Doctor Who - Spoilers!

[bcm77]

Its too bad you doggedly allow your knee-jerk reactions to kill any possible open mindedness you might have otherwise have had about the series.

I really wish it were otherwise but my confidence in the BBC's ability to make Doctor Who watchable again has been battered to a pulp in the last couple of series and not even the impending departure of the people who're largely responsible for my change in attitude is as positive a sign as I hoped it would have been

 

[barbelith]

I really wish it were otherwise but my confidence in the BBC's ability to make Doctor Who watchable again has been battered to a pulp in the last couple of series and not even the impending departure of the people who're largely responsible for my change in attitude is as positive a sign as I hoped it would have been

But you'll be watching the next few specials and the new series, right?

 

[Blackhole]

Casting 2 leads that barely look like they've left school would seem a pretty strong indication.

Don't forget that one has no eyebrows...

 

[bcm77]

But you'll be watching the next few specials and the new series, right?

"Journey's End" was in all probability the end of my Nu-Who journey beyond the occasional repeat viewing of "Dalek".

Thankfully there's still plenty of 3rd & 4th Doctor stories still to be released on DVD plus a couple more complete 2nd Doctor stories so it's not like my intrest in the franchise is totally dead

 

[pixletwin]

"Journey's End" was in all probability the end of my Nu-Who journey beyond the occasional repeat viewing of "Dalek".

Thankfully there's still plenty of 3rd & 4th Doctor stories still to be released on DVD plus a couple more complete 2nd Doctor stories so it's not like my intrest in the franchise is totally dead

Net flix is sending me the Lost Stories vol 1 on DVD today!

 

[bcm77]

Net flix is sending me the Lost Stories vol 1 on DVD today!

Is that some of the missing Hartnell & Troughton stories that the audio still exists for?

 

[bcm77]

Don't forget that one has no eyebrows...

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

 

[pixletwin]

Is that some of the missing Hartnell & Troughton stories that the audio still exists for?

I think Vol. 1 is Hartnell and Vol. 2 is Troughton.

 

[bcm77]

I think Vol. 1 is Hartnell and Vol. 2 is Troughton.

Cool, I might look into those along with some of the other audios as it'd be something else to keep me going between DVD releases. I was reading somewhere the other day that Tom Baker is going to be doing an audio so naturally I'm intrested in that as even though he's aged in appearance his magnificent voice is still the same as ever.

 

[Kabukiman]

For what it's worth, I showed the pic of 11 to my six year old son and asked who it was, and he instantly said "The new Doctor"

I'm not sold on the look, or the actor for that matter, but I can't wait to see him in action!

 

[barbelith]

I really wanna know what name you post under in the other forums. I have a feeling I know of you.

Just caught this. I'm not anyone you would know. Like with this board, I read regularly to get release news etc but very rarely post.

 

[pixletwin]

Just caught this. I'm not anyone you would know. Like with this board, I read regularly to get release news etc but very rarely post.

Oh ok... Well Barbelith of Freaks is the name by which ye shall be known.

 

[ProgMatinee]

They never have, although of course with 45 years as a unflinchingly liberal program they're always going to annoy a few FOX types. Bear in mind gay people exist in real life and you've got the guy who created Captain Jack in charge. They're going to be in the show.

There is a difference between having a gay character and having said character make a homoerotic comment to everyone they see like Capt. Jack. I may be a conservative, but I don't think you have to be a rightwinger to get tired of that. I suspect straight and gay people could equally get tired by a straight character making erotic comments to each character of opposite sex they see. Its almost like despite the fact the creator is gay that he thinks the defining characteristic of a gay person is that they think about sex all the time and is disinhibited from keeping it to themselves....almost stereotypical and counter productive to the gay "cause".

Also, there is nothing "new" or "liberal" about mixed raced relationships anymore, so for a network thats supposedly so cutting edge, I think it curious that almost every romantic relationship in Doctor Who recently has been mixed. For the record the reason why it makes me mad to see that on the show is because its irrelevant as a social issue (atleast in America it is, maybe Britain has hangups on it still?). So when someone is trying to make a point almost at every turn when socially we're already there, you start to wonder why...at least I do. Its like they aren't satisfied that 10% relationships are mixed they want it to be 50 or 80%. Just weird.

 

[barbelith]

There is a difference between having a gay character and having said character make a homoerotic comment to everyone they see like Capt. Jack.

The entire point of Captain Jack is that there is no difference at all between flirting with men or women ... which is why it's so obvious what the critics' agenda is when they fail to complain about his comments to Rose and Martha etc.

Now we could make the argument that Captain Jack doesn't belong in a show watched by children, and that would no doubt be a fascinating discussion. But many of the same people who complain about Jack (and I am not assuming you are one of these) complain about the presence of gay characters where sexual undertones are absent entirely: I'm thinking here of people like the son in The Idiot's Lantern or the old lesbians in Gridlock.

I suspect straight and gay people could equally get tired by a straight character making erotic comments to each character of opposite sex they see.

I doubt it. Have you ever seen Gossip Girl?

Its almost like despite the fact the creator is gay that he thinks the defining characteristic of a gay person is that they think about sex all the time and is disinhibited from keeping it to themselves

Nothing of the sort. There have been many gay characters in the series yet only one flirts or radiates any sort of sexual undertone. The inability of some straight viewers to recognize this suggests it is they who are hung up on this stereotype as a "defining characteristic" ... and witness the way this is constantly spun as a gay issue even though Captain Jack flirts equally with women!

For the record the reason why it makes me mad to see that on the show is because its irrelevant as a social issue

Actually the continued commentary on this proves it's not irrelevant as a social issue ... as anyone who's been in a mixed relationship long term can attest even in 2009. Do a count of all the relationships we've seen in the show and compare the mixed couples with those of the same race and you'll see there are very few indeed. It only seems prominent because Rose was with Mickey in the first episode and Martha's dad left her mom for a white woman.

 

[ProgMatinee]

The entire point of Captain Jack is that there is no difference at all between flirting with men or women ... which is why it's so obvious what the critics' agenda is when they fail to complain about his comments to Rose and Martha etc.

Now we could make the argument that Captain Jack doesn't belong in a show watched by children, and that would no doubt be a fascinating discussion. But many of the same people who complain about Jack (and I am not assuming you are one of these) complain about the presence of gay characters where sexual undertones are absent entirely: I'm thinking here of people like the son in The Idiot's Lantern or the old lesbians in Gridlock.



I doubt it. Have you ever seen Gossip Girl?



Nothing of the sort. There have been many gay characters in the series yet only one flirts or radiates any sort of sexual undertone. The inability of some straight viewers to recognize this suggests it is they who are hung up on this stereotype as a "defining characteristic" ... and witness the way this is constantly spun as a gay issue even though Captain Jack flirts equally with women!



Actually the continued commentary on this proves it's not irrelevant as a social issue ... as anyone who's been in a mixed relationship long term can attest even in 2009. Do a count of all the relationships we've seen in the show and compare the mixed couples with those of the same race and you'll see there are very few indeed. It only seems prominent because Rose was with Mickey in the first episode and Martha's dad left her mom for a white woman.

I think you make a lot of assumptions about the complainers. I don't think you have to be a bigot to see these for what they are, agendas for agendas sake rather than actual story telling.

And no I don't watch Gossip Girl...lol. Usually I like my shows a little less blatantly juvenile...ie more about life than getting laid. And for the record I find things like Aerosmith music to be juvenile as well.

 

[barbelith]

I think you make a lot of assumptions about the complainers.

It doesn't take a genius to work out what's happening when someone complains about Captain Jack hitting on a man but not a woman, or when someone moans about the lesbians in Gridlock but not the various heterosexual relationships in the same episode, or when someone whinges about Rose/Mickey while glossing over her parents' storyline in the same series.

I don't think you have to be a bigot to see these for what they are, agendas for agendas sake rather than actual story telling.

But only a bigot would have a problem with that agenda. Nobody complains about heterosexual couples in Doctor Who.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Thats a bigotous statement to say "only" a bigot would have something against that agenda. Thats like saying "only a pagan would be against the seperation of church and state" which is clearly not true. Guess you're probably busy secluding yourself from traditional people to know that we aren't all "out to get you". Shame shame you haven't grown out of that victim mentality.

 

[barbelith]

Thats a bigotous statement to say "only" a bigot would have something against that agenda.

Nonsense. What do you think bigotry means?

Guess you're probably busy secluding yourself from traditional people

"Traditional people?!"

we aren't all "out to get you". Shame shame you haven't grown out of that victim mentality.

I'm not gay. But thank you for a very revealing post.

 

[ProgMatinee]

I know that to not be a bigot doesn't mean "agree with every agenda everyone proposes". If a gay man told me to paint my house orange and I said no, I must be a bigot. If you aren't happy with a scifi show promoting homosexuality, you must be a bigot. I'm sorry, thats just not fair. I think your attitude to the word "traditional" is very informative on exactly the attitude that there is an "us vs them" mentality and that you probably seperate yourself further from others than they do from you. But I'm done being personal. I'll leave it that I highly disagree with being labeled a bigot...I'm not out there discriminating and harassing anyone living their life the way they intend, which is what I think being a bigot means.

Regardless, my approval of certain causes is irrelevant, the more Doctor Who focuses on trying to make a social commentary the less enjoyable I think it is and thats my point. Others may find that a redeeming quality, but usually I find it to be overly preachy and tedious and occassionally subterfuge to the story. I would say the exact same thing if the show was constantly harping IN FAVOR of things I agree with. I might find it to be selfcongratulating or something, but it wouldn't be what I'm looking for in a sci-fi adventure story, the 700 Club is there for that. LOL.

 

[barbelith]

If a gay man told me to paint my house orange and I said no, I must be a bigot.

When has this ever happened?

If you aren't happy with a scifi show promoting homosexuality, you must be a bigot.

What does it mean to promote homosexuality? Do you mean simply featuring gay characters? Presenting gay characters as the moral equivalent of straight characters? Trying to make viewers switch teams when they switch off?

I think your attitude to the word "traditional" is very informative on exactly the attitude that there is an "us vs them" mentality and that you probably seperate yourself further from others than they do from you.

My objection to the word "traditional" is that it's really just code for "people who think like me." It doesn't mean anything and serves only to short circuit real discussion of uncomfortable issues. Traditional people objected to the Civil Rights Act. I could well say traditional people embrace socialist programs and point to FDR winning four elections.

I'll leave it that I highly disagree with being labeled a bigot.

Bigots often do. Look back at your last few posts. Instead of actually laying out an argument or deconstructing mine, you went straight for personal attacks and innuendo. It's very instructive. In fact you did this after I explicitly said I was not making any assumptions about you re: my list of double standards and hypocritical observations.

I'm not out there discriminating and harassing anyone living their life the way they intend

You just want to whitewash them off television?

Regardless, my approval of certain causes is irrelevant, the more Doctor Who focuses on trying to make a social commentary the less enjoyable I think it is and thats my point.

Doctor Who has always made social commentary, whether on a very basic level as with Galaxy Four or more complex level as with The Silurians or a rather sophisticated level as with Survival. It's always been there. What's the point of fiction if it isn't about something?