College Football 2011 thread

[VASith]

Wow do you understand English? Did I say it accepted the promise, no.

I said the police and the DA felt nothing criminal happened and Sandusky promised both them and the University he wouldnt do it again. So you think the university should have done something over something that was not a "criminal act" according to the police and the DA. Yet not once have you said one bad thing about the police or the DA yet you slam Penn st and even more Paterno. You are flat out an idiot. You are what's wrong what's with this world. You will listen to the idiots on tv and say what the say over and over never coming up with a single good argument.


And who are you calling a coward?

If you knew that someone you worked with was touching young boys what would you do? I'm not picking a fight..just curious what would you do if you walked into your company restroom and saw some guy molesting kids on several occasions. Would you want to be called a hero for not doing anything at all. What is more important...the abused kids or the legacy of the molesters and those who helped keep it a secret. Not picking a fight...just very curious. Having seen my first child born only 4 days ago, I'd personally kick the ____ out of anyone I caught touching a kid. I sure as hell wouldn't turn the other cheek for 10 years and let it go on.

 

[wofford29]

VAsith I don't think you're getting what they're arguing. The people involved with this scandal aren't with and haven't been with PSU for sometime now. They have been or are currently being dealt with. The punishment that has been delivered by the NCAA is to a group of people that had absolutely nothing to do with the scandal. That's what they are defending. I haven't seen anyone defend anyone involved with the scandal.

 

[VASith]

VAsith I don't think you're getting what they're arguing. The people involved with this scandal aren't with and haven't been with PSU for sometime now. They have been or are currently being dealt with. The punishment that has been delivered by the NCAA is to a group of people that had absolutely nothing to do with the scandal. That's what they are defending. I haven't seen anyone defend anyone involved with the scandal.

If this crime had been brought to light back when it happened there's a good chance all involved would have been fired and prosecuted. Therefore the wins don't count. Just like if you found out some althete was using steroids.

College sole purpose is to provide an education. As far as I know none of the students have been forced to leave. Every standing athlete is allowed to keep their scholarship and attend classes. Every single student at psu still has the right to earn a diploma. Not one single student is being hurt by this in terms of education...the sole purpose of higher education. They can still play football. They can still go to class. They can still go to parties on the weekend. And if they want they can still study and graduate.

The university turned a blind eye for almost a decade for one of the most disgusting crimes there is. Sorry but there has to be an example set. If not other colleges might think they can get away with it.

Again, no current student is losing a scholarship or chance to graduate. And instead of worrying about bowl games people should realize that young boys being raped is a bit more important than a football game. This guy bent these kids over in the showers while others knew it was going on.

 

[wofford29]

If this crime had been brought to light back when it happened there's a good chance all involved would have been fired and prosecuted. Therefore the wins don't count. Just like if you found out some althete was using steroids.

It was brought to light in 98 and the police and DA did nothing before it was ever a PSU issue. I agree that the wins should be stripped. It punishs a guilty party involved.

College sole purpose is to provide an education. As far as I know none of the students have been forced to leave. Every standing athlete is allowed to keep their scholarship and attend classes. Every single student at psu still has the right to earn a diploma. Not one single student is being hurt by this in terms of education...the sole purpose of higher education. They can still play football. They can still go to class. They can still go to parties on the weekend. And if they want they can still study and graduate.

I would disagee with college's sole purpose being that of solely education, but I do agree that they are free to chose what to do. I don't think they should be faced with this decsion though. They are innocent of being involved in this scandal.

The university turned a blind eye for almost a decade for one of the most disgusting crimes there is. Sorry but there has to be an example set. If not other colleges might think they can get away with it.

I agree and all those involved in the scandal are no longer with the university as a result. A better example to set would be to work with PSU, the community, and those effected.

Again, no current student is losing a scholarship or chance to graduate. And instead of worrying about bowl games people should realize that young boys being raped is a bit more important than a football game. This guy bent these kids over in the showers while others knew it was going on.

I think the vast majority of people understand how serious this issue is and again those involved have been or are being handeld. Communities heal with socializing so kicking a dog when it's down is going to make this a more difficult situation for an innocent community to heal.

I agree that wins should be taken away from Paterno and his statue taken down. I agree that the institution should be required to pay money for the years that the program operated under this scandal.

I disagree that the current orginization should be banned from bowls, and I disagrre that they would take away scholarships that would provide an individual the opportunity to get an education. None of these are doing any good to help anyone and none of these punish anyone involved with the scandal.

What is happening right now is like punishing your child for lying and then punishing the rest of your family because she is a part of it.

 

[Grenouille]

It was brought to light in 98 and the police and DA did nothing before it was ever a PSU issue. I agree that the wins should be stripped. It punishs a guilty party involved.

This is what really gets me after reading the Freeh report. The police chief 's statement from '98 basically saying there's no smoke here so we won't look into further just astounds me. If they would have taken this seriously then, so much wrong could have been avoided.

 

[wofford29]

This is what really gets me after reading the Freeh report. The police chief 's statement from '98 basically saying there's no smoke here so we won't look into further just astounds me. If they would have taken this seriously then, so much wrong could have been avoided.

I agree. This should have ended then. I'd like to know why nothing is being "looked" into with this situation and the involved parties. They should be looking at the same fate as Spanier and Curley.

 

[VASith]

It was brought to light in 98 and the police and DA did nothing before it was ever a PSU issue. I agree that the wins should be stripped. It punishs a guilty party involved.



I would disagee with college's sole purpose being that of solely education, but I do agree that they are free to chose what to do. I don't think they should be faced with this decsion though. They are innocent of being involved in this scandal.



I agree and all those involved in the scandal are no longer with the university as a result. A better example to set would be to work with PSU, the community, and those effected.



I think the vast majority of people understand how serious this issue is and again those involved have been or are being handeld. Communities heal with socializing so kicking a dog when it's down is going to make this a more difficult situation for an innocent community to heal.

I agree that wins should be taken away from Paterno and his statue taken down. I agree that the institution should be required to pay money for the years that the program operated under this scandal.

I disagree that the current orginization should be banned from bowls, and I disagrre that they would take away scholarships that would provide an individual the opportunity to get an education. None of these are doing any good to help anyone and none of these punish anyone involved with the scandal.

What is happening right now is like punishing your child for lying and then punishing the rest of your family because she is a part of it.

I'f your daughter lied to cover a crime her brother committed you would punish them both. If your kid went to a party where adults were serving alcohol to minors and letting them drive home would you want them punished? Would you be ok with them having another party the following weekend?

They are not taking away any current scholarships. It's a moot point. Every single kid there can graduate with honors if they want. The football players can play when the season kicks off in a few weeks. The NCAA didn't ban any regular season games.

And colleges were founded for higher education. That's it. Not to play football or fencing or lacrosse or water diving. It was so kids could go and further their education. And in this case every single student there can still do that. I don't think they are being punished.

As I said in a post a few days ago this is an opportunity for the school and community to show they can grow for this.

There are some here who seem to overlook just what a awful crime this was...it seems they feel worse for a stautue of a dead man than a dozen or so scarred people who were molested under their care. Again...what would you do if your kid was part of those summer programs. Would you say...it's ok some kids got raped.,,joe paterno is a good coach so it's ok.

 

[VASith]

This is what really gets me after reading the Freeh report. The police chief 's statement from '98 basically saying there's no smoke here so we won't look into further just astounds me. If they would have taken this seriously then, so much wrong could have been avoided.

It's because joe paterno was king in that town. Talk to anyone associated with sports in the area, he was above the law obviously.

Just like everything else money talks. Penn state is all that town has...they were willing to overlook crimes to make sure the money kept coming in.

 

[wofford29]

I'f your daughter lied to cover a crime her brother committed you would punish them both. If your kid went to a party where adults were serving alcohol to minors and letting them drive home would you want them punished? Would you be ok with them having another party the following weekend?

Everyone you mention here is a guilty party and should be punished. No student or current football player or anyone at PSU currently is a guilty party.

They are not taking away any current scholarships. It's a moot point. Every single kid there can graduate with honors if they want. The football players can play when the season kicks off in a few weeks. The NCAA didn't ban any regular season games.

It's not a moot point because it's not the point I was making. They are taking away scholarships for future student athletes. That's one less opportunity a young athlete currently in high school has to provide an education for themselves. They don't need to ban games to take away the reason they play the games.

And colleges were founded for higher education. That's it. Not to play football or fencing or lacrosse or water diving. It was so kids could go and further their education. And in this case every single student there can still do that. I don't think they are being punished.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you went to college so I'll speak about my experience for comparison. I learned more outside of the classroom than inside one. College provides an experience and sets the framework that helps to mold an individual. The classroom only serves to provide book knowledge and a piece of paper that says you've accomplished a discipline.

As I said in a post a few days ago this is an opportunity for the school and community to show they can grow for this.

I agree, so why not help the innocent that are left dealing with a mess they didn't create?

There are some here who seem to overlook just what a awful crime this was...it seems they feel worse for a stautue of a dead man than a dozen or so scarred people who were molested under their care. Again...what would you do if your kid was part of those summer programs. Would you say...it's ok some kids got raped.,,joe paterno is a good coach so it's ok.

I haven't seen this from anyone here. I don't doubt they exist though.

 

[Grenouille]

It's because joe paterno was king in that town. Talk to anyone associated with sports in the area, he was above the law obviously.

Just like everything else money talks. Penn state is all that town has...they were willing to overlook crimes to make sure the money kept coming in.

Oh I know how big a college program can be to an area. I went to the University of Florida. People look the other way many times for the protection of the program, wrong as it may be on many occasions.

 

[VASith]

Everyone you mention here is a guilty party and should be punished. No student or current football player or anyone at PSU currently is a guilty party.



It's not a moot point because it's not the point I was making. They are taking away scholarships for future student athletes. That's one less opportunity a young athlete currently in high school has to provide an education for themselves. They don't need to ban games to take away the reason they play the games.



I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you went to college so I'll speak about my experience for comparison. I learned more outside of the classroom than inside one. College provides an experience and sets the framework that helps to mold an individual. The classroom only serves to provide book knowledge and a piece of paper that says you've accomplished a discipline.



I agree, so why not help the innocent that are left dealing with a mess they didn't create?



I haven't seen this from anyone here. I don't doubt they exist though.

Yes I went to college..James Madison uni class of 96. I learned more there than the streets, but that was my experience. The primary goal of college should be education, not playing a game whether its football or darts or skeet ball And they are helping the innocent..correct me if I'm wrong but the money they are fined goes to support those who are abused.

As for the future students they can apply to other schools. Penn state isn't the only school in the country or the world. Current players who care more about football than their education can opt out and change schools for free. And psu wasn't stripped of all scholarships...just some.

This was the first time a major university was found to have allowed and facilitated the molestation of children. Heads had to roll. For psu to host a summer kids program knowing that Sandusky was abusing kids....not sure how anyone can defend that. And as for the people who are saying that is all being blown out of proportion and poor joe pa did nothing wrong...well, I don't know how to argue that.

 

[VASith]

Oh I know how big a college program can be to an area. I went to the University of Florida. People look the other way many times for the protection of the program, wrong as it may be on many occasions.

My point exactly. It goes from coach all the way down to players. Is anyone naive to think that some college player might have been pulled over for a DUI and the cop looked the other way when he knew it was the schools quarterback? What if it was a man who brought millions of dollars into a small town in rural PA. Money trumps all...even the legal system.

 

[gibby]

VASith - just keep in mind some people, including myself, wouldn't have been able to afford college if it weren't for athletic scholarships.

Also, as far as I know, these scholarships aren't being taken away and given to some other school. They're being removed from the grid completely.

 

[wofford29]

Yes I went to college..James Madison uni class of 96. I learned more there than the streets, but that was my experience. The primary goal of college should be education, not playing a game whether its football or darts or skeet ball And they are helping the innocent..correct me if I'm wrong but the money they are fined goes to support those who are abused.

As for the future students they can apply to other schools. Penn state isn't the only school in the country or the world. Current players who care more about football than their education can opt out and change schools for free. And psu wasn't stripped of all scholarships...just some.

This was the first time a major university was found to have allowed and facilitated the molestation of children. Heads had to roll. For psu to host a summer kids program knowing that Sandusky was abusing kids....not sure how anyone can defend that. And as for the people who are saying that is all being blown out of proportion and poor joe pa did nothing wrong...well, I don't know how to argue that.

I don't think we're following one another so I'll step off the carousel.

My wife's cousin went to James Madison. She's a nut over it and I was shocked when I walked passed this on the streets of Florence, Italy last month and had to take a pic to send her.

My point exactly. It goes from coach all the way down to players. Is anyone naive to think that some college player might have been pulled over for a DUI and the cop looked the other way when he knew it was the schools quarterback? What if it was a man who brought millions of dollars into a small town in rural PA. Money trumps all...even the legal system.

No doubt this happens on occasion but if you were a NFL fan you wouldn't be saying this after these past few weeks.

 

[Star Puffs]

The people involved with this scandal aren't with and haven't been with PSU for sometime now.

How can people take your opinion seriously when you distort the basic facts so egregiously.

Spanier, McQueary and Paterno were fired only after the scandal broke last autumn. Or is less than a year the same as "for sometime now".

Schutz and Curley are to the best of my knowledge still employees of Penn State, albeit on leave.

 

[Star Puffs]

VASith - just keep in mind some people, including myself, wouldn't have been able to afford college if it weren't for athletic scholarships.

That claim is an insult to most students. Regular students take out loans, work, use the G.I. bill, apply for need-based aid, or earn academic scholarships.

Your claim says more about a mindset of privilege that many top athletes show rather than the realities of financing one's studies.

 

[wofford29]

How can people take your opinion seriously when you distort the basic facts so egregiously.

Spanier, McQueary and Paterno were fired only after the scandal broke last autumn. Or is less than a year the same as "for sometime now".

Schutz and Curley are to the best of my knowledge still employees of Penn State, albeit on leave.

I'm really not sure why you feel the need to start off addressing me again as if you're ready to start a war. I thought we were through all that. There is no distortion, "sometime now" is a figure of speech that indicates a period of time, not a specific length, but I'm sure you're aware of that. How you define "sometime now" isn't of importance, what is of importance is that they're not with PSU.

That claim is an insult to most students. Regular students take out loans, work, use the G.I. bill, apply for need-based aid, or earn academic scholarships.

Your claim says more about a mindset of privilege that many top athletes show rather than the realities of financing one's studies.

It's not an insult it's a reality (he said SOME people). The same way your "regular" students pursue their avenues, athletic students pursue theirs, and without it a lot of times you'll find that these kids aren't interested. I actually find it more insulting that you speak of athletes as though they are inferior for taking advantage of their opportunities. Their is nothing privledged about the amount of work these kids are putting into providing that opportunity for themselves. I guarantee you that these athletes are working just as hard if not harder than your "regular" students. Of course you're going to have examples, but they fall into both categories.

 

[wofford29]

On a separate note. It's interesting that the people involved with the Freeh report had this to say today...

"That document was not meant to be used as the sole piece, or the large piece, of the NCAA's decision making. It was meant to be a mechanism to help Penn State move forward. To be used otherwise creates an obstacle to the institution changing."

"The Freeh team reviewed how Penn State operated, not how they worked within the NCAA's system," the source told The Chronicle. "The NCAA's job is to investigate whether Penn State broke its rules and whether it gained a competitive advantage in doing so."

"The sanctions against Penn State were really overwhelming, and no one imagined the report being used to do that," the person told The Chronicle. "People thought it would help others draw conclusions about what happened and provide a guide for leaders to be able to identify minefields and navigate through them.

"Instead, Emmert took the report and used Penn State's own resources to do them in. The institution is made of people, too. And they don't deserve this."

 

[user 1190]

So should people who pay be insulted by females, Hispanics, blacks, Asians , native Americans, ect... Who all can get special scholarships, grants, ect..

Notice at no point did I say white males. Yeah they don't get crap.

 

[Star Puffs]

I'm really not sure why you feel the need to start off addressing me again as if you're ready to start a war. I thought we were through all that. There is no distortion, "sometime now" is a figure of speech that indicates a period of time, not a specific length, but I'm sure you're aware of that. How you define "sometime now" isn't of importance, what is of importance is that they're not with PSU.

I was just surprised by how brazen a distortion you offered in order to justify your views. And no, I no I am not "aware" that "for sometime" has such a lose definition to the point it can mean any length of time. It means a significant length of time relative to a standard. That is subjective but neither a full year or football season has passed and you want to pretend like that is meaningful. Fortunately the NCAA, Big Ten and others whose opinions really matter did not agree.