don’t, or shouldn’t, exist. Nobody noticed that my epilepsy caused these symptoms, or even that these symptoms were pathologizeable as disorders or disabilities. It took me years to even feel comfortable recognizing myself as disabled.
People in Batman v Superman didn’t see something wrong with Lex Luthor for the same reason people don’t see my disabilities: people see them as personality eccentricities or flaws, not as symptoms.
When that crowd of people saw his minor breakdown on stage, they didn’t see a man whose trauma was mixing with his other brain things to render him nearly speechless. They saw a rich, eccentric tech wunderkind with no social skills and maybe a stutter.
And audiences in theatres?
They saw something else: they saw the parts of Lex Luthor that Lex keeps hidden, and those parts aren’t so easily written off — but people do it anyway.
Invalidating the experiences of real-life disabled people — that’s ableism, pure and simple.
I understand that this Lex diverges, superficially, from versions of Lex Luthor that have existed previously. I understand that his behaviour makes people uncomfortable. Hell, I know my behavior can make people uncomfortable.
But Lex gave me a mirror. Don’t underestimate what that means for me.
I realize that people don’t realize the stuff they’re saying is ableist. My disabilities don’t get the airtime that PTSD, anxiety, or depression do. My disabilities don’t get romanticized. My disabilities aren’t pretty or tragic.
But the next time you watch a movie, and a character’s brain doesn’t seem to make sense, I just want you to consider the idea that maybe, just maybe, that character isn’t there for you.
Maybe they’re there for someone like me.
I exist, and deserve to see myself represented in movies. I just want to ask you to be careful the next time you label erratic, restless, or ‘strange’ behavior as ‘unrealistic.’
It might not be your reality, but it might be someone else’s.
https://comiconverse.com/batman-v-sup...x-luthor-13311
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