Beware the Recaster(s)

[PopCultKid]

I think a better question is, why don't I (or someone that would actually buy a recast) deserve to get one?

Deserve has nothing to do with it. Theres a demand, so someone will provide a supply. No one is going to ignore that supply just to appease Nam's self-riteious moral code.

But there are moral codes that exist in this hobby as they exist in many other aspects of life. Do you want to play right into an act that is widely frowned upon in the community? Karamazov just listed a bunch of alternatives. If you want the exact sculpt that you missed out on and don't want to pay secondary market prices for the real deal, then you (generally speaking; not to you directly) are directly supporting and funding thieves.

 

[Snadinator]

Yeah, I wonder what will happen to movie studios when video cameras and special effects software hit critical mass??

Why pay to go see a Star Wars movie on the screen, when you can just make the movie yourself??

I don't think you understand where I am going. Your example is not the same thing at all. With 3D printers, you could achieve the same quality with no effort required. Your example would be the equivalent of me buying sculpting tools and attempting to sculpt a statue. With the 3D printer, I do not need those skills or the huge time investment...

3D printers are going to change a lot of things.

 

[PopCultKid]

However, after starting to attend the forum and especially after I found the Custom Section, I start to respect the work of people like Denny Kim, Rocco and Zsculptor, and finally understand that there is a BIG difference between selling a unlicensed figure to a collector and steal the work of others to try to profit, despite not having the talent or the hard work necessary to get it by it own.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell folks. Its pretty black and white to me and not too much gray area

 

[pixletwin]

I think a better question is, why don't I (or someone that would actually buy a recast) deserve to get one?

Oh that's easy. Because you missed out.

 

[Jen]

No, from what I understand, he says it's a mod who scammed him. So the situation's pretty delicate if that's the case.

No a mod did not scam him....we are just gathering all the details from both parties about what went down.

And this topic is derailing this thread.

Wow, I never thought I would be agreeing with Nam on these issues. But I pretty much agree with everything he's said here. What happened to the "a thief is a thief is a thief" argument?

Yeah, if you miss out on an original, then that's your bad. What entitles you to get something just because you procrastinated or got into the game late? Nothing. I think a guy like Rocco is great for the collecting community because he's prolific, very good, and produces alternative, new interpretations of characters folks missed out on before (Dude) or haven't been done justice in the eyes of some (Ghostbusters, Ash). That's the way to get things done. Find someone else to do a new version, try to convince the original artist to produce more, or buy an original on the secondary market. That's pretty cut and dry. Buying a recast is never an acceptable solution in my book. But everyone makes their own decisions.

I agree with this 100%

 

[Drkehn]

You know I think a BIG problem is, that I for one do not know all the original artists and there heads... I often see heads on ebay I like but frankly do not know if its "real" or a recast.... scum make copies of everything today.... Some kind of database would be helpful.. as in who made what in what numbers and who I can trust.. maybe with forum and ebay names... I for one had to learn the hard way that, that diver guy on ebay is a recaster and his heads are sh**.... New guys to the hobby will easy fall for sellers like him not knowing any better

 

[Cheungkinmen]

I don't think you understand where I am going. Your example is not the same thing at all. With 3D printers, you could achieve the same quality with no effort required. Your example would be the equivalent of me buying sculpting tools and attempting to sculpt a statue. With the 3D printer, I do not need those skills or the huge time investment...

3D printers are going to change a lot of things.

You still need the file, the 3D sculpt to print it, and believe me, no one is going to give those for free EVER. I can see digital sculptors charging a fee for downloading the 3d sculpt file instead.

Buying a 3d printer IS a huge investment.

 

[Godfather1408]

Just to make everyone aware someone on eBay has just accused me of selling recasts. I don't know if they come on this forum but I am appalled that anyone would think that I do this. All the sculpts I have for sale on eBay can be seen in my for sale section. They are ALL originals from either rocco, skiman or commando. I wouldn't even know where to start when it comes to recasting. I shouldn't have to explain myself but felt the need to come on here as I do not want to get banned when I haven't done anything except selling my private collection.

Emma

I know this feeling before I joined here I bought a sculpt from Q being told it was given to him by beto and I told beto and the result was me being accused by a member who will name nameless that I was a recaster! People assume things and I feel that it's unfair your not alone in this! And so the argument started and in return beto kept his sculpt and I never saw my £120 and still waiting for it...... I do have faith in beto that he will refund my money but I'd like to make it clear that I do not support recasting at all there is a reason why people make a limited run of sculpts!

 

[Ironman1188]

No, what's ludicrous is you thinking you're entitled to it and using that to justify supporting a recaster.

Wow, I never thought I would be agreeing with Nam on these issues. But I pretty much agree with everything he's said here. What happened to the "a thief is a thief is a thief" argument?

Yeah, if you miss out on an original, then that's your bad. What entitles you to get something just because you procrastinated or got into the game late? Nothing. I think a guy like Rocco is great for the collecting community because he's prolific, very good, and produces alternative, new interpretations of characters folks missed out on before (Dude) or haven't been done justice in the eyes of some (Ghostbusters, Ash). That's the way to get things done. Find someone else to do a new version, try to convince the original artist to produce more, or buy an original on the secondary market. That's pretty cut and dry. Buying a recast is never an acceptable solution in my book. But everyone makes their own decisions.

But,....you're agreeing with him on something that was never said.

Nammagazine keeps implying that I am justifying and/or supporting recasting. That is not the case, and that I have said.

What I did say is that the "need" of a recast is filled by the original not being offered any longer. If a sculptor continues to offer his work on a regular basis and doesn't turn away future customers, it gives the recaster less of a foothold.

The "limited run" sculpt from a customizer never made any sense to me.

 

[Snadinator]

You still need the file, the 3D sculpt to print it, and believe me, no one is going to give those for free EVER. I can see digital sculptors charging a fee for downloading the 3d sculpt file instead.

Buying a 3d printer IS a huge investment.

I said when 3D printers reach critical mass. By then they will be cheap and mass produced.

You think no one will give away free specs? Someone already has for plastic guns and many have downloaded it.

Like it or not, 3D printers are going to change a great many things in the not so distant future. Some good, some bad, some ethically grey.

 

[sdabbs]

But,....you're agreeing with him on something that was never said.

Nammagazine keeps implying that I am justifying and/or supporting recasting. That is not the case, and that I have said.

What I did say is that the "need" of a recast is filled by the original not being offered any longer. If a sculptor continues to offer his work on a regular basis and doesn't turn away future customers, it gives the recaster less of a foothold.

The "limited run" sculpt from a customizer never made any sense to me.

This is a very good point, and something that I had always thought - until putting it into practice, when I presented a piece that was not limited, and forever available I couldn't shift any, but as soon as I started selling pieces in limited runs - then they flew off the shelf!

 

[Cheungkinmen]

I said when 3D printers reach critical mass. By then they will be cheap and mass produced.

You think no one will give away free specs? Someone already has for plastic guns and many have downloaded it.

Like it or not, 3D printers are going to change a great many things in the not so distant future. Some good, some bad, some ethically grey.

Well, we are discussing sculpts and likeness aren't we ?. Of course there are a tons of files for free, just hop in turbosquid.com.

BUT, I would still say even if printers get cheaper, no sculptor will give up a likeness 3d sculpt for free. I know I wouldn't spend countless hours on zbrush to just give away a sculpt I did for someone to print it on their own, unless I charge hundreds of dollars per download, not even you would give a 3d sculpt for free.

I like 3d printers, I am sorting for one.

 

[karamazov80]

I don't think you are being singled out Iron Man, but this post suggests that you feel differently than Nam and I:

Its not an attempt to justify what recasters do, but some of the sculptors themselves make what the recasters do seem necessary.

The process original sculptors/owners employ does not make recasting necessary in any way. It creates a market for recasting, sure, but implying that it is "necessary" legitimizes it; that is to say, the demand by buyers who aren't able/willing to come up with alternatives necessitates the actions of recasters. Is illegal gun running or drug trafficking necessary, because there is a market for it? Recasters could do the right thing and not go that route. Buyers could do the same, but some don't know any better, others rationalize their behavior, and others just don't give a crap.

The limited run thing is part of the collectibility component inherent to the collecting community. If it's rare, then it is more special in a sense, and some attach more value to it. I can understand if you don't feel that way, but it's pretty clearly a pervasive part of all collecting. Mattel claims this or that product is "rare and exclusive," Hot Toys and Sideshow do the same, as do custom artists.

If Andy Warhol didn't produce enough prints to satisfy demand, would folks justify fakes to meet the remaining demand? I believe that an artist can do what he or she pleases and be understandably upset when someone takes their hard work and capitalizes on it.

 

[thenammagazine]

But,....you're agreeing with him on something that was never said.

Nammagazine keeps implying that I am justifying and/or supporting recasting. That is not the case, and that I have said.

What I did say is that the "need" of a recast is filled by the original not being offered any longer. If a sculptor continues to offer his work on a regular basis and doesn't turn away future customers, it gives the recaster less of a foothold.

The "limited run" sculpt from a customizer never made any sense to me.

How is that not justifying the recaster?

 

[transhi100]

The process original sculptors/owners employ does not make recasting necessary in any way. It creates a market for recasting, sure, but implying that it is "necessary" legitimizes it; that is to say, the demand by buyers who aren't able/willing to come up with alternatives necessitates the actions of recasters. Is illegal gun running or drug trafficking necessary, because there is a market for it? Recasters could do the right thing and not go that route. Buyers could do the same, but some don't know any better, others rationalize their behavior, and others just don't give a crap.

The limited run thing is part of the collectibility component inherent to the collecting community. If it's rare, then it is more special in a sense, and some attach more value to it. I can understand if you don't feel that way, but it's pretty clearly a pervasive part of all collecting. Mattel claims this or that product is "rare and exclusive," Hot Toys and Sideshow do the same, as do custom artists.

If Andy Warhol didn't produce enough prints to satisfy demand, would folks justify fakes to meet the remaining demand? I believe that an artist can do what he or she pleases and be understandably upset when someone takes their hard work and capitalizes on it.

Well said!

 

[PopCultKid]

This is a very good point, and something that I had always thought - until putting it into practice, when I presented a piece that was not limited, and forever available I couldn't shift any, but as soon as I started selling pieces in limited runs - then they flew off the shelf!

Of course!

I don't think you are being singled out Iron Man, but this post suggests that you feel differently than Nam and I:


The process original sculptors/owners employ does not make recasting necessary in any way. It creates a market for recasting, sure, but implying that it is "necessary" legitimizes it; that is to say, the demand by buyers who aren't able/willing to come up with alternatives necessitates the actions of recasters. Is illegal gun running or drug trafficking necessary, because there is a market for it? Recasters could do the right thing and not go that route. Buyers could do the same, but some don't know any better, others rationalize their behavior, and others just don't give a crap.

The limited run thing is part of the collectibility component inherent to the collecting community. If it's rare, then it is more special in a sense, and some attach more value to it. I can understand if you don't feel that way, but it's pretty clearly a pervasive part of all collecting. Mattel claims this or that product is "rare and exclusive," Hot Toys and Sideshow do the same, as do custom artists.

If Andy Warhol didn't produce enough prints to satisfy demand, would folks justify fakes to meet the remaining demand? I believe that an artist can do what he or she pleases and be understandably upset when someone takes their hard work and capitalizes on it.

All of this too.

There's no real way to justify recasting. Plain and simple

 

[Wulf]

What entitles you to get something just because you procrastinated or got into the game late? Nothing.

What entitles artists to create figures without the approval of the owners and make a profit of it? This is a serious question, not trying to be a smartass or something. As I've said, I'm open-minded.

 

[pixletwin]

What entitles artists to create figures without the approval of the owners and make a profit of it? This is a serious question, not trying to be a smartass or something. As I've said, I'm open-minded.

It's a question constructed as justification to patronize jerkoffs and douches in the hobby.

 

[Wulf]

It's a question constructed as justification to patronize jerkoffs and douches in the hobby.

I don't defend this Q guy or any recaster.. I do find recasting to be a pretty much **** move of copying someone's artistic work without any effort or approval of the author. But what I wonder why such deep ethics are only applied to the recasters and not the artists who make products without approval of the owners? It's a legit question.

 

[LipSmack]

Gotta chime in and say this, the artist doing something wrong in the first place if they are selling a sculpt that the Actor or person hasnt given any rights to, so IMO a recaster is no worse, simply meeting a demand just as the artist was in the first place (people want a sculpt for a bash or something so they comision a head)

Edit: this is regarding comisions and private sculptors not licensed heads like HT produces