David Ayer's Academy Award winning "Suicide Squad"

[Khev]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

I thought the TDK ending was perfect, even the Harvey stuff, what was wrong with it?

I just didn't think it played out very well compared to what came before. Earlier parts of the film all had better emotion, action, and/or suspense IMO. At least one of those elements should have peaked at the end instead of somewhere in the middle of the film.

TDK didn't have a "bad" ending per se, it just wasn't a satisfying crescendo of everything that had been built up throughout the course of the movie and that hurt it.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

That wasn't the end of the movie though. We still had a 10 minute Two-Face scene after that which was then followed by a 14 minute Gordon speech.

And two ferries full of people who "learn the value of human life" didn't make for a very epic climax either.

The ferries sequence is not really supposed to be an "epic climax" in the traditional sense like an action sequence involving a big final battle to save the world or a city. We kind of got the traditional action part when Batman is saving the hostages and fighting the swat guys and later the Joker, but that finale is meant to be more intimate. In fact, only several hundred people are about to get killed, including some criminals. It's hardly epic in scale. They were fighting for Gotham "soul" and the stakes are personal, and it's more of an emotional climax because the ferries could blow up at any moment...that's an actual possibility when you're watching the film for the first time, unlike say...the world ending in SS and countless other super hero films, because we know there are more films to be made. However, one of the ferries could blow up...Harvey could take a life...it's possible and it worked. I think TDK offers a very emotional climax where the stakes are high, without the need of explosions and chases to make it compelling.

 

[Khev]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

I agree that an emotional climax can be as good or better than an "epic" or action climax. ESB and FOTR are perfect examples of that. However as I stated to pturtle I personally didn't find the climax to end on a high enough emotional note. I don't mean high as in "positive" because bittersweet endings are often great, I just didn't think the finale was as poignantly satisfying as it needed to be. Obviously many people think that TDK is the greatest superhero movie ever made so I know that I'm probably in the minority in thinking that.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

Batman 89 is a very fond cinematic memory for me. I was a teenager and was visiting my grandparents that summer and went and caught the movie with my grandfather who was in his 60's at the time (he has since passed.) He had actually read the original Bob Kane comics as a kid and it was so cool to be there with him because at the time that was basically his "Winter Soldier" Batman except that he had waited freaking 60 *years* to see a serious and badass Caped Crusader on the big screen.

It was also the first time I remember people in the audience wearing apparel with the logos of what we were watching on screen.

Yup, Jaws laid the foundation, SW created the demand and 89 Batman reaped the rewards.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

I agree that an emotional climax can be as good or better than an "epic" or action climax. ESB and FOTR are perfect examples of that. However as I stated to pturtle I personally didn't find the climax to end on a high enough emotional note. I don't mean high as in "positive" because bittersweet endings are often great, I just didn't think the finale was as poignantly satisfying as it needed to be. Obviously many people think that TDK is the greatest superhero movie ever made so I know that I'm probably in the minority in thinking that.

I get it. I enjoy TDKR more, so what do I know, right?

 

[crows]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

the ending with the boats was tense as hell...... you knew batman was going to beat him but you didnt know if more people were going to die or not.
you didnt know if one of the boats was going to detonate it or not, it almost got to a horror movie element (like saw) ive always loved that. very suspenseful.
it got almost scary.

the ending with the hostages dressed as clowns was incredibly tense, batman having to fight the swat team was very good, you could feel how much batman had to do, how much effort it took. how tired he was getting. you always know the good guy is going to win but it was still a big struggle for Bruce. the bat vision was awesome.
the ending with two face was perfect because it was what the joker wanted, what he preached about. harvey went full bad guy just like the joker predicted.

that was the whole point of the movie... the whole point of the joker's journey, to corrupt. the ending with two face in some abandoned building with Gordon's family works because we saw how evil Dent became going as far as to hurt a child. a big action ending in this case (like begins or rises) would have completely undermine its impact.... the police getting the joker at the end was irrelevant since his work was over, he won. he finally won at the end.

he made dent a monster and he made batman break his one rule by going to save the child and killing dent and he made gotham hate the batman... the joker fully wins.

we didnt need another big action sequence to peak at the end.
the more psychological ending we got fit this story much more. this ending was the perfect outcome in terms of the storytelling of this movie.

it showed how vulnerable everyone really was, from Gordon to even batman himself, how corruption ruined everyone's lives and how corruption almost destroyed all their hard work trying to clean the streets.

 

[YoNoSe]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

I thought every element of the TDK climax stunk. The ferry mini-play was total cheese. The cell-phone scheme reminded me of Affleck Daredevil vision, but not as good. The Joker sounded like he had been reading a lot of Batman comics. Lucius Fox's sudden moral stance and smiley abandoning of it was convenient. Dent was wasted in a quick-turnaround Hi Two-Face, Bye Two Face plot.

I think there's good stuff in there but it doesn't feel cohesive to me. I still think the superserious-tone and Ledger tragedy added a false import to the film, combined with a young generation of film noobs who jumped on it like a lot of my generation who thought Fight Club was a drama.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

the ending with the boats was tense as hell...... you knew batman was going to beat him but you didnt know if more people were going to die or not.
you didnt know if one of the boats was going to detonate it or not, it almost got to a horror movie element (like saw) ive always loved that. very suspenseful.
it got almost scary.

the ending with the hostages dressed as clowns was incredibly tense, batman having to fight the swat team was very good, you could feel how much batman had to do, how much effort it took. how tired he was getting. you always know the good guy is going to win but it was still a big struggle for Bruce. the bat vision was awesome.
the ending with two face was perfect because it was what the joker wanted, what he preached about. harvey went full bad guy just like the joker predicted.

that was the whole point of the movie... the whole point of the joker's journey, to corrupt. the ending with two face in some abandoned building with Gordon's family works because we saw how evil Dent became going as far as to hurt a child. a big action ending in this case (like begins or rises) would have completely undermine its impact.... the police getting the joker at the end was irrelevant since his work was over, he won. he finally won at the end.

he made dent a monster and he made batman break his one rule by going to save the child and killing dent and he made gotham hate the batman... the joker fully wins.

we didnt need another big action sequence to peak at the end.
the more psychological ending we got fit this story much more. this ending was the perfect outcome in terms of the storytelling of this movie.

it showed how vulnerable everyone really was, from Gordon to even batman himself, how corruption ruined everyone's lives and how corruption almost destroyed all their hard work trying to clean the streets.

I really hope that Leto's Joker is given some kind of purpose in future films. Not just a larger role, but a meaningful role that makes him a great antagonist.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

Damn crows that's pretty good.

 

[pturtle]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

I just didn't think it played out very well compared to what came before. Earlier parts of the film all had better emotion, action, and/or suspense IMO. At least one of those elements should have peaked at the end instead of somewhere in the middle of the film.

TDK didn't have a "bad" ending per se, it just wasn't a satisfying crescendo of everything that had been built up throughout the course of the movie and that hurt it.

For me it was perfect, an ending that rely on explosions. Batman saving the hostages using his sonar was pretty epic in 2008, Joker laughing while falling off the building then his speech to Batman, Harvey’s descent, Batman taking the fall, and Gordon’s speech, I don’t know how the movie could have ended better than that

I really hope that Leto's Joker is given some kind of purpose in future films. Not just a larger role, but a meaningful role that makes him a great antagonist.

Reveal that Jino is actually Jason Todd and give us the real Joker starring in Affleck’s Batman movie. That would be perfect.

 

[ZaCHw117]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

I really hope that Leto's Joker is given some kind of purpose in future films. Not just a larger role, but a meaningful role that makes him a great antagonist.

4 chan rumors says he's shot something for JL.

I hope he kills Lois Lane. obviously that won't be in JL, but they hint at injustice so much in BvS, I think that's the way we're headed.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

I don’t know how the movie could have ended better than that

Bruce and Joker having dinner while Alfred watches them

 

[crows]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

I thought every element of the TDK climax stunk. The ferry mini-play was total cheese. The cell-phone scheme reminded me of Affleck Daredevil vision, but not as good. The Joker sounded like he had been reading a lot of Batman comics. Lucius Fox's sudden moral stance and smiley abandoning of it was convenient. Dent was wasted in a quick-turnaround Hi Two-Face, Bye Two Face plot.

I think there's good stuff in there but it doesn't feel cohesive to me. I still think the superserious-tone and Ledger tragedy added a false import to the film, combined with a young generation of film noobs who jumped on it like a lot of my generation who thought Fight Club was a drama.

i feel like every single second of leto as joker is absolutely cheese garbage but what do i know
at least the DK ending was made with a purpose in mind. Leto JINO could literally be erased from the movie and nothing will change whatsoever.

DK ending, it was made as the inevitable conclusion to the build up between joker, Dent and batman. you might not like it but you could at least see it as the inevitable conclusion to the story of two men trying to clean a very corrupt city and the agent of chaos that ultimately destroys their lives, i dont see how else could be done to make it fit perfectly


how would YOU have ended it?

 

[ZaCHw117]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

i feel like every single second of leto as joker is absolutely cheese garbage but what do i know
at least the DK ending was made with a purpose in mind. Leto JINO could literally be erased from the movie and nothing will change whatsoever.

that's not true at all, Joker is there to reinforce Harley like Zoe is for Deadshot, without them we just get cookie cutter characters, with no emotion attached to them. do you want a full movie of slipkots? he's not there to emphasize the plot, he's there emphasize Harley and build that relationship for the future.

 

[YoNoSe]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

i feel like every single second of leto as joker is absolutely cheese garbage but what do i know
at least the DK ending was made with a purpose in mind. Leto JINO could literally be erased from the movie and nothing will change whatsoever.

DK ending, it was made as the inevitable conclusion to the build up between joker, Dent and batman. you might not like it but you could at least see it as the inevitable conclusion to the story of two men trying to clean a very corrupt city and the agent of chaos that ultimately destroys their lives, i dont see how else could be done to make it fit perfectly


how would YOU have ended it?

I wasnt comparing it to Suicide Squad.

I didn't write it so I'm not responsible for supplying an ending but the existing ending was surely not inevitible.

I don't hate TDK just because I feel it's overrated.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

I believe the TDK porno version had a different, yet more climactic ending.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

I believe the TDK porno version had a different, yet more climactic ending.

 

[YoNoSe]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

I believe the TDK porno version had a different, yet more climactic ending.

I bet it had a prettier female lead.

 

[RIDDICK]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

I believe the TDK porno version had a different, yet more climactic ending.

 

[Khev]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

I thought every element of the TDK climax stunk. The ferry mini-play was total cheese. The cell-phone scheme reminded me of Affleck Daredevil vision, but not as good. The Joker sounded like he had been reading a lot of Batman comics. Lucius Fox's sudden moral stance and smiley abandoning of it was convenient. Dent was wasted in a quick-turnaround Hi Two-Face, Bye Two Face plot.

I think there's good stuff in there but it doesn't feel cohesive to me. I still think the superserious-tone and Ledger tragedy added a false import to the film, combined with a young generation of film noobs who jumped on it like a lot of my generation who thought Fight Club was a drama.

Yeah. Just because you don't end your movie with an action sequence doesn't inherently make it artistic or poignant by default. It needs to actually *be* artistic or poignant. Like ESB, FOTR, Heat, and so many others that feature a big action sequence in the middle but then go for the more low-key emotional finale. Civil War did a much better job of having the spectacle in the middle but then ending with a character making a speech (Zemo) and closing out with a respectively minimalist brawl.

It's obvious what TDK was going for but IMO it was a botched attempt. If for whatever reason I could only watch the last 15 minutes of any Nolan Batfilm I'd pick TDK last.