"Fall of the Empire" Ewoks vs. Stormtrooper Diorama
- Thread starter Khev
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Sure, he says that... but do you actually feel like he means it?
You can't just have characters saying stuff... you have to SHOW it. There is nothing in the prequels even remotely as sublime as some of the quiet moments in the OT between characters where you can really feel the chemistry. The prequels are totally lifeless in that regard, because Lucas forced the characters to take a back seat to plot, exposition and digital showmanship. ROTS might be the ultimate example of this, because out of all 6 films it's the one that should have been the most emotional given the subject matter. But it's not even close.
I want some furry ewok goodness in faux bronze!
It'll probably happen. What else could they do with all of the regular ones that will collect dust in the warehouse?
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I feel those few lines at the end of ROTS by McGregor was the only good moment of acting through out the whole entire PT.
To quote the second part of your post in bold..
Absolutely, i agree.
galactiboy
OT Preferist
I feel those few lines at the end of ROTS by McGregor was the only good moment of acting through out the whole entire PT.
To quote the second part of your post in bold..
I'd agree with that... Ewan was actually able to emote well, although the lead up still doesn't equal out.
To me the PT really is one big mess, some parts are great, but the whole is lacking. I enjoy them, but would probably be fine if they hadn't been made.
The SE (and the seemingly endless versions of it) is quickly turning the OT into the PT though, so my guess is by the time Lucas croaks both trilogies will be equally awful
Absolutely. Ewan's performance throughout practiacally carries the entire film. No one's acting in ROTJ even comes close.
To my knowledge we weren't discussing the PT vs. the OT. Of course the OT wins. The discussion at hand was ROTS vs. ROTJ. ROTS absolutely shows a friendship in the beginning of the film, from the OT-style cockpit banter to Anakin heeding Obi-Wan's warning about fighting Dooku alone and his unwillingness to leave without him. They don't refer to friendly conversations and self-sacrifice, you literally see it onscreen.
There's no scene in **ROTJ** that ever gives any indication that any main characters are ever in peril. That alone crucifies any chance to truly root for them. The Sarlacc pit battle was such a silly cakewalk for the heroes that dramatically speaking it was a joke. That set the stage for the rest of the film, even Irvin Kershner went on record in Star Wars Insider that after working so hard in Empire to have the characters earn every "victory" he was dismayed to see them just coast through every encounter in ROTJ. No peril = No emotional investment. ROTJ is a collection of really "cool" stunts, effects, and characters, but that's pretty much it.
In ROTS every victory carries an equal sense of further impending doom, beginning with Anakin's decapitation of Dooku. There's a reason it edges out ROTJ on rottentomatoes. Its simply a better movie.
Tell me one "quiet moment" in all of ROTJ that can measure up to Obi-Wan and Padme's discussion about the location of Anakin in her apartment. "Anakin's the father isn't he? I'm so sorry...." What a powerful, fantastically acted and delivered exchange. "Is Darth Vader my father?" "Your father he is." THAT's the best ROTJ can muster after TESB's finale? Its like they didn't even try.
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Luke's meeting with Vader on the Endor bridge bests that, easily. And it was one of the moments in the OT that once made me so excited for the PT.
In fact, the "Obi-Wan once thought as you do..." line was always so powerful and interesting that I was dismayed to see Lucas totally abandon it in ROTS. It wasn't Obi-Wan who said "Come with me...", it was Padme. In fact, Obi-Wan was basically just there to kill him. Lame.
I do. Without a shadow of a doubt. Thats just me though. The PT isn't as bad as some want to make it out and the OT isn't as great as some want to make it out. Thats why I enjoy SW so much I think and can relate to the entire thing.
Amanaman
Super Freak
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The prequels failed to convince me that Anakin and Obi were ever good friends. Yeah, there was that shipyard scene in the middle of ROTS where Ani/Obi have their last friendly conversation, but the way Hayden carried himself made him look resentful of Obi-Wan. I could never take him seriously. Ewan's acting carried the story, but in absence of a matching performance by Hayden, their good friendship amounts to nothing but words. It is written but not believable.
It also didn't help that Ewan was taken out of the picture each time they both dueled with Dooku. That was a cop out to avoid complicating the script.
I agree with Khev that ROTJ was dramatically weak. When I watch ROTJ I see it as an ode to my 80s nostalgia. But when I want to see SW in the form that I wish it would be, with drama and a sense of danger, I prefer ROTS, ANH, and TESB. Overall, the PT was stilted in character development, but I could it take it more seriously than the campy parts of ROTJ.
It also didn't help that Ewan was taken out of the picture each time they both dueled with Dooku. That was a cop out to avoid complicating the script.
I agree with Khev that ROTJ was dramatically weak. When I watch ROTJ I see it as an ode to my 80s nostalgia. But when I want to see SW in the form that I wish it would be, with drama and a sense of danger, I prefer ROTS, ANH, and TESB. Overall, the PT was stilted in character development, but I could it take it more seriously than the campy parts of ROTJ.
That scene completely dismissed the entire finale of TESB, an enormous step backward for the entire saga. It certainly doesn't compare to the best moments of ROTS.
I was more dismayed to see Lucas totally abandon, "Join me, and we can rule the galaxy as father and son!" ROTS did some nice damage control for the entire saga, with a significant amount of said damage caused by ROTJ.
Agreed 100%. ROTJ was chalk full of cool action sequences and icons, but the dramatic heart of the saga is found in ROTS, ANH, and TESB.
Hah hah.
Seriously When Sideshow first said that Ewoks are coming in smaller than 1/4th scale, I was hoping for 1/6th.
Dude, you are letting your lifelong dislike of ROTJ cloud the fact that ROTS easily has its fair share of problems. And even the shiniest turd from the prequels is still, well, you know...
I don't really love ROTJ, either. But, man...
tomandshell
Blue Flame of the West/Mod
For me, the weakest section of the saga is the first act of Jedi. A hero arrives in Jabba's throne room and is captured. Lather, rinse, repeat. Same scene in the same location over and over and over.
Blind love?
The OT has its fair sure of problems, too... and I spent an entire post in this thread ripping ROTJ to shreds. I don't think the OT movies are perfect by any means. They're not even in my Top 10 favorite films (no, not even TESB). But they are better than the prequels, imho. And on several levels.In your opinion, how are they "equal", exactly?
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Blind love?
One post does not constitute not showing blind love though. The entire OT has as many problems as the PT. Thats like what I said cracks me up about discussions on SW. Some fans want to point out all the issues with the PT but try to ignore said same issues in the OT.
As you said its a discussion board but most of the time there is little discussion about the issues that are in the OT. Its like those three get a pass.
Now, I know you're a fan and all that jazz.
There's a simple reason behind that and it deals with weight: the problems in the PT are discussed more often by most of us because they are more numerous and overt. I completely and 100% disagree with your notion that "the entire OT has as many problems as the PT". No way. You can't watch a movie like TESB and then watch AOTC and claim the two styles are even remotely equal. They don't even seem like they're from the same film series.
However, if anyone wants to create threads about the issues in ANH &TESB (like this one on ROTJ) I'd be more than willing to participate, They're not quite perfect, either. But they are better than the prequels.
And, imho, a truly "blind fan" is one that accepts everything thrown at him or her without condition. There are plenty of SW fans like that, too... ones who would seriously claim that none of the films is really better or worse than any other (or the EU for that matter). Not me. I can compare it all in relative terms and there is a gradient curve of quality, from good to bad.
However, if anyone wants to create threads about the issues in ANH &TESB (like this one on ROTJ) I'd be more than willing to participate, They're not quite perfect, either. But they are better than the prequels.
And, imho, a truly "blind fan" is one that accepts everything thrown at him or her without condition. There are plenty of SW fans like that, too... ones who would seriously claim that none of the films is really better or worse than any other (or the EU for that matter). Not me. I can compare it all in relative terms and there is a gradient curve of quality, from good to bad.
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I think the acting is the same in all six movies. Same cheesy bad lines, same types of dialouge, etc. They all have the same issues with consistency I think. Meaning sometimes things just don't flow right and its in all six movies. People rip on Anakin for being annoying well Luke is the same really until the end as is the case with Anakin. I feel more care for Anakin/Obi-Wan than I do really for Luke/Obi-Wan. Just stuff like that.
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