Totally agree. I think that Joker is the pinnacle of comic book "films" (Unbreakable/Split/Nolan/Logan) and that DC should go full steam ahead with that approach. Just do it with other characters. I don't want to see this Joker in a sequel and for the love of God please don't make this a "universe." This was perfect as is.
Oh crap you were going to elaborate? I thought it was silly to ask what you thought a split second after you said "pretty good" so I deleted it, lol. Okay what did you think then.
Yeah there was that one scene where he was laughing loudly as he walked out of the room and then instantly cut it short when no one could hear him any longer.
Totally agree. I think that Joker is the pinnacle of comic book "films" (Unbreakable/Split/Nolan/Logan) and that DC should go full steam ahead with that approach. Just do it with other characters. I don't want to see this Joker in a sequel and for the love of God please don't make this a "universe." This was perfect as is.
Maybe we've just become so programmed to expect 'franchise' but, before having seen it, my attitude is ''what's the point in a one and done origin movie about The Joker?'' What would be the point in a one and done origin movie about The Penguin, Riddler, any Batman villain or any DC character at all?
Why lay out this character so well and never have him being what he is ultimately supposed to be - Batman's number one antagonist? Instead go off and reboot again to make a crappier version and that's the one you keep going with? Wouldn't seem to make sense.
At the same time though I respect the idea of making something great and then taking no chance of ruining it with bad follow-ups - as happens probably more often than not. So I don't quite know where I'll stand.
Heck maybe after all the praise I've read on here I'll have been set up to be underwhelmed and not care one way or another.
But it's A-O-K when Meryl Streep and other celebrities give Polanski a standing ovation at the Oscars.
The media just won't let this movie go.
I've never seen a movie in DOLBY before, but I'm driving an hour out to see this at a theater that has it after work on Wednesday so I can catch it before Gemini Man replaces it. I'm really excited to hear the soundtrack with the huge speakers.
Maybe we've just become so programmed to expect 'franchise' but, before having seen it, my attitude is ''what's the point in a one and done origin movie about The Joker?'' What would be the point in a one and done origin movie about The Penguin, Riddler, any Batman villain or any DC character at all?
Why lay out this character so well and never have him being what he is ultimately supposed to be - Batman's number one antagonist? Instead go off and reboot again to make a crappier version and that's the one you keep going with? Wouldn't seem to make sense.
At the same time though I respect the idea of making something great and then taking no chance of ruining it with bad follow-ups - as happens probably more often than not. So I don't quite know where I'll stand.
For me I say it for two reasons. The first is that we've seen Batman vs. Joker many times now. The '66 show, Burton, TDK, and a little bit in SS. We know how that goes down whether it's high camp, a serious crime drama, or something in between. And even though this film is Elseworlds with no connection to any other it still somehow *felt* a bit like a prequel as opposed to a "reboot." It's just a prequel to a particular take that otherwise doesn't exist, lol. I guess I feel like watching this Joker have his first meeting with adult Batman, Batman brooding with angst about how Joker is intertwined with his past, they fight, Joker terrifies the city again and so on. Which I think would be a bit demeaning to what they just created and would be something best left to the imagination.
Also I think that this movie holds its own as self-contained film just by itself and that if this was somehow a brand new character that we would have felt totally satisfied watching what he became and then leaving it at that. Just like no one ever watched Taxi Driver and then said "all right, *now* who is Travis gonna face?"
Oh crap you were going to elaborate? I thought it was silly to ask what you thought a split second after you said "pretty good" so I deleted it, lol. Okay what did you think then.
I liked this iteration of the Joker. I really liked his backstory. I really liked Phoenix's performance. I loved his laughter, especially when it became painful.
The movie didn't surprise me at all though. In fact, it was exactly as I was expecting. The only scene that caught me off-guard was the imagined Beetz relationship.
I'm not certain how much I will revisit this movie. It was exhausting.
I really hated the new Joker look, but I have come around to it after experiencing the film.
All in all, the best thing to come out of DC in a long, long time... probably since Ledger's Joker (which I still prefer).
But it's A-O-K when Meryl Streep and other celebrities give Polanski a standing ovation at the Oscars.
The media just won't let this movie go.
I've never seen a movie in DOLBY before, but I'm driving an hour out to see this at a theater that has it after work on Wednesday so I can catch it before Gemini Man replaces it. I'm really excited to hear the soundtrack with the huge speakers.
Let me put it this way Warner Media is very happy that you posted that your actions was exactly what they intended.
No matter how good you may feel about yourself for sticking it to the liberal media that is trying kill Joker you fell right into their algorithm trap.
They want you to be angry.
They want you to be frustrated.
They want you to feel good about sticking it to them.
They are happy you are sharing your thoughts about their product with others.
So yeah good job putting CNN in their place you showed them lol
When does the Joker just kill random individuals though. Nicholson and Ledger didn't. Outside of deaths during riots they caused they only killed people who got in their way or ticked them off. I thought it was very "Joker-esque" for Phoenix to cause one of his followers to die and others to attack each other so that he could escape the cops.
I thought the film did a great job of portraying him as victim and villain without either side of his personality negating the other. And I thought the scene where he murdered the guy who gave him the gun with the "midget" in the room was very unsettling. It reminded me of Batty killing Tyrell in front of Sebastian where you don't know what Batty/Joker is going to do immediately after.
I loved how "human" they made all the characters. Nobody is a saint 100% of the time and no one is a **** 100% of the time either and the movie really showed that. Wayne wasn't perfect and Deniro wasn't a caricature, mocking Arthur in one moment but then showing professional courtesy and respect the next.
Other than the guys on the train I kind of felt bad for everybody, whether they were an enemy, ally, or Arthur himself.
He caused the clown army to rise while also directly fanning the flames of Wayne's contempt against said individuals. People on both sides died as a result
his fellow clowns and Wayne himself
and he just walked away laughing, like freaking Palpatine or Satan. But somehow a more sympathetic version of either (which is scary, lol.)
I even found myself thinking what if this had been done in Star Wars. Like what if Anakin was a psychotic nut job that only *imagined* himself a Jedi or married to Padme. And that the twist at the end of ROTS was that Padme had been married to Obi-Wan all along (and Luke and Leia were not his kids!) and all the heroic adventures he'd gone on were just in his head and that the reality was that Ben had only trained him for like five minutes before casting him out of the Jedi Order two films prior.
And then when Anakin goes to the Jedi Temple to kill everyone we realize that the people we'd thought he'd been fighting alongside the whole time barely recognized him before it was too late.
When does the Joker just kill random individuals though. Nicholson and Ledger didn't. Outside of deaths during riots they caused they only killed people who got in their way or ticked them off. I thought it was very "Joker-esque" for Phoenix to cause one of his followers to die and others to attack each other so that he could escape the cops.
I thought the film did a great job of portraying him as victim and villain without either side of his personality negating the other. And I thought the scene where he murdered the guy who gave him the gun with the "midget" in the room was very unsettling. It reminded me of Batty killing Tyrell in front of Sebastian where you don't know what Batty/Joker is going to do immediately after.
I loved how "human" they made all the characters. Nobody is a saint 100% of the time and no one is a **** 100% of the time either and the movie really showed that. Wayne wasn't perfect and Deniro wasn't a caricature, mocking Arthur in one moment but then showing professional courtesy and respect the next.
Other than the guys on the train I kind of felt bad for everybody, whether they were an enemy, ally, or Arthur himself.
I agree with most of this. However, if the movie never calls him implicitly as "Joker", would it change anything? If the movie isn't titled "Joker", will it be less good?
The movie didn't surprise me at all though. In fact, it was exactly as I was expecting. The only scene that caught me off-guard was the imagined Beetz relationship.
I agree with most of this. However, if the movie never calls him implicitly as "Joker", would it change anything? If the movie isn't titled "Joker", will it be less good?
Like if the movie was titled "Clown" and was not a DC flick? I'd still think it was great. And would probably be saying "This non-Joker Joker is better than the real one!" lol
It almost didn't feel like a DC film anyway and more like an M. Night Shyamalan or A24 flick.
When does the Joker just kill random individuals though. Nicholson and Ledger didn't. Outside of deaths during riots they caused they only killed people who got in their way or ticked them off. I thought it was very "Joker-esque" for Phoenix to cause one of his followers to die and others to attack each other so that he could escape the cops.
I thought the film did a great job of portraying him as victim and villain without either side of his personality negating the other. And I thought the scene where he murdered the guy who gave him the gun with the "midget" in the room was very unsettling. It reminded me of Batty killing Tyrell in front of Sebastian where you don't know what Batty/Joker is going to do immediately after.
I loved how "human" they made all the characters. Nobody is a saint 100% of the time and no one is a **** 100% of the time either and the movie really showed that. Wayne wasn't perfect and Deniro wasn't a caricature, mocking Arthur in one moment but then showing professional courtesy and respect the next.
Other than the guys on the train I kind of felt bad for everybody, whether they were an enemy, ally, or Arthur himself.
He caused the clown army to rise while also directly fanning the flames of Wayne's contempt against said individuals. People on both sides died as a result
his fellow clowns and Wayne himself
and he just walked away laughing, like freaking Palpatine or Satan. But somehow a more sympathetic version of either (which is scary, lol.)
I even found myself thinking what if this had been done in Star Wars. Like what if Anakin was a psychotic nut job that only *imagined* himself a Jedi or married to Padme. And that the twist at the end of ROTS was that Padme had been married to Obi-Wan all along (and Luke and Leia were not his kids!) and all the heroic adventures he'd gone on were just in his head and that the reality was that Ben had only trained him for like five minutes before casting him out of the Jedi Order two films prior.
And then when Anakin goes to the Jedi Temple to kill everyone we realize that the people we'd thought he'd been fighting alongside the whole time barely recognized him before it was too late.
