Captain Marvel - March 8, 2019

[xipotec]

Haha, its very relaxing, you get focused like nothing else.

Unfortunately, my left hand is having tendon issues after years of guitar playing, keyboard gaming and woodworking, and its just not a reliable grip anymore.

This will probably be the last year I climb.



Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[ZE_501]

So I finally saw this movie yesterday. It was fun in the way that most expensive spectacles are fun, but I found it uneven with flawed editing that rendered it hollow and slow at times. It contained elements of the earlier Thor films and touches of GOTG but they couldn't seem to balance any of it.

Some of the best MCU films seem to know exactly what they are and lean into it -- Winter Soldier, GOTG come to mind. Captain Marvel felt like it didn't know what it was -- a buddy movie, a fish-out-of-water flick? A war story? It never did commit to one direction. It felt like a crowded paint-by-numbers set-up for future films, with some odd choices.

Almost as if they phoned it in so they could get to Endgame already. My thoughts in spoiler tags, not sure if we're still doing that in this thread.

Spoiler

In Act 1 Danvers and the Skrulls are straight-up murdering each other, but before the end of the film they're best pals who trust each other in no time, with just a throwaway line about war being dirty. The central conflict and resolution just felt rushed.

Iron Man and Captain America got 3 solo films along with the ensemble pieces in which to develop their characters. A character with a relatively complex origin complete with convoluted "Who are your real friends?" issues probably needed at least 2 or 3 films to explore and resolve each aspect of her arc properly.

This is why the Kree betrayal and the Skrull reversal felt rushed, and why there was no emotional weight behind Danvers' and Rambeau's reunion, or Danvers remembering her humanity and childhood. It felt like "oh we're doing this now". Rambeau's daughter cheerfully encouraging her mother to risk her life on a high-risk combat mission against freaking aliens was also too cute, cutting the legs out from under a scene that may have had some gravitas. I just didn't care about this little family because they were presented as cartoons.

Marvel has no shortage of 1-dimensional, one-and-done villains but they generally do a little better with their actual heroes.

Nick Fury gets his damn eye slashed out and they play it for laughs? His character in general was weirdly 2-dimensional and tone-deaf compared to all his other outings, reminiscent of what they did with Banner -- compare Ruffalo's performance in The Avengers to his anxiety-ridden, timid caricature of a nerdy science guy in current Marvel films.

I see where they were going with Danvers in trying to make her an icy, cocky action hero but some of her line delivery was just flat. I know Larson can act and has racked up an impressive list of awards between 2013 and 2016 so this looked more like a failing on the directors' part. Larson looked like she was reading instructions on a microwave dinner when IMO some adrenaline and tension was called for.

Ben Mendelsohn was entertaining to watch as Talos, whereas Jude Law came across as generic and forgettable. Easy paycheque for him sleepwalking through a flat role. Annette Bening was able to put some muscle behind her rendering of both her characters but she wasn't given a lot to work with either.

The action sequences were passable, although I agree that Larson looked quite awkward running for some reason. Some people are quite athletic but just not built for running, maybe she's one of them.

Many MCU films can be picked apart but good directing, charismatic line delivery and tight editing hides the flaws or renders them irrelevant to the entertainment factor; but after one viewing I can't give Captain Marvel a pass.

Ultimately I feel as if Boden and Fleck dropped the ball here, and I submit that Larson may not have been cast properly, although I'm willing to see what she does in her next outing with a different team of directors and writers. With her awkward origin film out of the way she may be able to play off of the rest of the Avengers and make the character more her own.

 

[a-dev]

Very good post.

 

[Sassafras]

So I finally saw this movie yesterday. It was fun in the way that most expensive spectacles are fun, but I found it uneven with flawed editing that rendered it hollow and slow at times. It contained elements of the earlier Thor films and touches of GOTG but they couldn't seem to balance any of it.

Some of the best MCU films seem to know exactly what they are and lean into it -- Winter Soldier, GOTG come to mind. Captain Marvel felt like it didn't know what it was -- a buddy movie, a fish-out-of-water flick? A war story? It never did commit to one direction. It felt like a crowded paint-by-numbers set-up for future films, with some odd choices.

Almost as if they phoned it in so they could get to Endgame already. My thoughts in spoiler tags, not sure if we're still doing that in this thread.

IMO very good review/post and accurate e.g. a lot of comments I've read on other boards say the same, more or less. Some really like this film...myself really hope Feige takes some of the comments in. As well as other movie-makers. E.g. stop rushing; at least try to remember cinema is also an art form...people like me like to re-watch time to time. I wonder if CM had test audiences - we know EG did.

Like I just re-watched Avengers 1 last night and still think it's just SO well done - an MCU classic. Music, performances, everything.

PS. Some of the uneven-ness u mention in CM tho IMO showed up in IW as well (multiple writers including James Gunn) - but IW had experienced directors too. Tho the Russos weren't "big movie experienced" at the start. But reading the "history" of TWS they seemed to have a very clear idea going in, of what they wanted to do. Also huge comic fans.

CM had what - 7 writers? and indie directors...maybe the Russos will change some stuff up in EG for CM.

 

[JAWS]

CM Haters were expecting the movie to flop so that they can scream about how much money it didn't make, but that didn't happen. Now they're saying that a Billion dollars doesn't equal quality. LOL

Did I just walk into TLJ thread

 

[JAWS]

The internet would be a much better place if people conducted themselves on it in the same way that they conduct themselves outside of it. Sadly for many internet conduct is the true self coming out because the offline facade is in place purely out of cowardice. I would love to see one of you Keyboard Toughguys meet Brie Larson in person. The trembling alone would make it worth while. But, once again if you get your jollies off making fun of a woman's appearance that petrified reaction to meeting Brie Larson would probably apply to meeting any lady in person

I agree for the most part... Except about meeting Brie Larson... That would not make me tremble.. She is just a person. Would probably enjoy having a discussion with her about her issues with white male critics not enjoying a "Wrinkle in Time"

Now If I met Captain Marvel.. I would tremble then for sure.

So I just got back from seeing it. Good movie! Not amazing by any stretch, but pretty entertaining and standard fare for a MCU flick. Not something that has much replay value for me, but I’ll still add the blu ray to my collection.

I will say I was a bit dissapointed in how Fury got his eye injury, and how the Skrulls didnt turn out to be the villains they were in the comics. I did like how she got her powers though, and of course Sam Jackson stole the show personality wise.

That seems to be most peoples feeling.. Harmless movie that was OK overall. Not the best the MCU has to offer but not the worst.

 

[JAWS]

For all this talk about $ = quality.. Look at this all time worldwide list.. Perhaps you should rethink your stance

There are some good films on here for sure.. But I would say there are some lesser films.

To say CM is not a success is not true either. I don't think MARVEL or anyone thought it was going to break the billion $ mark.

1	Avatar	Fox	$2,788.0	$760.5	27.3%	$2,027.5	72.7%	2009^
2	Titanic	Par.	$2,187.5	$659.4	30.1%	$1,528.1	69.9%	1997^
3	Star Wars: The Force Awakens	BV	$2,068.2	$936.7	45.3%	$1,131.6	54.7%	2015
4	Avengers: Infinity War	BV	$2,048.4	$678.8	33.1%	$1,369.5	66.9%	2018
5	Jurassic World	Uni.	$1,671.7	$652.3	39.0%	$1,019.4	61.0%	2015
6	Marvel's The Avengers	BV	$1,518.8	$623.4	41.0%	$895.5	59.0%	2012
7	Furious 7	Uni.	$1,516.0	$353.0	23.3%	$1,163.0	76.7%	2015
8	Avengers: Age of Ultron	BV	$1,405.4	$459.0	32.7%	$946.4	67.3%	2015
9	Black Panther	BV	$1,346.9	$700.1	52.0%	$646.9	48.0%	2018
10	Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 2	WB	$1,341.7	$381.2	28.4%	$960.5	71.6%	2011^
11	Star Wars: The Last Jedi	BV	$1,332.5	$620.2	46.5%	$712.4	53.5%	2017
12	Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom	Uni.	$1,309.5	$417.7	31.9%	$891.8	68.1%	2018
13	Frozen	BV	$1,276.5	$400.7	31.4%	$875.7	68.6%	2013
14	Beauty and the Beast (2017)	BV	$1,263.5	$504.0	39.9%	$759.5	60.1%	2017
15	Incredibles 2	BV	$1,242.8	$608.6	49.0%	$634.2	51.0%	2018
16	The Fate of the Furious	Uni.	$1,236.0	$226.0	18.3%	$1,010.0	81.7%	2017
17	Iron Man 3	BV	$1,214.8	$409.0	33.7%	$805.8	66.3%	2013
18	Minions	Uni.	$1,159.4	$336.0	29.0%	$823.4	71.0%	2015
19	Captain America: Civil War	BV	$1,153.3	$408.1	35.4%	$745.2	64.6%	2016
20	Aquaman	WB	$1,147.2	$335.1	29.2%	$812.1	70.8%	2018
21	Transformers: Dark of the Moon	P/DW	$1,123.8	$352.4	31.4%	$771.4	68.6%	2011
22	The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King	NL	$1,119.9	$377.8	33.7%	$742.1	66.3%	2003^
23	Skyfall	Sony	$1,108.6	$304.4	27.5%	$804.2	72.5%	2012
24	Transformers: Age of Extinction	Par.	$1,104.1	$245.4	22.2%	$858.6	77.8%	2014
25	The Dark Knight Rises	WB	$1,084.9	$448.1	41.3%	$636.8	58.7%	2012
26	Toy Story 3	BV	$1,067.0	$415.0	38.9%	$652.0	61.1%	2010
27	Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest	BV	$1,066.2	$423.3	39.7%	$642.9	60.3%	2006
28	Rogue One: A Star Wars Story	BV	$1,056.1	$532.2	50.4%	$523.9	49.6%	2016
29	Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides	BV	$1,045.7	$241.1	23.1%	$804.6	76.9%	2011
30	Captain Marvel	BV	$1,037.6	$374.1	36.1%	$663.5	63.9%	2019

 

[JAWS]

For the record.. CM does not even break the top 150 for domestic gross when Adjusted for inflation. It breaks in at 173... Which is still pretty good IMO for a CB hero that nobody really ever heard of or cared about.

 

[ZE_501]

Very good post.

IMO very good review/post [...]

Cheers guys. I go into all of these films -- Marvel, DC, Star Wars etc. -- with tempered expectations, a willing suspension of disbelief and a wish to be entertained and transported somewhere else for a while.

So I'm a willing fan with awareness of -- and forgiveness for -- the limitations of the genre(s). Not a hostile audience by any means, but within the context of the genre, my tastes have matured over time and I expect a baseline of quality to offset any inherent limitations or weaknesses in the material, so I'm not gonna let things slide when I know they're either cutting corners or dropping the ball.

This film has the same issues a lot of DCEU films have, it's just a question of degree. Too much in too little time = Saturday Morning Cartoon fare. With over 20 MCU films as scaffolding for this film, I feel this film was buoyed up by a lot of prior investment and good will.

My girlfriend is a very casual fan compared to us on the board, and although she also wanted to love the film, more or less agrees with my assessment.

[...] PS. Some of the uneven-ness u mention in CM tho IMO showed up in IW as well (multiple writers including James Gunn) - but IW had experienced directors too. Tho the Russos weren't "big movie experienced" at the start. But reading the "history" of TWS they seemed to have a very clear idea going in, of what they wanted to do. Also huge comic fans.

CM had what - 7 writers? and indie directors...maybe the Russos will change some stuff up in EG for CM.

Exactly. I think we may have discussed this in an Infinity War thread; IW is rad for a lot of reasons, but it also feels like one big set-up for the *actual film* we're getting later this month.

Film is extraordinarily difficult. So many things can go wrong. I've worked on indie productions that seemed so promising and for one or more reasons the final product was very dissappointing, even in the cases of some shorts winning this or that award, you're left with the sick feeling that it could have been *so much better*.

Often the problems lie with the director failing to connect with his or her actors, or in the editing room. This can be a personality thing or due to external factors like budgets and deadlines.

I'm always amazed that great films ever get made at all.

 

[ZE_501]

LOL ... in most cases I would argue that profit does not = quality. It's an accurate measure of popularity, ubiquity, convenience. But not quality.

 

[JAWS]

LOL ... in most cases I would argue that profit does not = quality. It's an accurate measure of popularity, ubiquity, convenience. But not quality.

 

[Malgus]

People still have heartburn over the obvious great success of Captain Marvel.

 

[ironwez20]

Nobody’s talking about it tho

 

[Khev]

People still have heartburn over the obvious great success of Captain Marvel.

 

[ZE_501]

People still have heartburn over the obvious great success of Captain Marvel.

Hey Malgus. I don't *think* you're referring to my opinion, but just to clarify -- I don't care too much what's succesful and what isn't. Lots of people and products and media are successful without meeting my personal standards, and just as I'm ultimately irrelevant to those products and people, so they are to me other than being an idle topic of discussion and critique.

I wanted to love this film going in; I don't hate it by any stretch, just think it fell short in several departments, mostly because the story they chose to tell and the character itself wasn't given enough time...and the actor -- Larsen -- wasn't given enough room to work. Based on her performance it's *possible* she was miscast, but if I had to point fingers it'll be at the directors, not Larsen, until she has a chance to get her teeth into the role.

 

[SilverStar17]

People still have heartburn over the obvious great success of Captain Marvel.

 

[SilverStar17]

The internet would be a much better place if people conducted themselves on it in the same way that they conduct themselves outside of it. Sadly for many internet conduct is the true self coming out because the offline facade is in place purely out of cowardice.

Agreed.

I agree for the most part... Except about meeting Brie Larson... That would not make me tremble.. She is just a person. Would probably enjoy having a discussion with her about her issues with white male critics not enjoying a "Wrinkle in Time"

Now If I met Captain Marvel.. I would tremble then for sure.

My sentiments as well. To be honest, if I saw her out in person, I probably wouldn’t immediately recognize her. I’m not really familiar with her outside of CM to have what she looks like ingrained in my head.

 

[JAWS]

Agreed.

My sentiments as well. To be honest, if I saw her out in person, I probably wouldn’t immediately recognize her. I’m not really familiar with her outside of CM to have what she looks like ingrained in my head.

I have never cared that much about meeting celebs. I don't get nervous. They are just people.

My Joke has always been.. I don't want to meet Harrison Ford. I want to meet Indiana Jones.

 

[Malgus]

Nobody’s talking about it tho

Wut? I still people trying to change the topic to captain marvel is not a good movie. They can't say it's not a success and be taken seriously so they are trying to say it's not a good movie and thus not successful.

 

[ZE_501]

Wut? I still people trying to change the topic to captain marvel is not a good movie. They can't say it's not a success and be taken seriously so they are trying to say it's not a good movie and thus not successful.

It's not an either/or proposition. I think for the purposes of a discussion people need to define what they mean by 'success'. Captain Marvel is undoubtedly successful financially, successful in the realm of popular opinion, and even successful as an MCU film. It gets the job done and it's kinda fun.

This is not mutually exclusive with my contention that it suffers from poor execution relative to finer examples of the genre, if we're going to compare apples to apples.