**Beware SPOILERS** Obi-Wan Kenobi Series on Disney+ **Beware SPOILERS**

[ZE_501]

@Bravomite ... so by definition The Bravomite Canon is the product of a schismatic sect with an overall Pantheistic direction.

 

[greygoose]

Hopefully this won't be the case, as we are still 20+ years away from that in the Disney timeline. I also get the impression that Filoni and Favreau want to stay away from the Disney Sequel Trilogy anyway.

We got Disney Luke in Boba.

 

[Dark_Knight_89]

We got Disney Luke in Boba.

Oh no, did we? How so?

I've not watched it yet so I had no idea.

 

[Dark_Knight_89]

The Bravomite canon is already divided and this causes me enough headaches as it is with just the two timelines and I don't need anymore:

Canon 1: PT and OT and then some of the dark horse comics and EU novels and the original clone wars cartoon (and the shadows of the empire video game) - this is now set and cannot be added too

Canon 2: PT + Rogue One + OT + Mando season 1 & 2 (providing a nice epilogue) and if I am feeling benevolent I will allow Clone Wars, Rebels and Bad Batch. With the BOBF disappointment it has now become almost impossible to extend this out to any period after the glorious ending of Mando season 2 but there is still space for Kenobi if it behaves.

For some crazy reason I feel the need to continuously assess every new Star Wars media and decide whether or not it makes canon like some obsessive curator or guardian of the 'Bravomite Way' which applies only to me (although my 1/6 dolly collection may in the future only permit figures from this canon). Of course some nu Star Wars (most of the comics and high republic) does not even get an assessment and is discarded on announcement.

In some nefarious scheme I may raise my kids to only have access to the Bravomite approved canon Star Wars media until one day I reveal that there is other 'content' out there that some consider to be unnatural and then offer them a red pill blue pill choice to either stay ignorant of it and live a happy Bravomite canon existence, free of the concerns and anxiety caused by bad Star Wars or take the plunge and witness the horror for themselves. Of course by this point Star Wars probably won't even be 'cool' and they will be interested only in the MCU or something. Hmm I may need to extend this to all franchises.

I genuinely think about this a lot. I can't wait to share Star Wars with my son for the first time, when he is old enough. At the moment, I don't think I will be showing him the Disney Sequel Trilogy. I don't think I will even mention it unless he discovers it himself and asks me about it.

 

[Garlador]

Oh no, did we? How so?

I've not watched it yet so I had no idea.

Without going into specifics, he seems to have unlearned some of the things that made him the one to fix the Jedi’s old mistakes.

 

[Dark_Knight_89]

Without going into specifics, he seems to have unlearned some of the things that made him the one to fix the Jedi’s old mistakes.

Thanks! Happy to have spoilers by the way. It may help save me from a higher level of disappointment when I do watch it.

 

[Garlador]

Thanks! Happy to have spoilers by the way. It may help save me from a higher level of disappointment when I do watch it.

I’m not as hard on BoBF as some. And I think that the stuff with Luke is… interesting. I don’t think it’s a problem, per se, and they could develop it logically. Maybe, or maybe not.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

At least you're prepared for what's approaching down the line. So it's like your parachute is already on for the inevitable jumping off point.

There's at least two Disney-era films that you and I have a dramatically different view of, but I get where you're coming from and I respect it. Hell, Disney Wars has been trending down dramatically for me too lately, so I might even jump before you do.

Here's hoping the ride lasts long enough to offer a few more good times, though.

Even if I have to jump I'll probably still collect stuff from the times before Disney Lucasfilm sent their tie bombers and K2 droids to nuke the franchise. So hopefully the good times never really end kind of like those cheesy Old Milwaukee commercials on a never ending loop lol

 

[greygoose]

Oh no, did we? How so?

I've not watched it yet so I had no idea.

The below photo sums it up well.

In general, Luke is just a ****. Gives Grogu a choice with no compromise (that we know of yet). Forgets he had friends in the OT.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

I genuinely think about this a lot. I can't wait to share Star Wars with my son for the first time, when he is old enough. At the moment, I don't think I will be showing him the Disney Sequel Trilogy. I don't think I will even mention it unless he discovers it himself and asks me about it.

 

[Sassafras]

We got Disney Luke in Boba.

And we also got the lab in Mando Season 2. E.g. the Snoke whiff. Plus Moff Gideon is still running around saying long live the Empire = First Order, eventually. Plus the factory Miggs blew up.

Tho so far all that hasn't bothered me; or remnants like the Client 'coz it's *realistic* that when the Empire collapsed, there'd be all these fragments of it sulking about the collapse of order. Imagine whatever factory that specialized in boring fabric manufacture (black, black, grey, black, red, white, black, black, more black) isn't happy either.

 

[Dark_Knight_89]

And we also got the lab in Mando Season 2. E.g. the Snoke whiff. Plus Moff Gideon is still running around saying long live the Empire = First Order, eventually. Plus the factory Miggs blew up.

Tho so far all that hasn't bothered me; or remnants like the Client 'coz it's *realistic* that when the Empire collapsed, there'd be all these fragments of it sulking about the collapse of order. Imagine whatever factory that specialized in boring fabric manufacture (black, black, grey, black, red, white, black, black, more black) isn't happy either.

Now, I've not seen the Mandalorian yet, so this may chance when I do watch it, but the things you mention don't necessarily tie into the Disney Sequel Trilogy for me.

The lab in Mando S2 could simply be a means of the fractured Empire trying to re-establish it's power through the use of clones, much like the Republic in the pre-Empire era.

Moff Gideon and other Imperials trying to keep the Empire alive is actually expected following the events of Return of the Jedi. It gets explored in Timothy Zahn's Thrawn trilogy too. Remnants of the Empire trying to keep things together doesn't necessarily mean the origins of The First Order to me. Sounds like you kind of agree on this too.

I don't know specifics about a factory being blown up yet.

At least, this is how I'm explaining it to my own canon anyway. And, like I said, I've not seen Mando yet, so this may change when I do watch it. But unless it has THE FIRST ORDER or SNOKE or RESISTANCE etc. stamped on it, I'm hoping to be able to explain it away.

 

[Khev]

Cruel. You get to be in that catbird seat of having been okay with every single Disney SW offering so far (I believe). You're gonna end up being the lone survivor, chuckling as the rest of us flee in anger, posing your Black Series Vespa gang and buying 8 figures of both Kenobi and Vader so that you can replicate each of their upcoming duels.

And yes while everything Disney has put out in movies and TV (I ignore the dumb novels and comics) has been a mixed bag to varying degrees (except RO and the BOBF finale which were both perfect ) I've more or less enjoyed them all.

The final hurdle to being able to appreciate each new thing was just allowing for SW to have its separate eras of canon and not worry about any one being the "correct" one. I didn't like having to constantly rework and rearrange my one single head canon, it was exhausting, lol. At first the ST was canon for me, then not when it was revealed that George's ST treatment was ignored, then it became canon again when I loved TROS and learned what George's ST would have actually been (Whills driving people like cars, lol.) At one point "my" canon PT was TPM, Solo, and RO...ech too much juggling and straining of my OCD, lol.

But now I'm at peace with the original era of SW (theatrical OT give or take early Dark Horse EU) being untouchable by any future recontextualizing, which is also untouched by George's revised vision of the OT:SE and PT and so on. It's just too much fun for me to have this full Saga that I dreamed about seeing for years on end finally come to be with a fully realized PT, ST, Fett escaping the Sarlacc, all that stuff I dreamed about even if it is "for better or for worse." I'm amazed that it's an actual reality now, and since for me even the "for worse" stuff still has a lot that I enjoy I'm trying not to get to worked up about the various "what could have beens."

I do have some hope that I'll enjoy Kenobi, and that I'll be able to accept it into either the Lucas PT/OT:SE canon or the Disney canon. I can't imagine liking anything related to the High Republic though. I'm pretty much vehemently opposed to every aspect of its concept and creation, going all the way back to that idiotic "white board" session with KK's "Story Group" that kicked the whole thing off.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Without going into specifics, he seems to have unlearned some of the things that made him the one to fix the Jedi’s old mistakes.

I think this depends entirely on what George Lucas intended the "Jedi's old mistakes" to be. He's been clear about it in film commentary and interviews, so we don't even need to guess anymore.

The failure of the Jedi was hubris. They got involved in fighting battles, thereby departing from their core philosophies. The Jedi failed by no longer acting like Jedi. Part of this was due to Palpatine's manipulation, but the other part of it was due to a growing Jedi arrogance. An arrogance that was hinted at in AOTC during this exchange:

OBI-WAN: "His abilities have made him arrogant."

YODA: "Yes. Yes. A flaw more and more common among Jedi. Too sure of themselves they are. Even the older, more experienced ones."

Many of them were killed by soldiers that the Jedi themselves brought under their wing to command into battle. The irony of that was purposeful. From what I've heard and read from Lucas himself, the Jedi failure had nothing to do with their long-standing traditions being the problem. And that most certainly includes their approach to possessive attachment.

The Jedi were prosperous for a thousand generations. That's *thousands* of years where the Jedi doctrine and philosophy kept the Order intact and preserved peace in the galaxy. Anakin is the one who failed by not understanding and embracing the idea that "no one is ever really gone." Or, as Yoda put it:

YODA: "Death is a natural part of life. Rejoice for those around you who transform into the Force. Mourn them do not. Miss them do not. Attachment leads to jealousy. The shadow of greed that is."

ANAKIN: "What must I do, Master Yoda?"

YODA: "Train yourself to let go... of everything you fear to lose."

Lucas wasn't making Yoda the bad guy here. That lesson is meant to be sage wisdom. It all goes back to needing to overcome fear. And it's a philosophy that Luke embraced in the final act of the OT, after almost falling to the dark side by being willing to do something destructive out of fear over his sister's fate.

 

[ajp4mgs]

And yes while everything Disney has put out in movies and TV (I ignore the dumb novels and comics) has been a mixed bag to varying degrees (except RO and the BOBF finale which were both perfect ) I've more or less enjoyed them all.

The final hurdle to being able to appreciate each new thing was just allowing for SW to have its separate eras of canon and not worry about any one being the "correct" one. I didn't like having to constantly rework and rearrange my one single head canon, it was exhausting, lol. At first the ST was canon for me, then not when it was revealed that George's ST treatment was ignored, then it became canon again when I loved TROS and learned what George's ST would have actually been (Whills driving people like cars, lol.) At one point "my" canon PT was TPM, Solo, and RO...ech too much juggling and straining of my OCD, lol.

But now I'm at peace with the original era of SW (theatrical OT give or take early Dark Horse EU) being untouchable by any future recontextualizing, which is also untouched by George's revised vision of the OT:SE and PT and so on. It's just too much fun for me to have this full Saga that I dreamed about seeing for years on end finally come to be with a fully realized PT, ST, Fett escaping the Sarlacc, all that stuff I dreamed about even if it is "for better or for worse." I'm amazed that it's an actual reality now, and since for me even the "for worse" stuff still has a lot that I enjoy I'm trying not to get to worked up about the various "what could have beens."

I do have some hope that I'll enjoy Kenobi, and that I'll be able to accept it into either the Lucas PT/OT:SE canon or the Disney canon. I can't imagine liking anything related to the High Republic though. I'm pretty much vehemently opposed to every aspect of its concept and creation, going all the way back to that idiotic "white board" session with KK's "Story Group" that kicked the whole thing off.

I applaud and envy your enjoyment of the full picture, but I know that I'll never be able to embrace the "for worse" elements the way you are able to. For me, there will always only be two possible versions of Star Wars: the official canon and my personal canon. Only two there are; no more, no less.

The official canon used to be my only canon, despite deep disappointment with the PT. But is has become untenable for me now because I refuse to accept Force gods, time travel portals, Palpatine resurrection, and incompetent Boba Fett. I could probably learn to accept the latter two over time, but those first two I reject with a very, *very* firm repulsion. And Ahsoka being in live action brings *both* of those with her, so I just feel silly playing a game of pretending that she doesn't.

I watch SW now with the hope of at least being able to enjoy pieces in an "Elseworlds" sort of way. For example, Thrawn is probably one of my top 5 favorite SW characters of all time. I don't even like the plots of those old EU novels he's in, but Zahn writes his characterization so perfectly suited to my sensibilities that Thrawn is just awesome to me. There's absolutely no way I won't be watching his appearances. They won't be in my personal canon, but neither was the old EU. I can live with that.

 

[Wor-Gar]

ANAKIN: "What must I do, Master Yoda?"

YODA: "Train yourself...

I like this idea. It's like Yoda's fed up:

Yoda: Go train yourself!

I want that on a t-shirt. Oh, Go train yourself.


In this world of personal space and ideological bubbles, this is the perfect answer. Who wants to learn from a little old green weirdo, when you can google yourself into an expert?

 

[ironwez20]

My canon is clone wars
Pt
Ot and mando and rogue one
Everything else is utter trash

 

[Khev]

I applaud and envy your enjoyment of the full picture, but I know that I'll never be able to embrace the "for worse" elements the way you are able to. For me, there will always only be two possible versions of Star Wars: the official canon and my personal canon. Only two there are; no more, no less.

The official canon used to be my only canon, despite deep disappointment with the PT. But is has become untenable for me now because I refuse to accept Force gods, time travel portals, Palpatine resurrection, and incompetent Boba Fett. I could probably learn to accept the latter two over time, but those first two I reject with a very, *very* firm repulsion. And Ahsoka being in live action brings *both* of those with her, so I just feel silly playing a game of pretending that she doesn't.

I watch SW now with the hope of at least being able to enjoy pieces in an "Elseworlds" sort of way. For example, Thrawn is probably one of my top 5 favorite SW characters of all time. I don't even like the plots of those old EU novels he's in, but Zahn writes his characterization so perfectly suited to my sensibilities that Thrawn is just awesome to me. There's absolutely no way I won't be watching his appearances. They won't be in my personal canon, but neither was the old EU. I can live with that.

If you reject TCW and Rebels due to Force gods and time travel portals then you could say that Mando/BOBF Ahsoka is merely "inspired" by the cartoon version and not actually the same character, the way that Rebels Thrawn isn't the same character from the Zahn novels. That's assuming that you wanted Mando and Episode 6 of BOBF in your personal canon.

Palps' resurrection was rubber stamped by George all the way back in 1991 so I'm surprised that people are so hung up on that occurring in live-action.

As for Fett's competence I've got to imagine that you consider ROTJ canon right? His incompetence there got him killed, whereas in BOBF for all of his unhelmeted buffoonery (since thankfully aside from the door button pushing he was always a badass when his helmet was on) everything still worked out for him in the end. Since he literally achieved everything he set out to accomplish then by definition he technically wasn't incompetent, just silly from time to time.

I'm guessing that you might counter with "well there's a difference between being competent and being lucky" if that's how you perceive him but as William Munny once famously said luck is often a big factor in these types' of characters' success. Plus I'm not so sure that he needed as much help as a lot of people are assuming. Who's to say that after pressing the button on the door for the 5th time that he wouldn't have then just blasted it had Fennec not stepped in, or that he wouldn't have dispatched the seismic charge into the Sarlacc himself (he didn't at all acknowledge that what she did was necessary, quite the opposite in fact) and so on. People just don't want to give him the benefit of the doubt and are declaring him helpless when based on what was shown on screen you can't definitively make that call.

 

[Garlador]

Palps' resurrection was rubber stamped by George all the way back in 1991 so I'm surprised that people are so hung up on that occurring in live-action.

It’s always in the execution. People would be far less upset at Palp’s return if it was properly foreshadowed, logically led into his big return, thematically meant something to the original heroes, or wasn’t fleshed out the most in a teaser in Fortnite.

The EU had its problems, but it was soooo much better than “somehow, Palpatine has returned…”

I expect a lot of future tie-in media will be trying to make this all match up and fitting that round peg into that square hole.

 

[Khev]

It’s always in the execution.

Very true.

People would be far less upset at Palp’s return if it was properly foreshadowed, logically led into his big return, thematically meant something to the original heroes, or wasn’t fleshed out the most in a teaser in Fortnite.

The EU had its problems, but it was soooo much better than “somehow, Palpatine has returned…”

I expect a lot of future tie-in media will be trying to make this all match up and fitting that round peg into that square hole.

While I do think that people have blown the "somehow Palpatine has returned" line WAY out of proportion (it's freaking Poe who had no way of knowing how he did it at that time) I agree about the lack of foreshadowing. There's still some happy coincidences in there like Rey's fighting style in TFA being reminiscent of Palps and the mirror scene in TLJ maybe hinting that her bloodline had been cloned but we all know that it certainly wasn't planned that way in advance.

It's too bad that they didn't have the foresight to end TLJ by having the rebel broadcast sent from Crait asking for help be answered by Palps' laughter and declaration of revenge. That would have been one hell of a "whoa" moment to end on to get people psyched for the next installment and would have provided some much needed cohesion between entries.