Enterbay HD: 1/4 scale Rambo III

[MaulFan]

Something always looks a little off with all of his Stallone pieces imo. Atleast it's not ridiculously priced though.

I think it's the age/look of his faces. Edinho always captures Stallone's likeness, but especially his 1:1 busts, there is an almost cartoonish quality to the portraits that loses the age of Stallone from a particular movie and softens him up to an almost feminine look. His smaller pieces don't quite have that fem touch but still miss his age, like his Rambo 4s look a bit more like Sly would look halfway between Rambo 3 and 4, they're not a young Sly but they're not old Sly either. That said, his sculpts always look clearly meat to be Stallone to me.

 

[cap70]

Did anyone see Edinho's latest work?

Lifesize Bust:

I love it, fantastic likeness. In fact, I liked it so much that I have one coming my way, can't wait! Also bought me a Rambo First Blood signature knife to display next to it.

Now just waiting on the EB 1/4 Rambo III...c'mon, EB, show the thing already!

 

[snoop101]

I think it's the age/look of his faces. Edinho always captures Stallone's likeness, but especially his 1:1 busts, there is an almost cartoonish quality to the portraits that loses the age of Stallone from a particular movie and softens him up to an almost feminine look. His smaller pieces don't quite have that fem touch but still miss his age, like his Rambo 4s look a bit more like Sly would look halfway between Rambo 3 and 4, they're not a young Sly but they're not old Sly either. That said, his sculpts always look clearly meat to be Stallone to me.

I agree I think he's a good sculptor, especially his Rambo 4 statues. You can always tell it's meant to be Stallone, but I don't think he always captures his likeness. I think it's the paint that hurts his sculpts the most. 1/1 should be the most realistic looking, but yet there are 1/6 figures that look more real than this bust.

 

[cap70]

1/1 should be the most realistic looking, but yet there are 1/6 figures that look more real than this bust.

Hot Toys and EB uses translucent plastic, that makes it looks like "real skin". A 1:1 bust would have to use the same resin(difficult to cast in 1:1), or be made out of silicone to match that "realism". A Silicone custom 1:1 bust like the one above would cost $4000+. So Edinho offers a compromise with his custom pieces.
$500 for a custom, limited 1:1 Bust is very cheap in today's market. Heck, there's 1:1 white resin unfinished busts that goes for that.

 

[MaulFan]

I agree I think he's a good sculptor, especially his Rambo 4 statues. You can always tell it's meant to be Stallone, but I don't think he always captures his likeness. I think it's the paint that hurts his sculpts the most. 1/1 should be the most realistic looking, but yet there are 1/6 figures that look more real than this bust.

paint is very basic, it's the price you pay for getting statues at Hal the cost you'd pay a manufacturer with top notch paint apps. They're ok on the 1/4 Rambo 4 but the 1/6 and 1/2 bust have really amateur looking paint, it's not sloppy or anything, just doesn't look like tha painter has any special talent.

 

[balboa1976]

paint is very basic, it's the price you pay for getting statues at Hal the cost you'd pay a manufacturer with top notch paint apps. They're ok on the 1/4 Rambo 4 but the 1/6 and 1/2 bust have really amateur looking paint, it's not sloppy or anything, just doesn't look like tha painter has any special talent.

I think you answered this debate perfect, his statues aren't great but you're paying half price, and for a lot of collectors on a budget these statues are great, I can't afford to pay $600 - $1,500 for a museum quality statue. I usually pick up Maga's statues for $125 - $250, so I can't complain.

 

[MaulFan]

Hot Toys and EB uses translucent plastic, that makes it looks like "real skin". A 1:1 bust would have to use the same resin(difficult to cast in 1:1), or be made out of silicone to match that "realism". A Silicone custom 1:1 bust like the one above would cost $4000+. So Edinho offers a compromise with his custom pieces.
$500 for a custom, limited 1:1 Bust is very cheap in today's market. Heck, there's 1:1 white resin unfinished busts that goes for that.

There are things that could be done with paint alone that aren't on Edinho's private and HCG pieces. The skin tones look flat and basic, eyes lacking detail. Sure alternate production materials could help too but I've yet to see one of his pieces show off the type of paint wok some of the top guys are capable of. It is a compromise though, you will never get a 1/1 bust made in a run of 30 pieces for only $500 with a super paint job, you'd pay at least 3 times that. The pieces are more affordable because of the simpler paints, same way you get 1/4 Rambo statue for $200 when you'd pay EB, HT or even Sideshow almost $400 for similar.

 

[MaulFan]

I think you answered this debate perfect, his statues aren't great but you're paying half price, and for a lot of collectors on a budget these statues are great, I can't afford to pay $600 - $1,500 for a museum quality statue. I usually pick up Maga's statues for $125 - $250, so I can't complain.

It's also why I wouldn't use the pieces for certain arguments, each artist a company has different goals with their pieces. I hold more likeness stuff against EB than Maga/HCG because EB is pushing for phot realistic representations and misses stand out to me more with them, Maga's trying to capture te spirit of the character and maintain the likeness of Stallone, and he's successful at that. He's far from as spot on as an EB or Ht might be, but he's not trying to be that so I do 't see his falling short of it a failure. EB is so if I see them as falling short, I do see it as a failure. That's why I am forgiving of issues on the Sideshow Rambo PF more than this EB figure, I judge the pieces by the style of the maker/artist and how well it measures up to that.

 

[cap70]

There are things that could be done with paint alone that aren't on Edinho's private and HCG pieces. The skin tones look flat and basic, eyes lacking detail. Sure alternate production materials could help too but I've yet to see one of his pieces show off the type of paint wok some of the top guys are capable of. It is a compromise though, you will never get a 1/1 bust made in a run of 30 pieces for only $500 with a super paint job, you'd pay at least 3 times that. The pieces are more affordable because of the simpler paints, same way you get 1/4 Rambo statue for $200 when you'd pay EB, HT or even Sideshow almost $400 for similar.

I ain't talking about HCG pieces. HCG pieces are pretty flat, I would agree with you on that. Had MANY of them. Some of them I got first hand directly from them and posted reviews. They were just starting as a company at the time. It's no only in the PJ, but the way these pieces are primed in China. Priming itself it's an art, if you put it too much you take at all the fine details, the skin pores etc. Sideshow does the same mistakes in MANY of their pieces. That's why we see a lot of amazing sculpts in their raw form and then all the details lost after they get out of production.
As I said, it's always a compromise. I own/owned many 1:1 custom pieces, from the best painters out there...and have seen many too. And other than silicone, I'm yet to see one that looks "human" real that is made out of resin(talking about "human" skin tones here, not creatures). It's the medium used. I had Edinho's Rambo 3 1:1 and the PJ on that one was pretty good, better than most of the things you see from Sideshow and other companies out there. I'm yet to see his new Rambo in person, but so far I like the PJ. Will post pictures when I get it.

 

[snoop101]

Hot Toys and EB uses translucent plastic, that makes it looks like "real skin". A 1:1 bust would have to use the same resin(difficult to cast in 1:1), or be made out of silicone to match that "realism". A Silicone custom 1:1 bust like the one above would cost $4000+. So Edinho offers a compromise with his custom pieces.
$500 for a custom, limited 1:1 Bust is very cheap in today's market. Heck, there's 1:1 white resin unfinished busts that goes for that.

HT's and EB use translucent plastic?

It's also why I wouldn't use the pieces for certain arguments, each artist a company has different goals with their pieces. I hold more likeness stuff against EB than Maga/HCG because EB is pushing for phot realistic representations and misses stand out to me more with them, Maga's trying to capture te spirit of the character and maintain the likeness of Stallone, and he's successful at that. He's far from as spot on as an EB or Ht might be, but he's not trying to be that so I do 't see his falling short of it a failure. EB is so if I see them as falling short, I do see it as a failure. That's why I am forgiving of issues on the Sideshow Rambo PF more than this EB figure, I judge the pieces by the style of the maker/artist and how well it measures up to that.

"Maintain" the likeness of Stallone? Its kind of ridiculous to say an artist or a company like Sideshow for that matter doesn't strive for realism, isn't that the point? And then when they don't, you can justify that by saying they have different goals and are instead trying to capture the "spirit" of the character.

 

[cap70]

HT's and EB use translucent plastic?

Yup. Translucent plastic, translucent resin, transparent resin/plastic... people call it many names. It comes out of production with the right flesh tones already, needing only some fine "tune" to make realistic. Eyes, lips, and other details are painted over it. Sideshow started to use it in their German soldier PF...the Obi Wan LSB 1/2 scale statue also uses it, that's why it looks more realistic than painted polystone.

 

[MaulFan]

Its kind of ridiculous to say an artist or a company like Sideshow for that matter doesn't strive for realism

Why is it rediculous, there are all sorts of art forms, not every piece is made to be realistic. I truly believe that for a long time, Sideshow strived for authentic likenesses, but never intended for pieces to have the photo realism that HT and EB and other companies have strived for. They seem to be trying to get there now because that's what the collector base is demanding and if they don't go there, they'll probably lose out because pretty much everyone wants photo-realism and no room for artsy anymore. Same with Maga's pieces and almost any HCG statue, they're some great sculpts, but the quality of the sculpt and paint work don't come close to photo realism and I truly believe that's with intent, not short comings of talent. If HCG wanted photo realistic pieces, they wouldn't solicit work from artists that couldn't deliver. I look at Sideshow's Rambo PF and it is so removed from a photo realistic piece, I really don't believe they ever intended it to be that way. It was meant to be a statue that embodies the spirit of Rambo and captures Stallone. I look at Enterbay's Rambo, and I see a company trying very hard to make a figure that'll fool people into thinking they are looking at Stallone himself in person. I really believe each company has a style to their work that they want to be known for, not necessarily unique, like EB and HT are fighting each other for dominance in the world of photo-realistic pieces, but I feel like Sideshow's approach is more of a fine art, almost illustrative approach at times. Sure some of their work aims at being lifelike or looking as real as the source, but othertimes it doesn't look like that was their plan at all, and since they can do some really good work at matching the source when they want to, I believe when they fail, it's as much planned as anything, if they really want a piece to be as realistic looking as possible, they'd thrown the resources they have to achieve that at it.

 

[MaulFan]

the Obi Wan LSB 1/2 scale statue also uses it, that's why it looks more realistic than painted polystone.

The Obi-Wan LSB is painted polystone like usual, it's a decent paint job but not as lifelike as HT/EB paints, and the we could check with him, but the Obi-Wan Legendary full body 1/2 piece I believe is painted poly, the artist posts here,

https://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73819

Could ask him what material it was. He's a great example of what I mean though about artists painting lifelike even without casting in materials to help the cause. I'd love to see what SilentSurfer could do with Maga's First Blood or Rambo 3 1:1 busts.

 

[cap70]

The Obi-Wan LSB is painted polystone like usual, it's a decent paint job but not as lifelike as HT/EB paints, and the we could check with him, but the Obi-Wan Legendary full body 1/2 piece I believe is painted poly, the artist posts here,

https://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73819

Could ask him what material it was. He's a great example of what I mean though about artists painting lifelike even without casting in materials to help the cause. I'd love to see what SilentSurfer could do with Maga's First Blood or Rambo 3 1:1 busts.

Yeah, I was talking about the Legendary Obi-Wan 1/2. I know the 1/2 bust it's polystone. I'm pretty sure the 1/2 Legendary is translucent material, though. Same goes for the German soldier PF.
A professional top notch PJ on resin, using multilayering technique on polystone will cost a lot of dough, so that would put these customs busts in the thousands and many buyers away. The PJ alone would cost twice what Edinho charges right now. And even then it wouldn't surpass the realism of a top notch PJ on silicone or trans. resin material. Now I have seen painted eyes that people will think it's glass eyes. lol My wife is a specialist in painting eyes and her stuff is unbelievable.

Do you own the Rambo 3 1:1? The one I owned had a pretty good PJ. Better than anything mass produced, that's for sure. This new one isn't in my hands yet, so I won't judge it until I see the PJ in the flesh.

 

[snoop101]

Why is it rediculous, there are all sorts of art forms, not every piece is made to be realistic. I truly believe that for a long time, Sideshow strived for authentic likenesses, but never intended for pieces to have the photo realism that HT and EB and other companies have strived for. They seem to be trying to get there now because that's what the collector base is demanding and if they don't go there, they'll probably lose out because pretty much everyone wants photo-realism and no room for artsy anymore. Same with Maga's pieces and almost any HCG statue, they're some great sculpts, but the quality of the sculpt and paint work don't come close to photo realism and I truly believe that's with intent, not short comings of talent. If HCG wanted photo realistic pieces, they wouldn't solicit work from artists that couldn't deliver. I look at Sideshow's Rambo PF and it is so removed from a photo realistic piece, I really don't believe they ever intended it to be that way. It was meant to be a statue that embodies the spirit of Rambo and captures Stallone. I look at Enterbay's Rambo, and I see a company trying very hard to make a figure that'll fool people into thinking they are looking at Stallone himself in person. I really believe each company has a style to their work that they want to be known for, not necessarily unique, like EB and HT are fighting each other for dominance in the world of photo-realistic pieces, but I feel like Sideshow's approach is more of a fine art, almost illustrative approach at times. Sure some of their work aims at being lifelike or looking as real as the source, but othertimes it doesn't look like that was their plan at all, and since they can do some really good work at matching the source when they want to, I believe when they fail, it's as much planned as anything, if they really want a piece to be as realistic looking as possible, they'd thrown the resources they have to achieve that at it.

"Maintain" the likeness of Stallone? Its kind of ridiculous to say an artist or a company like Sideshow for that matter doesn't strive for realism, isn't that the point? And then when they don't, you can justify that by saying they have different goals and are instead trying to capture the "spirit" of the character.

It's ridiculous saying that an artist, or companies like HCG/Sideshow don't strive for realism, when in fact they are trying to make a sculpt based on a "real" person. Most of the statues/figures today are based on real people. So therefore, wouldn't the object be to get the sculpt and paint as realistic as possible? Trying to justify that by saying that they instead try to capture the "spirit" of characters, and "maintain" likenesses (whatever that means ) is just laughable. And you said that when they do fail, they plan too!? And when there pieces don't look as good as other companies, it's because they intended it that way, and that they have different goals. And if so, what might those goals be?

 

[balboa1976]

Why did you sell that Rambo III bust if it was so good?

 

[cap70]

Why did you sell that Rambo III bust if it was so good?

To buy the new one, since it's from my favorite Rambo movie. Did you never sell anything that was good before? I know I did, and a lot....

 

[MaulFan]

It's ridiculous saying that an artist, or companies like HCG/Sideshow don't strive for realism, when in fact they are trying to make a sculpt based on a "real" person. Most of the statues/figures today are based on real people. So therefore, wouldn't the object be to get the sculpt and paint as realistic as possible? Trying to justify that and say that they instead, try to capture the "spirit" of characters and "maintain" likenesses (whatever that means ) is just laughable. And you said that when they do fail, they plan too!? And when there pieces don't look as good as other companies, it's because they intended it that way, and that they have different goals. And if so, what might those goals be?

Just because you're going for a likeness doesn't mean you're going for realism. Likeness just means looking like something. A piece of art doesn't have to look like a living breathing Sylvester Stallone to look like him.

I'll illustrate what I'm getting at.

This artist made a Rambo piece, it looks like Sly, but it doesn't look like a photograph of him.

This one looks almost like a photograph.

Two artist depicting Stallone as Rambo, different styles, different results.

What I'm saying is, I really don't think Sideshow, prior to SDCC 2011, ever showed any effort to create pieces that when photographed, could fool someone into thinking they're looking at a living human being. I think they had a style, it worked, they rolled with it. That style is growing tired of people, now the likes of Hot Toys and Enterbay are setting the bar for what people are after, and Sideshow seems to be working towards catching up, but I don't feel like they failed to create such realism, I really think they weren't after it for a long time, but pieces shown at last year's SDCC show an effort to move towards the HT EB level.

Likewise, I really don't think HCG is out to offer pieces that capture the life-like qualities of HT/EB pieces, they're just producing nicely sculpted pieces that do a good job of depicting characters people really like.

Getting back to what I said earlier, I judge products against the company's style and what they seem to be out to do. If I thought Sideshow was trying to be as lifelike as HT and EB, then I would have probably felt a great dissappointmen with their Rambo, but against some of the other Sideshow pieces I've owned and seen, I thought it was pretty on par with their style and I was happy with it.

Now we've got the EB Rambo. I look at the figures EB is turning out right now in 1/6 and 1/4 and I see them as trying to create extremely lifelike and accurrate figures, so I am critical of Rambo because he falls short of other work EB is doing. Their T2 is an amazing piece, their MIB figures look stunning.

Do I think Rambo is a complete disaster, certainly not, they're making a really nice figure, but compared to what EB's shown itself capable of, I don't think it's their best effort and I do feel like they're capable of an even better Rambo than we've seen.

 

[MaulFan]

Do you own the Rambo 3 1:1? The one I owned had a pretty good PJ. Better than anything mass produced, that's for sure. This new one isn't in my hands yet, so I won't judge it until I see the PJ in the flesh.

Nope, the sculpt and paint just have a softness to them that doesn't capture Rambo's intensity the way I think it should be, which is surprising because his Rambo 4 1/2 scale bust is real intense looking, but the Rambo 3 and First Blood busts look soft, particularly the eyes. Like I said before, Edinho's pieces always look like Stallone, I never wonder who they're supposed to be, but there's a quality that almost looks, for lack of better words, cartoonish, and not as rough as a more lifelike representation of Sly would look.

 

[cap70]

Nope, the sculpt and paint just have a softness to them that doesn't capture Rambo's intensity the way I think it should be, which is surprising because his Rambo 4 1/2 scale bust is real intense looking, but the Rambo 3 and First Blood busts look soft, particularly the eyes. Like I said before, Edinho's pieces always look like Stallone, I never wonder who they're supposed to be, but there's a quality that almost looks, for lack of better words, cartoonish, and not as rough as a more lifelike representation of Sly would look.

I had it, and couldn't disagree more with the "softness" of the paint, or the cartoonish look. Far to be a thousand bucks PJ, but still pretty good.
SS Rambo PF and other pieces looks WAY more cartoonish to me, and with a very, very bad likeness.