**Beware SPOILERS** Obi-Wan Kenobi Series on Disney+ **Beware SPOILERS**

[ajp4mgs]

Why not be explicit with Luke - ''as his son, it might be possible for you to do what Yoda and I never could have succeeded in doing - bring him back, turn him against the Emperor''. From the perspective of keeping things a surprise for the movie-watchers I understand why they weren't written to say this, why it was kept vague. But within universe surely it'd make sense to be clear with Luke about what the best course of action would be. Was it like Dr Strange in Endgame - it I tell you what happens, it might not happen.

Because uncertain the future is, and the turn/redemption depended much more on Anakin than on Luke. Luke's appeals to his father didn't keep Vader from dueling his son and even threatening Leia to compel Luke to come out and fight (thus, either join him or die). Vader only turned when Luke's death was an imminent certainty.

If you're going to embrace my interpretation that Yoda and Kenobi had at least a glimmer of hope that Luke could bring Anakin back to the light, then you have to believe that Yoda and Obi-Wan also knew that Luke wouldn't win him over with spoken appeals. Something as simplistic as that would've been turning darksiders back to the light with ease all along, as surely Anakin wasn't the first Jedi to fall. Instead, Anakin would be brought back by not being willing to allow his son to fall as he did, or to be killed.

But Yoda's admonition that always in motion the future is means that Luke shouldn't be encouraged to face Vader expecting not to have to fight for his life. It would be utterly irresponsible of both masters to encourage their pupil to win Vader over with "love" if there was any chance of Vader truly being irredeemable. Promoting a false hope in Luke would be dangerous (and unnecessary).

I'm not proposing that Yoda and Obi-Wan were working with any assumption of certainty as to the outcome. Only hope based on strong supposition by way of *some* clairvoyance. As such, they needed to prepare Luke to be on guard and defend himself. Kinda like this: "Let's make sure that Luke goes in with a sword and not an olive branch. If Anakin is still reachable, he'll only be won over by his own existing feelings and Luke won't be able to create those feelings in him. But if he can't be reached, even by love for his son, then we can't let this kid go in with false hope and just become another of Palpatine's dark puppets. If Luke must kill Vader to survive, then that's how it has to be and we're still screwed."

That's the way I rationalize it. Your mileage may vary.

 

[jye4ever]

ajpkostis

 

[Mandible]

The latest episode of The Orville, once again shows how poorly written Obi-Wan and BOBF (and even a few episodes of Mandalorian) are.

Blows my mind how inept and how little they know about quality writing (and SW in general) in the Lucasfilm writing room. Maybe Lucasfilm care more about what's written on their CV's than their actually proven abilities?

 

[The Buffinator]

Vader - Chases Kenobi thru the galaxy. Pursues him in a star destroyer. Goes to him in a shuttle.
Lands. Walks TORWARD Kenobi......
"...Have you come to destroy me, Obi-Wan?.."

FFS.

Yeah, he seemed to have that backwards

What’s the problem? Practically every line that Hayden/Anakin uttered in the PT was atrocious. It’s called continuity people!

 

[jye4ever]

There truly are some compelling arguments being made against this show being any good I think Khev is almost convinced to abandon the great parts...

Spoiler

 

[Khev]

No, that gash on top of his head is actually visible on Mustafar in ROTS and was even included in both the 12" and 4" Hasbro versions of BBQ Anakin (not a great pic of the 4" fig but it's there.)

Ah, I stand corrected.

 

[SwedishHeat]

Hmm, browsing through the last few pages, I see most of my concerns have already been addressed.

The really bright lights against the dark backgrounds was really over the top. Every scene took place at night or in a dark room, just so it would look cool lit up by a lightsaber. Like, yeah, everyone was impressed with the end of Rogue One, but we didn't need 6 hours of that.

What a waste of time, this show was. I'm really gonna have to start being more discerning with the Marvel and Star Wars content that Disney is pumping out.

 

[Khev]

The really bright lights against the dark backgrounds was really over the top.

My son let out a literal Wilhelm scream when Obi-Wan was trapped under the dark rocks and then had that super bright flurry of HDR enhanced flashbacks, lol.

 

[Prime Clone]

 

[guyver1]

 

[JAWS]

Ok... I really cant recall and Im not ready to rewatch this..

Reva's ultimate goal was to kill Vader. She fails.

So now her goal is to kill Luke??


Anyone know the reason why?? I am sure I missed something there.

 

[TaliBane]

Ah, I stand corrected.

Yes the Kenobi lighsaber cut apparently precisely coincided with that injury... perhaps meaning you weren't the only one who assumed that ROTJ injury is not visible in ROTS.

My son let out a literal Wilhelm scream when Obi-Wan was trapped under the dark rocks and then had that super bright flurry of HDR enhanced flashbacks, lol.

These days you accept the inevitability of an MCU Vader - giant boulders just bouncing off him and all - but MCU Ben was sort of funny, a bizarre character to turn into the guy levitating a 200 ton mountain of rocks.

I couldn't understand why that stuff was necessary when all anyone wanted was a cool duel and some verbal barbs and reunion gravitas exchanged.

I guess they felt once Vader had force-levitated, saber-chopped and force-choked everyone he's passed within 50 ft of and pulled down/dismembered a starship, you have to up the ante and Ben along with that to "even it up."

 

[TaliBane]

Ok... I really cant recall and Im not ready to rewatch this..

Reva's ultimate goal was to kill Vader. She fails.

So now her goal is to kill Luke??


Anyone know the reason why?? I am sure I missed something there.

She knew it would really hit Vader sooo hard to kill the son he doesn't know he has.

But yes this was a plan B when her "get Vader all alone, sneak up behind and stab him with a saber then blame someone else" plan didn't work.

She later realized through personal experience that having a lightsaber thrust right through you is very survivable and minor wound, so plan A wouldn't have worked anyway.

 

[JAWS]

I'm fine with Anakin considering Bail and his family to be "off limits" due to his own prior friendship with him dating back to the Clone Wars. A lingering remnant of "weakness" (aka good) that even he refuses to acknowledge. Which can even then reframe Tarkin's glee at destroying Alderaan in front of not just Leia but Vader as well to obliterate any last ties that Anakin may have had to the people of that planet.

And even if you disagree with that it's just one example of how I can easily come up with reasons that justify what the characters in this show did. Going back to my earlier post that JAWS quoted, if I like the end result then I'm more than happy to come up with my own explanations for what was going on off screen to validate what took place on screen--I've done that for years even with elements of the OT and is all part of the fun for me. If your overall opinion of the show is that it's bad then of course I understand that it's only natural to assume the worst about any given character's actions.

And to be clear I'm not saying that any of your assumptions or interpretations are "wrong." Coming to the conclusion that Vader and/or anyone/everyone else were just a bunch of idiots that taint their OT portrayals is perfectly valid, I just am all too happy to see things differently, which since we're both connecting dots that aren't 100% spelled out on screen I would say is equally valid.

I get all this and of course I am not trying to convince you that you are wrong.

I didn't hate the show. I was more frustrated with it. There just seems to be a lack of understanding or caring for the OT at times.

Sometimes its great "Then my friend is truly dead" mirroring "Then my father is truly dead", Ben calling Anakin Darth when he walks away making all his explanations to Luke much more interesting and understandable.

But making Leia and Obi Wan such close characters in this one was just so dumb. I guess they tried to show that Leia is still 10 years old and as much as Obi wan did for her she was still more excited to see her toy robot at the end then she was Obi wan. So maybe she is just a cold hearted *****

Sometimes the writing on these shows reminds me of Chewbacca walking past Leia after Han is killed. There seems to be a lack of understanding of the history of these characters and the story they come from and so I get frustrated.


I enjoyed the first 4 episodes just fine but the 5th made me realize that plot wise this story was not really going anywhere except to give us a better final Obi Wan / Anakin showdown. Which would be just fine but the rest of the series wasted my time with silliness and characters I had no interest in.

The writing was just so bad at times and because its a Disney product it was also just so predictable also. I mean every single one of us called Reva's redemption. Disney made this way too obvious there with their casting. We all know they could not let a black female character be truly evil. There might have been some suspense of the character was male.

I gave the show a 5 out of 10 because I liked Obi wan and Vader/Anakin. They were done just about perfectly (character wise) the directing of the action scenes left a lot to be desired, but it was the dialogue that between those two that I really enjoyed. I liked the casting of Leia and Uncle Owen killed it. Seeing the Emperor and Qui Gon was fun also.

The cheap look, at times bad directing, plot holes, and bad acting really ruined the show overall for me. I wish I could give a better rating then 5 out of 10.

Its so weird... I was really into the show after the first 4, flaws and all. But it was that 4th and 5th episode that just sort of killed it for me. Vader and Obi Wan stuck the landing but Leia showing so much attachment to Obi Wan and Reva's story just ruined it for me.

 

[Khev]

The reason I ask is because I did like that line - I can't remember it exactly offhand - ''I am not your failure Obi-Wan. You didn't kill Anakin, I did'' - my first thought was - well heck, then I can deal with the killing of the younglings - he was possessed. If that is literally how the Dark Side works in Star Wars, then I guess Anakin is at least somewhat absolved - if not for the external influence of the Dark Side Anakin would not have slaughtered younglings. On the other hand if such an act was within his own capability, within his own character - then he's an irredeemable ***k and the redemption story is shot to ***t.

But I dunno.

"Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice."

Yoda's teaching do suggest that once you start giving an inch to the Dark Side, it will eventually take a mile with almost no hope for turning back regardless of whether you want to or not.

There was a theme going back to the story meetings for ESB that the light and dark sides of the Force are supposed to be used in proper balance, and that the Jedi actually are even required to use the dark side for anything aggressive (which included the likes of telekinesis, mind control, and any form of attacking) which is why it was so important for them to only use such skills when they were calm. Using the Force when highly emotional or frivolously just gives more opportunities for a Jedi to start to become intoxicated by it, which is why screwing around with floating pears to impress a girl was highly frowned upon.

So with that in mind it does seem that in ROTS we were witnessing Anakin being systematically "consumed" scene by scene (hence the remorse, hence the tears) as his voluntary footsteps down that path finally gave way to fully being dominated and unable to turn back.

 

[JAWS]

She knew it would really hit Vader sooo hard to kill the son he doesn't know he has.

But yes this was a plan B when her "get Vader all alone, sneak up behind and stab him with a saber then blame someone else" plan didn't work.

She later realized through personal experience that having a lightsaber thrust right through you is very survivable and minor wound, so plan A wouldn't have worked anyway.

Wait.... So she knows Luke is Vader's son??

So there is another person out there with the ultimate secret??

A person that is far from trust worthy??

WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


So much dumb!

 

[Khev]

Wait.... So she knows Luke is Vader's son??

Yes thanks to Bail's holo-transmission that spilled the beans to anyone who listened, lol.

 

[Khev]

There truly are some compelling arguments being made against this show being any good I think Khev is almost convinced to abandon the great parts...

Spoiler

View attachment 585251

So...j97e1 doesn't like Vader's opening line to Obi-Wan huh. Well then allow me to take a moment to explain why what he said makes perfect sense!

 

[RavenAsh]

The show has such high highs that I totally understand anyone who is kind of willfully ignorant to the rest of it, because some of the moments are definitely cool. One of my friends said he straight up didn't care about the stupidness of the Reva plot because he absolutely adored the Vader and Obi-Wan final fight. I think it's hard for me to look at it that way because I really thought we were going to get MORE than what we got with it. More struggles for Obi-Wan with his friend being alive, about questioning the possibility of there being good in him from Padme's last words. ROTJ Vader's 'Obi-Wan once thought as you did' felt like the in for this series and I just don't think we got much of that conflict at all. How about a talk with Qui-Gon about how his final words led him to feel obligated to train Anakin even though he was somewhat unprepared. About the pain that had caused. I just see such a better show here, even if you have to include Vader. There was such a potential for more that I can't shake. And I'm not saying more as in fanservice moments for example, but more as in storytelling depth. I think just about ALL the depth in this show comes from Ewan's performance, and then Hayden's when the mask is damaged. I wanted more from the script. And the score, my goodness, what a weak score it was.

I saw an interview with John Jackson Miller, who was the author of Star Wars: Kenobi, an extended universe novel written about this time in Kenobi's life which is beloved by many. No source material right Kathleen? Either way, the novel takes place entirely on Tatooine, and focuses on all the themes I wanted more of from this show rather than Leia rescues. Here's what he said:

'We really cannot have Obi-Wan Kenobi running off everywhere. You really do not want villains chasing him to Tatooine like it's Gilligan's Island. It really is the case that...if he's in exile, we need to treat it as he's in exile. If he's in hiding, we have to treat it like he's in hiding. That does not mean we cannot have adventures, that does not mean the time goes smoothly for him. But this is a different period in his life than before, and he has to learn to adjust'

'I wanted to make sure that this was a story that undid no other story. It acted in concert with other stories that were told.'

I think a simpler, more focused story would have just been better for all. I'm okay with what we got, and there are parts I enjoyed but there was so much more from a drama perspective that we could have gotten which wouldn't have put A New Hope in jeopardy.

 

[TaliBane]

Yes thanks to Bail's holo-transmission that spilled the beans to anyone who listened, lol.

Yup, Bail was also known for always posting when he was away from Alderaan on vacation, letting any crook know his house was unoccupied, or letting holo-phone scammers access his online banking without question. He's just one of those kinda guys.