Captain America: Civil War (May 6, 2016)

[chewblacca]

The matrix should have stopped after the first one.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I liked the Matrix sequels. The first is the best though.

 

[jye4ever]

I want to revisit them, I just remember that horrible battle against a hundred Agent Smith's, that horrible highway chase cgi and that horrible goobly gobbly discussion at dinner with big breasted Bellucci.

 

[JAWS]

Oh yes you definitely need to watch CA:TFA again. It might not be on the level of the others but it's an underrated gem that feels right at home alongside the Indy movies and Rocketeer.

Yeah.. I think I will watch it later this week.. Maybe even tonight. I liked it but there was just something about it. When I think of the film I can only remember "action montage" and the CGI airplane ending that reminded me of Sky Captain and the World of tomorrow. But now that I like the Cap and Bucky characters so much It will probably be fun to watch it now.

If we switch to "favorites" and not quality then I'd replace LOTR with the SW OT. Then LOTR, then Cap trilogy, then ALIEN. I don't love Mad Max as much as some but I included it since it is another trilogy where the first two films are considered classics. I'm shocked you didn't give ratings to JAWS/JAWS 2/JAWS 3-D.

Yeah I did not se an issue with your list in terms of Quality. But I have to always go with favs and rewatchablitiy

I was not aware of a JAWS 3D... They made more after Jaws 2? I mean I heard rumors that there were others but I thought Nah... Not possible. I mean I remember someone also saying something about a JAWS Revenge movie?? All Internet rumors if you ask me.

And BTTF II a 9/10???? Is that a typo? It's like I don't even know you anymore. Other than the funny "Ric Flair gif" I thought that was a horrible sequel and I never consider Parts II and III to be connected to the classic original.

I will have to watch them again. I bet I have not watched BTTF films in about 10 years.

Having said that. I always liked part 2. I thought the future stuff was a lot of fun and I loved Marty going back to 1955 and seeing all the events again from the first film from a different perspective. I just never liked the Dark middle part were Biff tells Marty that he killed his dad.

I never found any of the films to be that that funny, just very enjoyable. Well not the third one. Blah. And I love westerns. Would have been much better if only a part of the film took place back then.

But yeah I love Part 2 (at least I think I still do) When is the last time you got to see it?

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I want to revisit them, I just remember that horrible battle against a hundred Agent Smith's, that horrible highway chase cgi and that horrible goobly gobbly discussion at dinner with big breasted Bellucci.

How can those two words coexist in the same sentence?

 

[JAWS]

Oh yes. Everything from LOTR to Noah has been chalk full of Braveheart-isms. The biggest medieval historical epics AND fantasy films of the last 20 years literally wouldn't exist as we know them had not Gibson provided them all the definitive playbook.

The Matrix was an edgy effects thriller but I think its "influence" tends to be overstated. Kung fu was nothing new, John Woo gunfights were nothing new, man vs. machines and "Chosen One" motifs were nothing new, its big gimmick was bullet-time and that was a fad that didn't last. Don't get me wrong, I still greatly enjoy the original Matrix but it doesn't deserve to be mentioned along with those other three films IMO.

Actually Blade did a lot of what the Matrix did first...

Blade did the look, the martial arts, the over the top strength, and the "world is not what it seems" thing, before The Matrix.

Add onto the fact that it was the first successful Marvel movie and you have a film that deserves consideration in influential 90's film.

Hell it even had bullet time

More respect needs to be given to Blade.

Don't forget Wanted, Inception, Kill Bill, Watchmen, Sucker Punch, Kick Ass, Oblivion, Equilibrium and even X Men (2000).

Kill Bill was more Asian Martial Arts films then Matrix. Wire Fu has been around for a long time before The Matrix showed up.

I want to revisit them, I just remember that horrible battle against a hundred Agent Smith's, that horrible highway chase cgi and that horrible goobly gobbly discussion at dinner with big breasted Bellucci.

Much of the Agent Smith fight is done very well and only the faces of smith are CG. Towards the end Neo turns CG and the scene turns to crap.

The Highway fight IMO is still great. The Agent jumping on some cars is bad but there are a lot of practical stunts in that one.

Two was not awful and could have been saved by part three but part three is awful IMO. Because of that I pretend it all ended after part 1. Neo is just flying around freaking everybody out

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Kill Bill was more Asian Martial Arts films then Matrix. Wire Fu has been around for a long time before The Matrix showed up.

But Matrix popularized it in the States, and audiences were conditioned to accept that nonsense because it became the norm for action films after Matrix, and Kill Bill used the same fight choreographer,Yuen Wo Ping.

 

[jye4ever]

How can those two words coexist in the same sentence?

I stand corrected!

Actually Blade did a lot of what the Matrix did first...

Blade did the look, the martial arts, the over the top strength, and the "world is not what it seems" thing, before The Matrix.

Add onto the fact that it was the first successful Marvel movie and you have a film that deserves consideration in influential 90's film.

Hell it even had bullet time

More respect needs to be given to Blade.

Kill Bill was more Asian Martial Arts films then Matrix. Wire Fu has been around for a long time before The Matrix showed up.

Much of the Agent Smith fight is done very well and only the faces of smith are CG. Towards the end Neo turns CG and the scene turns to crap.

The Highway fight IMO is still great. The Agent jumping on some cars is bad but there are a lot of practical stunts in that one.

Two was not awful and could have been saved by part three but part three is awful IMO. Because of that I pretend it all ended after part 1. Neo is just flying around freaking everybody out

Blade 1 was a movie way ahead for its time, I love that movie! That being said while 2 had a great villain it only got weaker after the 1st.

Give First Avenger another watch, like you I had reservations about it but it has improved for me, just watched it lastnight.

His arc that travels 70 + years plus Shield's and Hydra's arc makes for a compelling story.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Actually Blade did a lot of what the Matrix did first...

Blade did the look, the martial arts, the over the top strength, and the "world is not what it seems" thing, before The Matrix.

Add onto the fact that it was the first successful Marvel movie and you have a film that deserves consideration in influential 90's film.

Hell it even had bullet time

More respect needs to be given to Blade.

It's true, Blade did first a lot of the things Matrix got the credit for "inventing" or popularizing. Not just that, Blade 2 mixed live action fighting with CGI animation before the Matrix sequels did it too. However, sometimes it's not who does something first, it's who does it better that has the biggest impact, and sadly that doesn't just apply to film.

 

[Khev]

Actually Blade did a lot of what the Matrix did first...

Yep, hence my "not much was new" regarding The Matrix. Even the Wachowskis abandoned the inspired bullet-time effect after the first one. Instead of mounting a hundred cameras around an action sequence and taking frame by frame snapshots they instead replaced that visual with full CG renderings of the actors every time you "think" you're seeing bullet-time in Matrix 2 and 3.

Two was not awful and could have been saved by part three but part three is awful IMO. Because of that I pretend it all ended after part 1.

Yeah I was pretty jazzed to find out what the third one would reveal. It really seemed like it was going to be a "matrix within a matrix" with "real life" Neo being able to zap the HK's at the end. But nope, he just had magical powers.

Neo is just flying around freaking everybody out

Yep.

But Matrix popularized it in the States, and audiences were conditioned to accept that nonsense because it became the norm for action films after Matrix, and Kill Bill used the same fight choreographer,Yuen Wo Ping.

You think that Yuen Wo Ping's first film was The Matrix???

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

You think that Yuen Wo Ping's first film was The Matrix???

No, but both films share the same style of fighting, thanks to him. In fact, his US career in Hollywood was thanks to the success of The Matrix, believe it or not. Like I said, Matrix popularized that type of action in American made films.

 

[Khev]

I get your point about some movies not being "the first" to do something but rather are the ones to legitimize an idea or process which then gets everyone else on board. When people think of CG morphing effects they probably immediately think of the T-1000 or the Abyss water tentacle when not everyone remembers that Willow was the first film to introduce the effect with the morphing sorceress scene.

But I don't think that's the case with The Matrix. I think that movie was closer to something like the first Tomb Raider which then spawned copycats like Doom, House of Dead, Resident Evil, etc., for a few years then kind of petered out. It wasn't this massive thing and was certainly no Toy Story or Braveheart.

And again, we're just talking influence here, I'm not saying that The Matrix wasn't an amazing film, because I think it still is.

 

[jye4ever]

I think Wo Ping did become famous and very sought after due to the Matrix, if i'm remembering that correctly.

 

[Khev]

His stock went up yes just like many key players of any given successful film. Again, I'm not saying that The Matrix didn't have an impact, it did for a time. I just think it tends to be exaggerated.

 

[jye4ever]

It beat the crap out of TPM, the most anticipated film in history until Force Awakens.

Matrix was THE COOL movie to love in 99, not TPM.

 

[Khev]

It beat the crap out of TPM, the most anticipated film in history until Force Awakens.

Matrix was THE COOL movie to love in 99, not TPM.

No argument there.

I remember being shocked that a glorified Johnny Mnemonic came along and stole the thunder of the most anticipated film of all time.

 

[jye4ever]

And all eyes were on WB to show Neo flying, albeit dressed in all black, as a test bed for how Superman would look like flying with modern cgi, had never been seen before.

Then we got Superman Returns.

 

[JAWS]

But Matrix popularized it in the States, and audiences were conditioned to accept that nonsense because it became the norm for action films after Matrix, and Kill Bill used the same fight choreographer,Yuen Wo Ping.

Even without the Matrix, Kill Bill still gets made. QT influences for that film came from his love for Asian cinema. I guarantee he knew who Yuen Wo Ping was well before the Matrix.

Blade 1 was a movie way ahead for its time, I love that movie! That being said while 2 had a great villain it only got weaker after the 1st.

Blade 2 had better action and a couple of cool villains... But I loved the real world feel of the first film and there is no beating that opening rave scene. Blade 1 was the better story. If you could combined the story of Blade 1 with the action, direction. and villains of Blade 2 you would have a contender for best comic based movie

Give First Avenger another watch, like you I had reservations about it but it has improved for me, just watched it lastnight.

His arc that travels 70 + years plus Shield's and Hydra's arc makes for a compelling story.

Going to watch it tonight.

I get your point about some movies not being "the first" to do something but rather are the ones to legitimize an idea or process which then gets everyone else on board. When people think of CG morphing effects they probably immediately think of the T-1000 or the Abyss water tentacle when not everyone remembers that Willow was the first film to introduce the effect with the morphing sorceress scene.

But I don't think that's the case with The Matrix. I think that movie was closer to something like the first Tomb Raider which then spawned copycats like Doom, House of Dead, Resident Evil, etc., for a few years then kind of petered out. It wasn't this massive thing and was certainly no Toy Story or Braveheart.

And again, we're just talking influence here, I'm not saying that The Matrix wasn't an amazing film, because I think it still is.

I think the Matrix had it's moments and had it's influence. It just did not last IMO. Action films have gone away from all the Wire fu and super slow motion action scenes. Watching films today and you can't really see any Matrix fingerprints on films. Not Like Pulp Fiction and Braveheart still do. Hell even CW did the two small armies running at each other to brutally fight each other

 

[Khev]

Watching films today and you can't really see any Matrix fingerprints on films. Not Like Pulp Fiction and Braveheart still do. Hell even CW did the two small armies running at each other to brutally fight each other

Totally! With Pulp Fiction-y midcombat pop culture references as well!

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I think the Matrix had it's moments and had it's influence. It just did not last IMO. Action films have gone away from all the Wire fu and super slow motion action scenes. Watching films today and you can't really see any Matrix fingerprints on films. Not Like Pulp Fiction and Braveheart still do. Hell even CW did the two small armies running at each other to brutally fight each other

I think the Matrix influence goes beyond wire work though

Oblivion which came out 3 years ago is about a guy with a monotonous job named, Jack Harper, who learns that everything he knows is a lie, that he is the chosen one meant for something far beyond his boring life, and his entire universe was constructed by the villains

Also, the use..or overuse of philosophy and religious symbolism combined with action is something we are still seeing in movies like MOS, BVS and Nolan films.