Captain America: Civil War (May 6, 2016)

[Victοr]

Wait, so you're telling me Black Panther is on Reed's or Luthor tier of intelligence? I didn't know that. Daaaamn.

And I think you're lowballing Bats against Spidey with preptime. Bats is smarter than Spidey and has waaaaay more experience. if it was a cage fistfight Batman would surely lose though.

Not on Reed's level, no. Reed/Doom and Luthor are the Top 3. But from the rest, I'd say T'Challa comes out on top. Though Hank Pym deserves a mention. He essentially built a TARDIS (his Avengers Mansion). Personally I'd put Doom above Reed cause he;s the only one in the Marvel U to create a time machine, but Reed's got a whole lot of crazy **** in his arsenal, so it's a tough one. The Maker is smarter than both of them combined though.

As for Batman, it depends. I wouldn't say smarter, I'd say more focused and with better resources. When Peter was 15, he created his very own web-fluid and a special tracker that tuned into his Spider Sense's frequency, with nothing but parts a broke 15 YO kid could find. Not to mention these feats:

Getting a Cosmic Cube to work while stuck with nothing but the most basic of clues (Spider-Man vs Wolverine):

Teaching Ultimate Iron Man how to open an interdimensional portal:

From Invincible Iron Man, Parker builds a tracker not even Bleeding Edge Tony can detect:

Corrects Wakandan Math:

Disarms a bomb neither Stark nor Richards could disarm:

Has an IQ north of 250:

Same scores as Reed in his age:

I'm not saying he's 100% smarter than Bats, but Parker's a damn beast.

 

[Victοr]

Not just Thor, Ultron too, and Gemora, Drax, Ronan, Iron Man, and War Machine too. They're way more powerful in the comics....Hulk too. MCU Hulk is strong...but not comic strong, not when he can lose his teeth by getting hit by Iron Man.

Yeah, you're right on those as well. I'm holding out some hope that we see Conqueror Ultron and the Phalanx at some point, truth be told.

 

[jye4ever]

I am impressed with how they juggled that many characters, not one character was short changed. Oscar worthy writing as far as i'm concerned.

That being said I find the complaints of inconsequential consequences and outcomes to be very valid at this stage of the MCU.

 

[GasparZizou]

I'm not saying he's 100% smarter than Bats, but Parker's a damn beast.

Wow, yeah I've been lowballing Spidey too

Man you make me want to read Marvel comics again

 

[Sachiel]

For me, Civil War is the superior film and the majority agrees, be it RT, Metacritic, IMDB, Flickr, Comic Book Forums, whatever. Both the critics and the audiences agree that CW is the better of two.

It's still junk food.

 

[Starscream Soundwave]

Not really.

Civil War is good - but that's it. Its nowhere near at the level of TWS. Its more an Avengers 2.5 than a Cap movie. Its fun and entertaining but extremely shallow.

The biggest problem is the film had no teeth. Nobody died, nobody got truly affected by the events of CW. So, The Avengers aren't sanctioned by the U.N. now. Honestly, who cares?

The movie should have changed the MCU forever. It didn't. All it did was introduce two new heroes.

The film opens with The Avengers performing unsanctioned work and ends with The Avengers continuing that unsanctioned work.

With BvS the world lost Superman, the JLA began to form and Batman regained his moral code.

I'll take those two dark and depressing funerals over that ******** apology letter and pointless mid-credits "resolution" for Bucky.

I can't take this seriously

 

[Theokan]

Dude, they couldn't even kill off Rhodey. They couldn't even paralyze him. For ****'s sake, BP forgave Zemo. They couldn't even leave the Avengers who were locked up locked up.

By the time these people see each other again they'll be high-fiving and acting as if nothing ever happened.

I had fun watching this but once I processed it all, I saw just how inconsequential it really is.

Honestly if they're going to kill someone and bring them back, then it's better if they wrote the story without them dying in the first place. I mean in BvS they were going to kill off Superman, but they brought him back 1 second before the movie ends, that completely ruined the experience for me. Everyone knows he's going to come back anyway but they couldn't even keep him dead in one movie.

They chose not to kill off Cap in MCU Civil War, that's fine. They already killed off Quick Silver in AOU, if they keep doing stuff like that it would just end up being a gimmick. The Avengers failed, Zemo won. There won't be an Avengers movie until the end game because the team doesn't exist anymore, it makes perfect sense the way it's being played out.

--

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Am I the only one who liked the villain? Sure, he doesn't his costume, but in a way he was like a Bond villain mixed with Lex Luthor and I thought he worked as a side character that was manipulating everything. If this is his origin...not bad. Hopefully he wears a costume eventually.

 

[SNIKT1950]

I agree with your CW summary, but I can make a list for BvS too. Countries were also shaken up by Superman just stepping in and other stuff.



C'mon man, BP is not forgiving Zemo, he made him face Justice, that's worse than death, he has to stay alive with his demons. Rhodey being paralyzed in the MCU makes no sense considering the tech that exists. And like Darthkostis says, Avengers are now fugitive, it's worse than being locked up.

I know BvS has received retarded "criticism" but not because of that does CW deserves the same treatment.

Yeah most other Marvel movies are toothless, but this one is shakes the status quo pretty good, there doesn't need to be any deaths.

This one is too.

Honestly, its not about the death toll. Its about resonance. There just wasn't any. TWS had no death toll. Didn't matter. That film opened with Cap kicking ass for SHIELD and ended with him bringing the entire outfit down. Those are stakes. There's resonance there.

With Civil War, the same people who the film opened with are still alive, well & together in the end. Literally, Cap's same crew (plus Hawkeye and Lang) are out there doing missions no government ever approved, just like they were when the film opened. The "fugitive" thing is bull****. The Avengers haven't had handlers since 2014.

Come Infinity War, all of these people from Civil War will behave as if none of this ever happened. Jokes will be made, fights will be referenced, but that's it. No resonance.

Trust me, I wanted to love this movie. I love the comic and Cap's my favorite Marvel hero next to Wolverine. I just think its a shame his film got hijacked by Stark and BP in an effort to do a completely inconsequential Civil War Lite.

 

[GasparZizou]

Death as shock value gimmick like Game of Thrones is cheap.

Superman's death has a purpose in BvS imo, the fact that they brought him back is irrelevant.

And in CW there didn't need to be any deaths, at first when I found out they didn't kill Cap I thought they were pussies, but after seeing the movie, well, they don't need to kill anyone, it's not required for the plot and it would contribute little to nothing.

 

[Victοr]

Wow, yeah I've been lowballing Spidey too

Man you make me want to read Marvel comics again

Yeah, Parker's a beast. SpOck even moreso. Truth be told I got really tired of Slott's writing, so I dropped the current vol. I was reading 2099 as well, but it got too preachy for my tastes, plus, 10 issues in and he's still stuck in present day. Silver Surfer is dreadful and Strange is abysmal, but I'm talking as a longtime fan. If you have no attachment to those characters, they're nifty books.

From Marvel I'd recommend: Moon Knight (the new vol is crazy-stupid-good), Black Panther, Ultimates, Deadpool and Uncanny X-Men. Oh and Darth Vader. I'd also keep an eye on Nighthawk, Punisher and maybe Steve Rogers: Captain America. What you need to do ASAP though is go and buy Ninjak, Bloodshot: Reborn and East of West. Like, now. And I'm not even kidding...

It's still junk food.

Well, there's junk food you can eat and go "damn, I needed that", and then there's junk food you eat and go "...what have I become". Civil War, IMO, is the former.

 

[GasparZizou]

Come Infinity War, all of these people from Civil War will behave as if none of this ever happened. Jokes will be made, fights will be referenced, but that's it. No resonance.

I'm pretty sure it's not gonna happen that way.

Here's how it's gonna go down.

>Come IW Avengers are still scattered and fugitives.
>Thanos is going to come
>People will be like "wooops, I guess we need these "criminals" we call the Avengers after all, good thing they didn't sign those accords, Phew!"

 

[GasparZizou]

From Marvel I'd recommend: Moon Knight (the new vol is crazy-stupid-good), Black Panther, Ultimates, Deadpool and Uncanny X-Men. Oh and Darth Vader. I'd also keep an eye on Nighthawk, Punisher and maybe Steve Rogers: Captain America. What you need to do ASAP though is go and buy Ninjak, Bloodshot: Reborn and East of West. Like, now. And I'm not even kidding...

C'mon man, who you talking to? I'm not that casual when it comes to Marvel, you know I got that Moon Knight on my sights, and Deadpool as well

Also Vader.

Will definitely check out BP now.

 

[Victοr]

Am I the only one who liked the villain? Sure, he doesn't his costume, but in a way he was like a Bond villain mixed with Lex Luthor and I thought he worked as a side character that was manipulating everything. If this is his origin...not bad. Hopefully he wears a costume eventually.

I really liked Zemo as well, like I mentioned a few pages back. As a fan of the character, I was dissapointed some things were left out, but I loved him in the movie. Here's hoping he and Klaw are the villains of Black Panther. M'Baku and Killmonger should be saved for Part 2 or 3. Namor needs to be an antagonist in one of those movies though. A Wakandan/Atlantean war would be great.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Yeah, Parker's a beast. SpOck even moreso. Truth be told I got really tired of Slott's writing, so I dropped the current vol. I was reading 2099 as well, but it got too preachy for my tastes, plus, 10 issues in and he's still stuck in present day. Silver Surfer is dreadful and Strange is abysmal, but I'm talking as a longtime fan. If you have no attachment to those characters, they're nifty books.

From Marvel I'd recommend: Moon Knight (the new vol is crazy-stupid-good), Black Panther, Ultimates, Deadpool and Uncanny X-Men. Oh and Darth Vader. I'd also keep an eye on Nighthawk, Punisher and maybe Steve Rogers: Captain America. What you need to do ASAP though is go and buy Ninjak, Bloodshot: Reborn and East of West. Like, now. And I'm not even kidding...
.

Let me ask you a question since you're such a Marvel expert. Who do you take in a fight, Spidey or Darth Maul. Spidey with prep time and without prep time.

 

[SNIKT1950]

I find the complaints of inconsequential consequences and outcomes to be very valid at this stage of the MCU.

Feige won't let these movies matter. There's too much focus on what's on next to let what's on now count for something.

I honestly wish they'd done Cap 3 as just Cap 3 and saved Civil War for after Infinity War - where they clearly want every costumed hero in their stable featured.

 

[GasparZizou]

Let me ask you a question since you're such a Marvel expert. Who do you take in a fight, Spidey or Darth Maul. Spidey with prep time and without prep time.

You ****!

Definitely

Spoiler

spidey now

Spoiler

****

Spoiler

Just kidding, Maul still wins. It's closer than I thought though

 

[Victοr]

C'mon man, who you talking to? I'm not that casual when it comes to Marvel, you know I got that Moon Knight on my sights, and Deadpool as well

Also Vader.

Will definitely check out BP now.

Hey, I'm Moon Knight's Priest, I gotta preach! Kidding aside, the current BP run is really good, though it's bit too...poetic. It doesn't feature any "2deep4me" stuff, but Coates being a book writer tries to elevate it a bit. I'd say it's more akin to, say, Sandman than Batman. He blends a bit of real-life African culture, which creates a nice atmosphere.

As for Ninjak, Bloodshot and Esst of West, I'm not kidding when I'm saying that they're some of the best books I've read in ages. Both Marvel and DC have been playing it safe the last couple of years, but both Valiant and Image are firing on all cylinders.

 

[GasparZizou]

As for Ninjak, Bloodshot and Esst of West, I'm not kidding when I'm saying that they're some of the best books I've read in ages. Both Marvel and DC have been playing it safe the last couple of years, but both Valiant and Image are firing on all cylinders.

Alright, I'll take you up on that, will read those this weekend if I can.

 

[Victοr]

Let me ask you a question since you're such a Marvel expert. Who do you take in a fight, Spidey or Darth Maul. Spidey with prep time and without prep time.

Thanks man! Well, that's a tough one. With Prep, I can see Parker managing to break the force down and managing to "manipulate" it as well, to an extent. But, thing is, the Force is crazy stupid powerful, and Maul is crazy stupid good as well. I'm gonna go with Maul 6/10. Pete pulls his punches too much. Now, if this was SpOck, O'Hara or even Kaine, Maul would lose. As soon as Kaine unleashes The Other, fun time's over.