**Beware SPOILERS** Obi-Wan Kenobi Series on Disney+ **Beware SPOILERS**

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If Disney sees an opportunity to add a gash....
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Well played, sir!!



Seriously, I don't have the time, talent, or inclination; but I'm fairly sure you could excise Reva completely from this series and it wouldn't make any difference to the story. Maybe the Obi Wan movie really was in the can three years ago and they just used all the footage and shoehorned Reva and Lil Leia in. Probably not, but with the way Disney shoots this stuff, it's actually possible.

#release the no Reva/no Flea cut!!
 
If he takes ownership of allowing his Vader side to extinguish Anakin, and only blames Kenobi for the disfigurement/mechanical monster part, then what was he blaming Kenobi for on Mustafar prior to being burned?

In other words, he either views Kenobi as one of the sources of his need to turn into Vader in the first place or he doesn't. If he sheds a tear at the prospect of killing those younglings, then he's acting out of duty to Palpatine and the Sith/dark side by following through regretfully. But if a short while later he has a personal vendetta against Kenobi with bad intentions and no regrets, then he's blaming Kenobi for his need to become Vader, right?

Taking complete ownership of destroying Anakin while absolving Obi-Wan seems like it's a sudden departure. If it happened only in that very moment, and we're seeing this acceptance in real time, then I can go along with your reasoning/justification. But if it's a view he had prior, then I don't buy it and it still contradicts his earlier tone.
Well Anakin was upset at the Jedi order first and foremost then became jealous and misguided that Obi-Wan was turning Padme against him.

People when angry say crazy inflammatory stuff especially when on fire so yeah in a way he also included Obi-Wan in his blame game.
 
Well Anakin was upset at the Jedi order first and foremost then became jealous and misguided that Obi-Wan was turning Padme against him.

People when angry say crazy inflammatory stuff especially when on fire so yeah in a way he also included Obi-Wan in his blame game.
Yeah he was in full "if you're not with me you're my enemy/dealing in absolutes" mode where he was magnifying any conceivable opposition/offense in order to justify killing it.

If Obi-Wan didn't appear then he probably would have blamed R2 for turning her against him, lol.
 
Yeah he was in full "if you're not with me you're my enemy/dealing in absolutes" mode where he was magnifying any conceivable opposition/offense in order to justify killing it.

If Obi-Wan didn't appear then he probably would have blamed R2 for turning her against him, lol.
“Et tu, R2?!”
“Beeb boop.”
“I HATE YOU!”
 
Really? I think that the one other human in the galaxy of equal importance to Luke himself was a pretty brilliant justification for getting Obi-Wan to leave Tatooine. Plus the final interaction between Obi-Wan and Bail/Leia was just so perfect (IMO) that I actually feel like the OT is enhanced as a result.
I thought she was great in it and it was fun… but enhance the OT… only if you think that Leia is a cold hearted bitch :lol

She acts like she does not know who he is with her message and could care less when he dies.

Ben is an idiot also for thinking Luke was the last hope… Obviously he don’t think she is that important.

I can’t see a single way it enhances the OT.

As for getting off the planet for a different reason. Have another Jedi come looking for help to save other force sensitive children from Vader and the empire. Ben is resistant but eventually realizes it’s the right thing to do before someone comes for Luke… There , OT intact and Ben left to ultimately protect Luke so it’s not out of character for him.
 
Watching the finale a second time I realized that the OT gash on the top of his head that he did not get on Mustafar matches the opening in his mask that Kenobi sliced. :thud:

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No, that gash on top of his head is actually visible on Mustafar in ROTS and was even included in both the 12" and 4" Hasbro versions of BBQ Anakin (not a great pic of the 4" fig but it's there.)

puUqGWa.jpg

1g940ts.jpg
 
PT haters saying that the PT was too bright and stylised in stark contrast to the dark, grey, industrial and grimy pallette of the OT (a conscious decision to reflect the prosperity and freedom of the Republic era and the oppression of the Imperial era), yet now complaining that the Obi-Wan Kenobi series (set during the Imperial era) is too dark, grey, industrial and grimy. You couldn't make this up.
There's a difference between artistic choice and poorly shot and production designed. :lecture
 
I see what you mean, though with regard to the quote you mention I took it as Obi-Wan commenting on Vader's physical state as a cyborg which Vader did hold against Kenobi, with the latter line being Anakin taking ownership for who he was on the inside, denying Obi-Wan's claimed failure to shape him before he became a cyborg "I have failed you Anakin, I have failed you."

In a perfect world the Obi-Wan finale would have been how Episode III ended so that there never would have been even a need for such a show. Episode I could have started with the events in AOTC, then ROTS as Episode II, and a condensed version of OWK as Episode III. That would have been really nice. As it stands despite the rocky road from Episodes 2-5 of OWK the series ended up accomplishing what I ultimately hoped it would do when they announced that such a production was planned.

****ing yes. That's what I've always felt - that the better parts of what has ultimately ended up in this show should have been contained within Episode III of the movies. The Phantom Menace was largely superfluous. We didn't need to see Anakin at such a young age, we didn't need Qui-Gon. Padme would still have died in Episode III but the kids would have been born & separated earlier, Leia would have spent at least some time with her living birth mother so we wouldn't have to come up with silly ideas in an attempt to excuse Lucas's thoughtless retcon.

If he takes ownership of allowing his Vader side to extinguish Anakin, and only blames Kenobi for the disfigurement/mechanical monster part, then what was he blaming Kenobi for on Mustafar prior to being burned?

In other words, he either views Kenobi as one of the sources of his need to turn into Vader in the first place or he doesn't. If he sheds a tear at the prospect of killing those younglings, then he's acting out of duty to Palpatine and the Sith/dark side by following through regretfully. But if a short while later he has a personal vendetta against Kenobi with bad intentions and no regrets, then he's blaming Kenobi for his need to become Vader, right?

Taking complete ownership of destroying Anakin while absolving Obi-Wan seems like it's a sudden departure. If it happened only in that very moment, and we're seeing this acceptance in real time, then I can go along with your reasoning/justification. But if it's a view he had prior, then I don't buy it and it still contradicts his earlier tone.

How does a turn to the darkside work? The suggestion that Vader killed Anakin (that sure sorted out Obi-Wan's lie to Luke, didn't it? I kinda liked that) makes it sound like a takeover, demon possession....and yet in the midst of his acts of evil Anakin is shown with tears going down his face. Similarly going back to AOTC after he killed all the Sandpeople - he cries. Does the takeover by the darkside dip in and out?

The reason I ask is because I did like that line - I can't remember it exactly offhand - ''I am not your failure Obi-Wan. You didn't kill Anakin, I did'' - my first thought was - well heck, then I can deal with the killing of the younglings - he was possessed. If that is literally how the Dark Side works in Star Wars, then I guess Anakin is at least somewhat absolved - if not for the external influence of the Dark Side Anakin would not have slaughtered younglings. On the other hand if such an act was within his own capability, within his own character - then he's an irredeemable ***k and the redemption story is shot to ***t.

But I dunno.
 
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Whatever, sounds like Talibane has decided to hate this regardless of anything.

All those examples of people being near Vader are also in rooms full of other individuals. I can't see anyway anyone could get away with assassinating him without being in a position whereby their rank and title gives them opportunity to be with Vader alone.

Plot armour and conveniences are nothing new. It's present in everything, even the original trilogy which people seem to hold above any kind of critique.

But, as you have made clear, you hate this.
There's that word again - "hate."😬

Just seems like some flunky with no force powers and a major grievence against Vader could have gotten an entry-level Imperial tech job, bought a lightsaber on the black market, and had a better chance of killing Vader than Reva - and done it in 1/20 the time.:lol
 
No, that gash on top of his head is actually visible on Mustafar in ROTS and was even included in both the 12" and 4" Hasbro versions of BBQ Anakin (not a great pic of the 4" fig but it's there.)

puUqGWa.jpg

1g940ts.jpg
So the gash was from the fire and lava?
 
I agree with JAWS on this. There are plenty of ways they could get Kenobi off Tatooine without tampering with Leia's ANH hologram plea and making Kenobi's ESB "our last hope" line even more implausible. Whatever good came out of Bail/Leia being used is offset by the bad.

If Vader was obsessed with Kenobi, then he should be the one drawing his old master out. The fact that Reva (of all characters!) exploited a connection that Anakin/Vader would've been way more familiar with is just terrible. If Vader spent ten years not using Kenobi's old alliances, then he immediately looks stupid if someone else tries it and it works.

It's already been established that the Empire continued using the HoloNet. So they could've easily had Kenobi going on a supply run while on Tatooine where he sees some type of HoloNet broadcast about an impending execution of Jedi or padawan "criminals." The news story could've shown the facility where the Jedi/padawans were being held until they'd be transported to the execution site 2 or 3 days from now. Kenobi could've recognized it and gone to free them before the transfer.

This could've either been a setup by Vader or just have Vader show up to execute the Jedi himself and run into Kenobi unexpectedly. Or, (as I would prefer it) have a Kenobi adventure where he doesn't encounter Vader at all and thus preserves their ANH duel as the first meeting since Vader was "the learner." Lots of options that wouldn't mess with the OT.

Professional writers can do way better than my lame storytelling skills and my flawed example, so there's no doubt in my mind that other options would've been better and should've been used.
The reality is, this show could have been just Vader vs Kenobi - them hunting and outsmarting each other (yes, Kenobi hunting Vader knowing how dangerous he is, not just the other way around,) cat and mouse, one scoring a victory, which is then undone by the other. If you're going to mess with the OT, at least show us a cool, intense mano-a-mano.

Instead we got Reva vs Vader plus Reva vs Kenobi, with a few sequences of Vader vs Kenobi, other than the final duel mostly just unsurprising fan service stuff.
 
I don't disagree with any of that, but apparently Lucas did lol. Remember Luke's conversation with Obi-Wan's ghost in ROTJ? An excerpt:

Luke: I can't do it Ben.
OWK: You cannot escape your destiny. You must face Darth Vader again.
Luke: I can't kill my own father.
OWK: Then the Empire has already won. You were our only hope.
Another thing is the couple of lines just prior to these

''There is still good in him''
''He's more machine now than man, twisted and evil''

Ajp argues - perhaps rightly, certainly his points yesterday were very good, but I want to get his response to this - that Obi-Wan and Yoda did not intend for Luke to kill Vader, that instead they had in mind (hoped for) exactly what ended up happening. So why - when Luke seemed to be leaning in that very direction with his line about there still being good in Vader - why does Obi-Wan immediately shoot him down and try to redirect him to what Luke would have assumed before his encounter with Vader at Cloud City - that Vader is twisted and evil.....seems counterintuitive.

Why not be explicit with Luke - ''as his son, it might be possible for you to do what Yoda and I never could - bring him back, turn him against the Emperor''. From the perspective of keeping things a surprise for the movie-watchers I understand why they weren't written to say this, why it was kept vague. But within universe surely it'd make sense to be clear with Luke about what the best course of action would be. Was it like Dr Strange in Endgame - it I tell you what happens, it might not happen. :lol
 
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"You're ten years old.......but you won't always be."

Damn Obi Wan stealing my best pick-up line OH MY GOD I'M JOKING DON'T ARREST ME!!!
From TROS Lando's lips to Kenobi's... "well, let's find out"😬
So the gash was from the fire and lava?
Maybe that was the wound inflicted by "I loved you Anakin! Just... not in that way." :dunno
 
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How does a turn to the darkside work? The suggestion that Vader killed Anakin (that sure sorted out Obi-Wan's lie to Luke, didn't it? I kinda liked that) makes it sound like a takeover, demon possession....and yet in the midst of his acts of evil Anakin is shown with tears going down his face. Similarly going back to AOTC after he killed all the Sandpeople - he cries. Does the takeover by the darkside dip in and out?

The reason I ask is because I did like that line - I can't remember it exactly offhand - ''I am not your failure Obi-Wan. You didn't kill Anakin, I did'' - my first thought was - well heck, then I can deal with the killing of the younglings - he was possessed. If that is literally how the Dark Side works in Star Wars, then I guess Anakin is at least somewhat absolved - if not for the external influence of the Dark Side Anakin would not have slaughtered younglings. On the other hand if such an act was within his own capability, within his own character - then he's an irredeemable ***k and the redemption story is shot to ***t.

But I dunno.
The concept of "dark side of the Force" has been twisted and perverted to best suit the needs of whatever story was being told at the time. So if you're asking me for an incontrovertible "official" version of what happens to people like Anakin, I don't think there is one. All I can do is give you my take on it, with the OT and its reference material being my main guide.

In Star Wars, the light and dark sides of the Force never needed to be much more complicated than the real-world inspiration of yin and yang. The light and the dark are both equally needed to maintain a proper balance of life. You can't have new life without death; love has no meaning without understanding hate; cold has no meaning without hot, etc.

When the Sith use the dark side to extinguish the light (such as with exterminating the Jedi Order), balance is lost and darkness tips the scales to tragic outcomes. As such, an individual's fall to the dark side should be a rejection of the light and a microcosm of that by throwing the *personal* balance out of whack.

A Sith should be one huge step beyond that and essentially become a slave to dark impulses. Embracing the dark side so much that the light side has no influence. In AOTC, Anakin wasn't nearly there yet. And because of his ultimate redemption, there's enough doubt that he was even fully there in ROTS.

The whole point of Anakin's redemption in ROTJ is that Luke was right when sensing conflict and asserting that the light had not been fully extinguished. If we accept that, then Anakin was never truly a slave to the dark, but couldn't recognize it until faced with the choice to break free from it to save his son.

I hope there's something in this that is of use to you, but I'm much more enthusiastic about my upcoming response to your subsequent post.
 
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