Doctor Who - Spoilers!

[bcm77]

I agree about Gallifrey and the Time Lords inevitable return,I only hope what little intrest I have left in the revived show still remains by the time it happens.
RTD has killed all intrest I had in the Daleks,Davros and The Master and will likely sink the final nail in the Cyber-coffin this Christmas so seeing the return of the Time Lords and the end of all that "Lonely God" BS would be one of the few things that would get me to watch.

 

[Saya]

I don't know what to think of that trailer. I don't think I like the new Dr. from what I saw. Man! I really wanted to embrace the change to. Well I guess Im just gonna have to watch it and see this great twist at the end ya'll are talking about. Im missing Rose and Eccleston already.

 

[pixletwin]

What change?

 

[Blackhole]

Damn, that new Cyber-Leader looks the business...

Shiny Shiny...

 

[Memnoch]

I wonder when people will realize that DM is NOT our Doctor and it's only a marketing ploy. Also, some fun speculation that hints at the Monk more.. ROSEitta, she's black and has an accent similar to a certain Temp from Chiswick.

 

[barbelith]

Well I can totally see it because RTD has slowly restored major portions of the Doctors past and shown the Time War means NOTHING.

Right. I'm coming from the angle that RTD has only gone to the original series to revive the big guns or as throwaway asides that mean next to nothing. The speculation doesn't meet either criteria and it's a bit beyond belief to expect RTD is going to build up the return of an incredibly minor character from four decades ago when this is a series aimed squarely at a mass audience.

I agree all the toys will be put back in the box by next Christmas re: the Time War, but let's not start casting the Rani just yet.

 

[barbelith]

I agree about Gallifrey and the Time Lords inevitable return,I only hope what little intrest I have left in the revived show still remains by the time it happens.
RTD has killed all intrest I had in the Daleks,Davros and The Master and will likely sink the final nail in the Cyber-coffin this Christmas so seeing the return of the Time Lords and the end of all that "Lonely God" BS would be one of the few things that would get me to watch.

I love not being the most negative person in a thread!

I wonder when people will realize that DM is NOT our Doctor and it's only a marketing ploy.

I think you're probably right. On the other hand, what better way to keep casting under wraps than with a spectacular double bluff?

Also, some fun speculation that hints at the Monk more.. ROSEitta, she's black and has an accent similar to a certain Temp from Chiswick.

How are you getting the Monk from any of that? And bear in mind the Doctor has been quite clear that he'd be able to detect the existence of any other Time Lords - even the Master had to be human to escape detection.

 

[Memnoch]

I would argue the mass audience would know because of DVD releases and showings of the classics still on BBC Gold. I fully believe there is a build up coming weather you want to or not.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Building up an existing character that "mass audience" doesn't know is no different to said "mass audience" than building up an entirely new character such as Captain Jack. The bonus with bringing in an old character lies with tie ins for hard core fans.

Anyway, when will Americans get to see the Christmas special?

 

[pixletwin]

If you have no probs downloading it you can get it on Christmas Day on your friendly neighborhood torrent service.

Thats where I am getting mine.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Nah. I'll wait for DVD. I don't like watching tv on my computer. LOL.

 

[pixletwin]

On the spoiler front, DM did state in a recent interview that he does

Spoiler

play a time lord.

 

[barbelith]

I would argue the mass audience would know because of DVD releases and showings of the classics still on BBC Gold.

Whereas I would point out that 8 million people regularly watch the show while classic DVD sales are in the low five digits.

Building up an existing character that "mass audience" doesn't know is no different to said "mass audience" than building up an entirely new character such as Captain Jack.

I agree with that. But you have to think of it from a narrative perspective re: RTD and the mainstream audience. Introducing the Monk serves no real purpose in this context. We already have a Time Lord foil who messes with things. The motivation differs but the result is the same (and even the motivation isn't wildly different - see The King's Demons for example). So you present a redundant character who also undermines a key part of the narrative hook, which is the Doctor as last of his kind. Why not just use the Master?

Have either of you read The Writer's Tale yet? This just doesn't mesh with how RTD approaches the series. I could be wrong, but I don't think David Tennant is signing off with a minor character who hasn't been seen in four decades as the foe. This sounds like "Adam is Davros" or "Harriet Jones is inside the Dalek Supreme" to me.

 

[pixletwin]

We'll see I guess in a week

 

[Memnoch]

What do you mean David Tennant is signing off? You do realize he has the ENTIRE set of specials to go yet right? Also, why not bring the Master back? Because he is dead for now and they probably don't want to have to explain why the Master, who did not have his own TARDIS, is back to life and in Victorian England right just yet. And in light of what Pix just said, it would seem what WE'VE been saying and you're against is starting to be true.

 

[ProgMatinee]

I'm really new to old Who, but this quote from wikipedia makes a case why establishing a character similar yet different from the Master might make sense.
Seems to fit in with Christmas Special tone to me.

Unlike the Doctor's other Time Lord adversaries, such as the Master, the Monk was presented as a comic figure: a fairly well-meaning but childish man who was not half as clever as he thought he was, and who never seemed to realise the seriousness of what he was doing. The fact that his plans always failed to come to fruition, at least on screen, also helped maintain the comic tone, disguising how dangerous a person like the Monk could really be.

Although:

Spoiler

Media reports[1] indicate that Patrick Stewart is set to appear in a two-part episode of Doctor Who in 2010 as the Meddling Monk.

 

[pixletwin]

Really you can't take a character like the Meddling Monk and just say he might as well be the Master. They are two such entirely different characters. The Master is just a black and white character. Your typical baddie in black. Whereas the Meddling Monk has much more room to move around in his moral universe.

I just saw that Prog basically just posted the same thing I did.

 

[pixletwin]

I'm really new to old Who, but this quote from wikipedia makes a case why establishing a character similar yet different from the Master might make sense.
Seems to fit in with Christmas Special tone to me.

Unlike the Doctor's other Time Lord adversaries, such as the Master, the Monk was presented as a comic figure: a fairly well-meaning but childish man who was not half as clever as he thought he was, and who never seemed to realise the seriousness of what he was doing. The fact that his plans always failed to come to fruition, at least on screen, also helped maintain the comic tone, disguising how dangerous a person like the Monk could really be.

Which also, given what we have seen in trailers, seems to fit Morrisey's character rather nicely.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Which also, given what we have seen in trailers, seems to fit Morrisey's character rather nicely.

Definately goofy. Also, the rushing of the industrial age as hinted in the trailer fits the character's motives.

 

[barbelith]

We'll see I guess in a week

I can't wait!

What do you mean David Tennant is signing off?

I mean he has four or five episodes left.

Also, why not bring the Master back? Because he is dead for now and they probably don't want to have to explain why the Master, who did not have his own TARDIS, is back to life and in Victorian England right just yet.

Except under your theory they have to explain why the Doctor has been incapable of detecting the presence of the Monk and another TARDIS. And on top of that:

Spoiler

John Simm told a reporter he is coming back as the Master.

...which brings us back to the problem of narrative redundancy. Why do we need two of them?

And in light of what Pix just said, it would seem what WE'VE been saying and you're against is starting to be true.

We'll see in a week. I will be shocked if DM is the Monk. It's pointlessly complicated and a non-revelation for the 10 million people who'll be watching next week.

Really you can't take a character like the Meddling Monk and just say he might as well be the Master. They are two such entirely different characters.

But their narrative impact is the same, which is presumably why they never again used the Monk once they introduced the Master.