Captain America: The First Avenger Discussion Thread

[jye4ever]

The Cosmic Cube is never in Odin's actual treasure room. The Frost Giant's cube is The Casket of Ancient Winters. In the comics Jarvis has it and it keeps him growing younger.

Spoiler

The Cosmic Cube is found at the bottom of the ocean by Howard Stark and if you look at Iron Man 2 when Tony is going through the notebook Howard Stark refers to it as the "hypercube", therefore alluding to the idea that Stark Industries got it's major push from using this to power it's first inventions. Also if you look at the Captain America Stark Industries example of a flying car, it's the same things that are seen underneath the Helicarriers in the comics. That connects Howard Stark with his work in SHIELD as referenced by Nick Fury in Iron Man 2.

Spoiler

I'm trying to understand the CC / Stark connection.

I got that the CC helped Stark advance his tech.

But did he use it later on to help with the tech being used for the car to float?

Was that his repulsor tech?

Or did it advance his Arc tech?

 

[Jaycepticon]

It does exist in the comics as the Cask of Ancient Winters.

oh yeah It was even in the Avenger's cartoon and I completely forgot about that.

 

[jye4ever]

oh yeah It was even in the Avenger's cartoon and I completely forgot about that.

Because of your failure, board rules is that I get to use your Avatar

So give it up

 

[Agent0028]

No switching avatars. It confuses the hell out of me. I usually glance at an avatar to see who posted instead of actually looking at their name.

 

[jye4ever]

No switching avatars. It confuses the hell out of me. I usually glance at an avatar to see who posted instead of actually looking at their name.

Me2

But I love his avatar

 

[Jaycepticon]

me three

 

[NosferatuBill36]

Saw it. Loved it. May have even enjoyed it a bit more than Thor. But both were extremely awesome.

 

[Khev]

I saw this last night. Being Saturday night, the theater was needless to say FILLED. I'm glad we got their as early as we did.

Anyway, I loved every minute of it. Evans as Captain America was fantastic, and I really enjoyed Weaving as Red Skull. It was interesting how pleasant the crowd was too. In my experience they're either extremely quiet or extremely annoying and rude. The audience last night was the perfect audience and showed emotions at the right parts. You could tell everyone was loving it.

The origin was done very well. In fact, it was my favorite part of the movie. Oh and who didn't love the USO scene and all those great montage scenes? I loved the fact that it was a "period piece" and had the original Raiders action/adventure vibe to it.

That's great. And I totally agree on the montages. A great tribute to the period, the actual original Captain America serials, and of course the famous cover of CA #1.

The only gripe I have is THE AVENGERS. Yeah, I could have done without any mention of Avengers or Samuel Jackson or any of that. The movie could have stood on it's own. I much preferred Captain America's exploits as opposed to all the little hints and mentions of the Avengers, especially at the end.

I'm on the fence with the ending. You could hear people sniffling as the ending was winding down and part of me feels it would have been perfect to end when the kids were running by with the makeshift Cap shields.

But another part of me appreciated Joe Johnston getting to follow through on his

Spoiler

modern day "awakening," just because that's such a major part of Cap's character as well.

With that said, I'd prefer "Captain America 2" rather than the Avengers. I think you could make an excellent, solo film about how Captain America deals with the present time, especially considering how much America has changed . . . for the worse. Also see his reaction to how elderly or deceased all his friends and allies are.

Well in the comics it was the Avengers who revived him so I'm okay with him being surrounded by them, but yeah, otherwise I'd prefer to see "Captain America 2: Featuring the Avengers" rather than the other way around. Worst case scenario if next years Avengers is disappointing I'll ignore it and always hold on to this flick.

Oh and, forgive me but I only saw it once so far,

Spoiler

Is Red Skull and Bucky dead?

Spoiler

Cap's regret about Bucky's death was a defining characteristic for over 65 years until the current establishment at Marvel decided to revive him as a brainwashed Russian supersoldier. I dismiss that notion, so you can take his fate in this movie however you choose. To me, he most certainly died when he fell off the train.

 

[The Mike]

I'm trying to understand the CC / Stark connection. I got that the CC helped Stark advance his tech.
But did he use it later on to help with the tech being used for the car to float? Was that his repulsor tech? Or did it advance his Arc tech?

Stark (Howard) was a SHIELD founder in the film continuity which means that a lot of his early work was devoted to government advances in exchange for government contracts. Now in the Post Credits scene for Thor, Nick Fury says that they don't know how to tap it, meaning Howard Stark never fully achieved what The Red Skull did. That is the missing piece of the puzzle how much did Howard Stark use it in the beginnings of Stark Industries or did he simply hold it and contain it since WWII. Remember that Nick Fury knew Howard Stark personally so when Tony was about 10 and his father made the Stark Expo diorama to try and come up with a new element to power objects, it is completely possible that he was trying to mimic the power output of the Cosmic Cube since they were never able to fully utilize it like HYDRA was.

The Arc technology on the other hand was a alternative power source created by Stark Industries in the 1960s as mentioned by both Stark and Stane that was more of a publicity stunt but came in handy when miniaturized as it powered the electromagnet in Stark's chest that kept the shrapnel out amongst other things like putting out so much power that it could power the suit. If you remember in Iron Man 1, the Stark engineers and scientists as well as Stane himself couldn't mimic or replicate the arc technology so the connection between Howard Stark who built the arc and his son Tony who miniaturized it is simple genius applied but it's relation to the Cosmic Cube isn't clear other than maybe it was another attempt to clone the power source. Remember Howard could never make it functional but Tony not only did but improved on the original designs.

 

[jye4ever]

Stark (Howard) was a SHIELD founder in the film continuity which means that a lot of his early work was devoted to government advances in exchange for government contracts. Now in the Post Credits scene for Thor, Nick Fury says that they don't know how to tap it, meaning Howard Stark never fully achieved what The Red Skull did. That is the missing piece of the puzzle how much did Howard Stark use it in the beginnings of Stark Industries or did he simply hold it and contain it since WWII. Remember that Nick Fury knew Howard Stark personally so when Tony was about 10 and his father made the Stark Expo diorama to try and come up with a new element to power objects, it is completely possible that he was trying to mimic the power output of the Cosmic Cube since they were never able to fully utilize it like HYDRA was.

The Arc technology on the other hand was a alternative power source created by Stark Industries in the 1960s as mentioned by both Stark and Stane that was more of a publicity stunt but came in handy when miniaturized as it powered the electromagnet in Stark's chest that kept the shrapnel out amongst other things like putting out so much power that it could power the suit. If you remember in Iron Man 1, the Stark engineers and scientists as well as Stane himself couldn't mimic or replicate the arc technology so the connection between Howard Stark who built the arc and his son Tony who miniaturized it is simple genius applied but it's relation to the Cosmic Cube isn't clear other than maybe it was another attempt to clone the power source. Remember Howard could never make it functional but Tony not only did but improved on the original designs.

You sir, are indispensable.

Grazie

 

[Nintenjoe]

somebody please explain to me what i consider to be a very big plot hole

SPOILERS OBVIOUSLY...

this has been bothering me since i watched the midnight showing. why does CA sacrifice himself for no reason?

here's how it goes...
once CA makes his way back onto the plane, him and red skull fight. the plane takes a nose dive and red skull puts the plane on auto pilot so the plane retains it's course for NY. after red skull disappears, CA takes the controls and without doing any investigating, tells peggy he has to put the plane down. now keep in mind, the controls were never damaged during the fight, so you can't make the argument that the plane was stuck on auto pilot. why didn't CA turn it off and redirect the plane back over the water and dump the rest of the bombs? this seems like a huge plot hole and makes CA's sacrifice entirely unnecessary. someone PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG because this is a really good movie, with possibly a very badly thought out ending.

 

[Wake]

somebody please explain to me what i consider to be a very big plot hole

SPOILERS OBVIOUSLY...

this has been bothering me since i watched the midnight showing. why does CA sacrifice himself for no reason?

here's how it goes...
once CA makes his way back onto the plane, him and red skull fight. the plane takes a nose dive and red skull puts the plane on auto pilot so the plane retains it's course for NY. after red skull disappears, CA takes the controls and without doing any investigating, tells peggy he has to put the plane down. now keep in mind, the controls were never damaged during the fight, so you can't make the argument that the plane was stuck on auto pilot. why didn't CA turn it off and redirect the plane back over the water and dump the rest of the bombs? this seems like a huge plot hole and makes CA's sacrifice entirely unnecessary. someone PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG because this is a really good movie, with possibly a very badly thought out ending.

Does it really matter? Honestly? THe intention of the story is that Cap has to sacrifice himself. What does it really change if he flies the plane into the artic circle or if he has to fly it into space?

 

[jye4ever]

somebody please explain to me what i consider to be a very big plot hole

SPOILERS OBVIOUSLY...

this has been bothering me since i watched the midnight showing. why does CA sacrifice himself for no reason?

here's how it goes...
once CA makes his way back onto the plane, him and red skull fight. the plane takes a nose dive and red skull puts the plane on auto pilot so the plane retains it's course for NY. after red skull disappears, CA takes the controls and without doing any investigating, tells peggy he has to put the plane down. now keep in mind, the controls were never damaged during the fight, so you can't make the argument that the plane was stuck on auto pilot. why didn't CA turn it off and redirect the plane back over the water and dump the rest of the bombs? this seems like a huge plot hole and makes CA's sacrifice entirely unnecessary. someone PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG because this is a really good movie, with possibly a very badly thought out ending.

I thought the same.

Why not just try a flat landing.

I also thought why doesn't he just use one of the little planes in the bay to bail out.

But then I remembered that the landing gears were damaged when he slammed into the rear bay, as were the other small planes.

Now, why didn't he attempt a flat landing without his wheels and instead chose to do a nose dive?

I don't know, maybe the controls were damaged afterall.

 

[Collectible]

pre ordered it wowowow

 

[The Mike]

Remember after Red Skull crashes into the compartment where the Cosmic Cube was held, he shouts "What have you done?!" before pulling it out. I thought that damaged the ship and FUBAR'd it. Plus after the cube fell into the ocean, the power source for controlling the ship, so while it could still fly any changes were probably gone without the cube powering the mechanics. That also means that he wouldn't have been able to get rid of the bombs or anything else since the controls were out.

 

[jye4ever]

Ninten, please disregard my post, I agree with Mike's version.

 

[Boba Ben]

Wowowowow

 

[Nintenjoe]

Remember after Red Skull crashes into the compartment where the Cosmic Cube was held, he shouts "What have you done?!" before pulling it out. I thought that damaged the ship and FUBAR'd it. Plus after the cube fell into the ocean, the power source for controlling the ship, so while it could still fly any changes were probably gone without the cube powering the mechanics. That also means that he wouldn't have been able to get rid of the bombs or anything else since the controls were out.

Ninten, please disregard my post, I agree with Mike's version.

that's a good explanation and i hope that's what the ending was going for case cause the ending is really bothering me.

EDIT: i'd also like to add that if that is indeed the explanation, they should've at least had an insert shot showing CA at least trying to turn auto pilot off.
also if the controls were out due to the cube being gone, why would be able to move them up and down, but not left or right to possibly turn around?

 

[The Mike]

Ninten, please disregard my post, I agree with Mike's version.

 

[Jaycepticon]

also if the controls were out due to the cube being gone, why would be able to move them up and down, but not left or right to possibly turn around?

that's not how things with wings physics work