Doctor Who - Spoilers!

[Darren Carnall]

i dont see the big deal. It's an allien that changes every time it dies.... of course it can be anything. And as long as the stories are good... does it really matter?

 

[barbelith]

No, this has to stop. The Doctor should never be regenerated into a female. Why? Remember that the Doctor has a granddaughter, so Timelords do procreate. Wouldn't having your father or grandfather suddenly turn into a woman kind of screw you up as a child?

Not if that's your culture. Certainly not any more than your grandfather suddenly getting a whole new face and personality.

What about that Timelord's spouse, or any other kinds of romantic relationships that person has had?

Honestly I'd say if you'd stop loving your wife because she magically turned into a man, you never really loved her at all.

It's just getting weird. Why try to change the show sooo much.

The show is about change, and in any case I think many disagree it would actually change anything beyond surface appearance. How would the show be fundamentally different with a female Doctor?

I don't know if the fan base would follow the whole gender transfer thing its just tooo out there.

This is a show about a man who travels through time and space in a magic box that bigger on the inside than the outside and who every so often changes his face and personality. It doesn't get much more out there than that.

I wonder how many of the "no change" people are political conservatives?

 

[Memnoch]

I wonder how many of the "no change" people are political conservatives?

ABSOLUTELY NO POLITICS IN THE DOCTOR WHO THREAD!!

 

[barbelith]

ABSOLUTELY NO POLITICS IN THE DOCTOR WHO THREAD!

No, I didn't mean it that way. I'm just interested in the neurological side of this sort of thing. Not a causal relationship between politics and resistance to change in Doctor Who but rather the neurological phenomenon behind even that. Just curious.

 

[El Skutto]

Again, Barbelith, you take anyone whose opinion is different than yours and accuse them of being racist, or misogynist, or conservative or whatever. When the hell did the BBC appoint you as the lord and master of all things Doctor Who?

It normally takes a LOT to get me to add other posters to the ignore list, but you're dangerously close to being the first. You don't agree with me, then fine. But keep your smartass comments to yourself from now on.

 

[barbelith]

Again, Barbelith, you take anyone whose opinion is different than yours and accuse them of being racist, or misogynist, or conservative or whatever.

Well in fact I haven't done this at all.

 

[bcm77]

The comedy David pulls off.

In which point during his run did this occur?

 

[Darklord Dave]

In which point during his run did this occur?

Pretty much every episode - although I thought Eccleston was funnier.

Let

 

[Saya]

The only time I could even imagen the Dr. as a female was when Donna took on the essence or characteristics of the Dr. in one of the episodes. It was very entertaining. I must say I really enjoyed her performance. However I can't see that being enjoyable on a permanant bases. I do Agree about Eccleston and also Rose for that matter. They will always will remain my favorites.

 

[bcm77]

Pretty much every episode

Your definition of comedy must be different to mine.

If the bit where Donna took on the Doctor's personality was any indication of what a female would be like in the role then that's all the reason I need never to want it to happen as that was one of the most fingernails-on-chalkboard irritating bits of TV I've seen this year,a bad impression of a bad Doctor really sealed my opinion of Catherine Tate and series 4 in general.

On the other hand MAYBE it could work if the character was something along the lines of Romana II and not just a stereotypical "action girl" but I think the show has lost much of it's identity as it is and changing something as major as the lead characters gender would likely alienate some of the old school fans even more than RTD has managed to.

 

[pixletwin]

The Doctor will never be a woman. End. Of. Story.

 

[bcm77]

The Doctor will never be a woman. End. Of. Story.

Well now that RTD is going I think the chance of it happening has lessened but who knows what Moffatt or whoever follows him has in mind?

 

[barbelith]

If the bit where Donna took on the Doctor's personality was any indication of what a female would be like in the role then that's all the reason I need never to want it to happen as that was one of the most fingernails-on-chalkboard irritating bits of TV I've seen this year,a bad impression of a bad Doctor really sealed my opinion of Catherine Tate and series 4 in general.

There's no reason to assume one woman's performance would reflect all women's performance. We might as well expect the 12 major male Doctors (I'm including the films and Scream of the Shalka here as they show yet more ways to portray the character) to be just like Jon Pertwee. Which they weren't.

I think the show has lost much of it's identity as it is and changing something as major as the lead characters gender would likely alienate some of the old school fans even more than RTD has managed to.

When you say the show has lost much of its identity, which specific things do you have in mind? And can you explain how changing the Doctor's gender would be a major alteration for the show? Which specific qualities would vanish or irrevocably alter?

To be honest I think the new series would be still a massive ratings hit even if every last old school fan vanished into the ether. There just aren't as many of us as we like to think. This is a new series made for today's audience, which is as it should be. What's the point in making 1970s television today? Or more to the point, how many old school fans quit watching because the Tom Baker years were nothing like William Hartnell, or because The Deadly Assassin ignored almost every piece of earlier Time Lord continuity? Did audiences run screaming when the show was completely reinvented from the ground up in 1970 in repudiation of everything that had come before?

The Deadly Assassin is a great example because fan material at the time shows the old school fans were positively livid, whereas today it's considered a stone cold classic. There are kids today who will look back at "the one with the floating balls" or whatever in the same way.

Well now that RTD is going I think the chance of it happening has lessened but who knows what Moffatt or whoever follows him has in mind?

Well bear in mind Moffat is the guy who crafted Captain Jack and gave the Doctor two romances and a future wife. To say nothing of reportedly wanting to cast the first black Doctor. Judging by his previous work I suspect we're likely to see Doctor Who push even further than RTD brought it.

And a good thing, too. I love the old stuff, but we've been there and done that. Doctor Who has to evolve to survive. That's its strength.

 

[barbelith]

The Doctor will never be a woman. End. Of. Story.

I suspect we'll see a female Doctor before we reach the end of the original 13 regenerations. I also expect the Doctor to find the Magical Crystal of Hoojib or something to gain infinite regenerations at that point. Doctor Who will never die. It merely sleeps.

 

[bcm77]

Doctor Who has to evolve to survive. That's its strength.

Yes but the last couple of series have IMO been completely the reverse.
Sure the effects are nice but most of the series established major villains have been reduced to total non threats and all of the good moments have for me been overshadowed by the crappy writing, unlikeable supporting characters and Tennant's total lack of ability to do anything remotely convincing beyond the same smartmouth schtick he's done since day one.

 

[Darklord Dave]

As a casual fan who has become an ardent fan of the new series, I have to say that I've liked the evolution the show has gone through. I think Moffat will be a great asset and perhaps even better in giving us character-driven stories rather than the monster of the weak that seemed to be the formula in the older series.

 

[bcm77]

I think Moffat will be a great asset and perhaps even better in giving us character-driven stories rather than the monster of the weak that seemed to be the formula in the older series.

Moffatt comes across in all the interviews I've seen as being even further up his own backside than RTD and while I'm going to give the show a final chance under the new regime I'll be VERY suprised if I end up watching to the end of the series.

 

[barbelith]

Sure the effects are nice but most of the series established major villains have been reduced to total non threats

I agree but let's also be fair: Daleks, Cybermen, Sontarans and the Master had been reduced to silliness years before the end of the classic series.

all of the good moments have for me been overshadowed by the crappy writing

Can you share of examples of this? Bearing in mind the series has won a trio of Hugos for writing and innumerable BAFTA awards, to say nothing of RTD winning an OBE for his contribution to drama.

unlikeable supporting characters

Who do you have in mind? I think the three companions are among the best and most realistic the series has ever had. I'm not a huge fan of Captain Jack or Mickey, but I don't know that either of them are "unlikeable" or any worse for the series than characters such as Adric and Mel. A lot of people talk this way about Donna, but I think they're probably projecting their own personal opinions of Catherine Tate's other comedy and The Runaway Bride. I just watched The Unicorn and the Wasp and Silence in the Library this morning and she's wonderful in them. Heartwarming and never once shrill or unlikeable.

Tennant's total lack of ability to do anything remotely convincing beyond the same smartmouth schtick he's done since day one.

This would be the same David Tennant currently playing Hamlet for the RSC; the most prestigious role on the most prestigious stage in the world? I can understand taste varies and his shtick might not be to everyone's taste, but I'm sorry, John Smith was not even remotely the Doctor until he was meant to be.

And getting back to this for a moment: When you say the show has lost much of its identity, which specific things do you have in mind? And can you explain how changing the Doctor's gender would be a major alteration for the show? Which specific qualities would vanish or irrevocably alter?

I ask because I've seen many people level the same complaints. I've never seen a single one back it up with specifics.

Moffatt comes across in all the interviews I've seen as being even further up his own backside than RTD

He appears to have an incredible ego, but he understands how people work and how stories work. Coupling was brilliant and his Doctor Who scripts have been the best of their respective seasons. He wrote Blink for crying out loud - not only great Doctor Who and the scariest episode to date, but look how quickly and immediately Sally Sparrow came to life in a single episode.

 

[Memnoch]

Id just like to take this chance that on PS3 and HDTV, the upscaled Who DVDs look AMAZING. Can't wait to check out series 4 when I get it.

 

[bcm77]

As far as the writing goes what awards a show has won has zero impact on whether I like it or not as I prefer to make my own mind up about things and am never influenced by reviews,awards or popular opinion in the way that others may be.

OBE's were once given to people that fully deserved them such as war heros, pioneering scientists and the like, but now we are in an age where they get handed out to all and sundry for the simple reason that the monarchy don't want to appear out of touch with modern society.

Tennant may be a good actor outside of Doctor Who but his performances haven't exactly got me wanting to check out any of his other work.
His one trick pony act probably isn't all his fault as working for RTD would probably stifle anyone's talent but if he was really that good an actor he would have added something to his portrayal of the Doctor to provide the depth that the character needs.

Changing the Doctor's gender to me would be like remaking The A-Team and casting a skinny white guy as BA Baracus.
Sometimes change is a good idea,the visual effects in Nu-Who are obviously way better than the Classic era but other things should just be left as they are.

I will admit my opinion of Catherine Tate is somewhat biased due to my loathing of her so called "comedy" but even if that wasn't the case I saw nothing in series 4 that made me connect with the character of Donna in any way.

Never use "Blink" to me as an example of Moffatt's alleged talents as I consider it the
2nd worst Nu-Who story so far.
I enjoyed his series 1 story but "The Girl in the Fireplace" was sheer mediocrity and I didn't watch his series 4 effort as I'd stopped caring by that point but from what I've read it appears that it contained more of the romantic drivel that's become so prevalent in Nu-Who so I have no intrest in going back and watching it.

As for the other stuff I can't really go into detail as I don't analyse every aspect of why I like or dislike something. I either like it or I don't,period.