Doctor Who - Spoilers!

[d_jedi1]

ugh
So it's devolved into another "gay agenda discussion" now?

I thought everyone had moved past that after Series one when Jack first came on.

Anyway.. back to the spoilers
The new TARDIS is being revealed now
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowb...ssionid=BDEDC136002728F92827057607331DE7First
this link has a slideshow
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/tv/2544807/Filming-begins-on-new-Doctor-Who.html

 

[Kabukiman]

ugh
So it's devolved into another "gay agenda discussion" now?

This thread has two speeds:

1) I hate the new series and I will let you know this every 5 minutes.

and

2) ZOMGS!11!! IT'S TEH GAY AGENDA!!!one!!!

 

[pixletwin]

 

[barbelith]

 

[bcm77]

I hate the new series and I will let you know this every 5 minutes.

If Nu-Who had been decent since the end of the second series I'd talk about it just as much but beyond the odd character design like the Ood, Judoon or new look Sontarans I can't find any redeeming qualities in it.

And from the evidence I've seen so far the new regime looks like it's going to be just as ham fisted as the previous one so I'm just venting my frustrations that something I used to enjoy looks like it's never going to be worth watching again as it was about the only modern show in the schedules that was worth bothering with which was also why I persisted the last couple of years as I thought it might improve again.

I'm sorry my view isn't yours or indeed the majority one but there's no reason to take petty pot shots at me just because I don't like the more recent series of Nu-Who

 

[ProgMatinee]

maybe there can be multiple Dr. Who threads. One for classic who, one for nu-Who and one for people who call others bigots just because they don't like Captain Jack.

 

[Darren Carnall]

This thread has two speeds:

1) I hate the new series and I will let you know this every 5 minutes.

and

2) ZOMGS!11!! IT'S TEH GAY AGENDA!!!one!!!

 

[pixletwin]

...I'm just venting my frustrations that something I used to enjoy looks like it's never going to be worth watching again ...

If you are getting frustrated by a television show it might be best to take a couple steps away from it just for a little while.

 

[pixletwin]

Oh. New sonic screwdriver.

 

[barbelith]

maybe there can be multiple Dr. Who threads. One for classic who, one for nu-Who and one for people who call others bigots just because they don't like Captain Jack.

I don't like Captain Jack. That's not why you're a bigot.

 

[bcm77]

If you are getting frustrated by a television show it might be best to take a couple steps away from it just for a little while.

OK,OK I get the picture, I'm done with this thread and indeed site. I hope you are all happy now.

 

[pixletwin]

OK,OK I get the picture, I'm done with this thread and indeed site. I hope you are all happy now.

What gives? Noone was trying to be unkind to you (at least for my part). Its just that we know how you feel and I think its a little bit much to be hating on series 5 when filming just barely started yesterday. Doesn't that seem a little odd to you? Its barely out of the gate and you are already trying to shoot the horse.

For me its like this. Lets say you are at an amusement park and you have been on this ride that you really loved and each time you get back in line to ride it again there is a guy with a sour expression and a picket sign yelling how crappy the ride is and how the ride which used to occupy the same place is better. It would get a bit tedious, don't you agree?

I just wondered - because you are so obviously passionate in your dislike for the new series - why you keep coming in here to post the same vitrol you always do? Maybe Prog is right and we do need a classic series thread? I dunno. I don't think you should pack up and leave though.

 

[ProgMatinee]

I don't like Captain Jack. That's not why you're a bigot.

Well, I'm starting to take that as a compliment from you. There are a lot of causes in this world, to call people bigots for not agreeing with one or two of them seems a bit rude to me. I suspect (based on your hostile reaction here) you're probably against some of the things I believe and probably would actively and angerly and maliciously fight against them a lot harder than I've ever done (considering as far as you know the worst thing I've ever done to a gay person was to state in a toy forum how I don't like that Capt. Jack repeatedly makes erotic comments). Man I hope GLAAD or something doesn't hunt me down and file a class action suit against me.

Would it make you feel better if I told you I listen to the Smiths and Morrissey? The reason I jokingly say that is outside of a Doctor Who thread you really have no clue of my positions and to what levels I may or may not have put them into some sort of action plan. And therefore you really have no place to insinuate anything about me. Period.

 

[barbelith]

There are a lot of causes in this world, to call people bigots for not agreeing with one or two of them seems a bit rude to me.

I don't think you're a bigot because you disagree with me. I think you're a bigot because you appear to relegate gay people to a different and unequal status than "traditional people" enjoy and seem to want to whitewash gay characters off our screens. This is underlined by your tendency to assume that anyone who doesn't feel this way must obviously be gay - indeed all your talk about "us vs them" comes across as the way you actually feel.

This is my impression from your posts, and your failure to discuss these sorts of issues in favor of engaging in personal attacks and utterly absurd scenarios like painting houses orange. I mean, are you going to explain what you mean by promoting homosexuality, for example?

Now maybe you just don't like Captain Jack because you don't like any kind of flirtation in Doctor Who. Fair enough. But if you only object to his homosexual flirting, or if you actually think characters like the lesbians in Gridlock are part of some damaging agenda and shouldn't be in the show then yeah, you're a bigot. Sorry. Maybe you have some thinking to do.

 

[ProgMatinee]

"Promoting homosexuality" means to me a purposeful agenda to further their acceptance. Thats fine and dandy and not something I'm arguing for or against...but I question its relevance to Doctor Who. The writers for the show appear to be using Doctor Who to further what ever their personal beliefs are. For me, its unnecessary. Maybe long time fans like yourself feel its Doctor Who's place, but for me, I think of Doctor Who as a sci-fi adventure show and not really a "think about your position on social issues" type show.

Personally, I like social issues shows (such as the really great but short lived Joan of Arcadia). I also happen to like Ugly Betty which in fact my favorite character is a homosexual. So I directly contradict the "you want to white wash them off the screen". The existence of gay characters on that show doesn't get me upset, nor do I get a feel of there being an "agenda." The characters are simply who the character are supposed to be. No special agenda, IMO.

I find the writers of Doctor Who habitually STRETCH a lot on social issues and to me the OBVIOUSNESS of it (NOT the existance of it) is what turns me off. They glaringly TRY TOO HARD. Thats all I'm saying.

You turning my dislike for obvious political or social agendas in sci-fi adventure shows into "you're a bigot" is what I see as the "us vs them" mentality. You just jumped to the conclusion that since I don't enjoy being lectured to that I must have some big problem with gays. That is where my admitedly poor analogy of orange houses come in.

sci-fi adventure tv show = orange houses
Used in sentances:
If homosexuals want to use Doctor Who to express themselves, I either support it or I'm a bigot.
If homosexuals want me to paint my house orange I either do it or I'm a bigot.

Its not the best analogy, but I thought it fit. You're saying I either accept the method of making a statement or I'm a bigot.

 

[pixletwin]

I understand what you mean prog. You don't like every word out of the Jack's mouth to be some quip about his sexuality. Yeah?

 

[barbelith]

"Promoting homosexuality" means to me a purposeful agenda to further their acceptance.

But if you don't have a problem with gay people, why is this even an issue for you? Do you believe including gay characters such as the old lesbians in Gridlock are promoting homosexuality or do you see it as innocuous as the straight couples featured in the same episode? There are far more straight characters in Doctor Who than gay characters - would you make the argument Doctor Who is promoting heterosexuality, and is this also an issue for you?

When someone has a problem with the idea that gay people should be accepted as normal ... yeah, bigot. These people often seem to mistake presence for agenda. There are gay people on Doctor Who because there are gay people in the world.

You turning my dislike for obvious political or social agendas in sci-fi adventure shows into "you're a bigot" is what I see as the "us vs them" mentality.

I see the mentality in comments like the frankly bizarre and offensive "traditional people" statement, which historically is language used to justify all manner of bigoted actions and beliefs. If you honestly have no problem with gay characters in Doctor Who when their homosexuality is incidental (for example Sky in Midnight) then no, I don't think you're a bigot. Your earlier comments led me to believe you think the presence of gay characters in the show should be terminated for whatever reason. That's bigotry. If you have a problem with Captain Jack flirting with men but not women, that's bigotry. As I said earlier, maybe you just have a problem with flirting in Doctor Who full stop.

If homosexuals want to use Doctor Who to express themselves, I either support it or I'm a bigot.

This is where your language gets problematic again. What does it mean to express themselves? Are straight producers expressing themselves when their shows depict straight relationships? Why is there a double standard?

 

[barbelith]

I understand what you mean prog. You don't like every word out of the Jack's mouth to be some quip about his sexuality. Yeah?

Just so we're all clear, I don't like this either.

 

[pixletwin]

Just so we're all clear, I don't like this either.

And thats ok. But it doesn't make him a bigot because he would like the "loudness" of a Jack's character to be tones down a bit.

 

[barbelith]

But it doesn't make him a bigot because he would like the "loudness" of a Jack's character to be tones down a bit.

I agree - as long as he's equally opposed to heterosexual flirtation at the same volume.

ETA: I'm not interested in figuring out whether one of us is a bigot or not. I think that's a waste of time, and I've been careful to discuss specific comments rather than just whip out the double barrels at Prog in general. But the broader issue is worth discussing (should gay people be allowed to be on Doctor Who, and what does it mean if they are/aren't) since the GAY AGENDA!!!1! comments haven't died off after four years.