Fantastic Four reboot

[batfan08]

Yes, but none of that justifies using affirmative action to change characters (IF that's what this is), yes, there is a lack of black (and EVERY OTHER RACE) leads in Hollywood, then make movies about black characters, don't swap races just for the sake of it, isn't it clear by now how counter productive that actually is?

I would kill for a Spawn movie, and it would be equally stupid to turn Spawn white or any other race.

Regarding GotG, why is it incredible? Zoe Saldana is black of Latin-american ancestry and Batista is half Filipino, that sounds pretty diverse to me, and they didn't make a big fuzz about it.

There's SJW all over it, "look at your friend next to you, he isn't white, look!"

Hit the nail on the head, right there. The gist of the letter seemed to be "you're being dragged into the 21st century, whether you like it or not," and that just doesn't work. We white people can be stubborn. More than anything, though, I think people are put off by the way they're doing it. I don't know what to think of Mehcad Brooks as Jimmy Olsen, just as I wasn't 100% on Laurence Fishburne as Perry White, but you know what? After seeing the movie, Fishburne's Perry White turned out to be one of my favorite things about the movie. I respect DC for the way they're handling this stuff, though. There were the same sort of outbursts over those casting decisions, and they never addressed them, and you know what? By the time all was said and done, you believed that they picked them because they were right for the job (moreso Fishburne, as I really haven't seen enough of Brooks to know if I like him or not), rather than because they happened to be black.

The whole thing with Fantastic Four just reeks of forced diversity. From the Sue's adopted stuff to the way this stuff reads in the press, this whole thing is like some Fox exec saying "we need a black one," and Trank being like "there was a black dude in my last movie!" I agree with what you said, though. We need more minority leads in these films, but we need more minority characters, in general, on film. I think the problem is that people overestimate the difficulty of making these characters relevant with general audiences, and they fail to realize that, prior to 2008, Iron Man was pretty much D-List to that same public. The other thing people need to keep in mind is that there are more minorities than just the black community. Typically, these sorts of arguments devolve into this "black vs. white" mentality, when there Latinos, Asians, and others are even less prevalent.

 

[RIDDICK]

It's kinda hillarious...
In "The Flash" Barry is adopted by black police man, and has romantic interest in his black daughter.
And NO ONE has anything against it. Why? Because it felt natural and didn't force race swap of the title character.

*Also, just FYI, Cisco and Joe are my favourite characters of that series.

 

[batfan08]

I know. The Wests are ****ing fantastic, and Jesse L. Martin almost consistently acts circles around everyone else on the show. Like you said, it felt totally natural and there's amazing chemistry between them all, and, you know, that could very well end up being the case between Michael B. Jordan, Reg E. Cathey, and Kate Mara, but it seems to me like the majority of the annoyance comes from the way they're approaching all this ****.

 

[GasparZizou]

It's kinda hillarious...
In "The Flash" Barry is adopted by black police man, and has romantic interest in his black daughter.
And NO ONE has anything against it. Why? Because it felt natural and didn't force race swap of the title character.

*Also, just FYI, Cisco and Joe are my favourite characters of that series.

Well well, looks like you like Da Flush now huh?

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

Don't see how the Flash situation is different from this. Only thing I can think of is the Wests aren't as popular as Johnny so people complain about this but didn't even know or care about the Wests race-swap.

As for discussing the backlash well the backlash if any against the actors playing the Wests is a drop in the ocean compared to the hate Jordan has received. Why shouldn't he stand up for himself and address the trolls?

Also there's been no indication that this was forced diversity. It's well known that the director thought MBJ was ideal for the role based on his similiar it's to the characters character and that's why he was cast

 

[Deckard]

 

[pturtle]

Yes, but none of that justifies using affirmative action to change characters (IF that's what this is), yes, there is a lack of black (and EVERY OTHER RACE) leads in Hollywood, then make movies about black characters, don't swap races just for the sake of it, isn't it clear by now how counter productive that actually is?

I would kill for a Spawn movie, and it would be equally stupid to turn Spawn white or any other race.

Regarding GotG, why is it incredible? Zoe Saldana is black of Latin-american ancestry and Batista is half Filipino, that sounds pretty diverse to me, and they didn't make a big fuzz about it.

There's SJW all over it, "look at your friend next to you, he isn't white, look!"

I still don't see why people think the race swap was forced, he's friends with Josh Trank, a talented actor, and when Trank was asked about why he chose MBJ as Johnny Storm he told empire that he's always believed that MBJ epitomizes and embodies Johnny Storm.

I would kill for a Spawn movie as well, but I would have absolutely no problem with a white Al Simmons. In fact I believe Jamie Fox is already locked to play the role (if the movie ever comes out) and if I had to choose Jamie Fox playing Spawn or someone like Sean Penn, I'd absolutely pick Sean Penn. For me, it's always about the talent of the actor.

Again, there wasn't a big issue with the casting of GOTG because nobody knew who these characters were, and they're already stars in the their own right. Not mention they were covered up completely playing aliens, that's a lot easier to sell to the world. Same goes for Perry White, I don't remember there being much backlash for him at all, why? Because he's a secondary character. Most of the movie going audience doesn't even know who Perry White is, that's a lot different than changing Johnny Storm's ethnicity, even casual movie going fans know what the Human Torch looks like.

The reason I didn't get a SJW vibe from his letter is because I usually associate SJW with extremists who try to force their idles on the public, they have an agenda and talk about it every chance they get. This is the first time MBJ has brought this up, in fact other actors like Anthony Mackie have said the same thing as him more than a year ago. Even in his letter, he's telling us that his race has absolutely nothing to do with the story, and hopefully people can see past that, and if they do, that can lead to more opportunity for others. Maybe he should have taken out the part where he talks about shouldering all the hate, that's a bit too much, this isn't that important but everything else I thought he handled perfectly, and was right about.

 

[pturtle]

The whole thing with Fantastic Four just weeks of forced diversity. From the Sue's adopted stuff to the way this stuff reads in the press, this whole thing is like some Fox exec saying "we need a black one," and Trank being like "there was a black dude in my last movie!".

I have to disagree, what's wrong with Trank changing up the relationship between Sue and Johnny Storm slightly, so that he can get two of what he feels to be the two best actors for the role to service his story? Why is having Sue adopted forced? I believe they even teach you in film school that it's best for directors to work with the same actors, a lot of directors do it. Why is Trank working with MBJ again for a role that he's absolutely qualified for, forced?

It's this kind of thinking that leads to the accusations that causes the cast and director to have to explain themselves. By the way, I'm not attacking you or anything Batfan, I'm just really interested in why you consider the minor tweaking of the Storm's relationship to be forced.

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

Them being adopted siblings over blood siblings really has no impact on their relationship as they're still siblings. If Johnny was her uncle then yeah that'd be different but with things the way they are they're still brother and sister so nothing has changed on that front

 

[jye4ever]

Actors and Directors need to understand that as soon as they decide to start lecturing potential customers on social issues they risk a backlash against their product.

Not surprised that Trank, Trask, Tribble , whatever his name is, is off Star Wars.

 

[Jeffl20]

I'm not that concerned about the casting choices and the differences.

 

[jye4ever]

I am, I wanted a Bangladeshi Doom who seeks world domination one slurpee machine at a time.

 

[pturtle]

Them being adopted siblings over blood siblings really has no impact on their relationship as they're still siblings. If Johnny was her uncle then yeah that'd be different but with things the way they are they're still brother and sister so nothing has changed on that front

Yup, their relationship shouldn't change at all, which is why I don't get the big uproar about Sue being adopted.

I am, I wanted a Bangladeshi Doom who seeks world domination one slurpee machine at a time.

 

[Khev]

Equality /= The Same.

Just because women are equal to men and blacks (or Latinos, Asians, etc.) are equal to whites does not make them all the same and interchangable. White Spawn would be dumb. I would have raised holy hell if Marvel made Falcon white. White AKIRA? No thanks.

Having a fictional character be created with an actual race and gender is *okay* and wanting the character to be appropriately represented when adapted to other media is *also okay.* Being open to change is also fine. Whether the change be gender, race, or going from spandex to a tactical suit. But *preaching* to the side you disagree with is dumb, unless you're just calling attention to the fact that their preaching is dumb in the first place.

In short, if you think an African American Quicksilver played by Meryl Streep covered in shoe polish would be so totally awesome because ethnicity, age, and gender are all irrelevant as long as you have a great actor in the role then fine, more power to you. But don't be shocked if other people prefer something closer to the source material and for heaven's sake don't preach to them or hold them in contempt because of it.

 

[pturtle]

Equality /= The Same.

Just because women are equal to men and blacks (or Latinos, Asians, etc.) are equal to whites does not make them all the same and interchangable. White Spawn would be dumb. I would have raised holy hell if Marvel made Falcon white. White AKIRA? No thanks.

Having a fictional character be created with an actual race and gender is *okay* and wanting the character to be appropriately represented when adapted to other media is *also okay.* Being open to change is also fine. Whether the change be gender, race, or going from spandex to a tactical suit. But *preaching* to the side you disagree with is dumb, unless you're just calling attention to the fact that their preaching is dumb in the first place.

In short, if you think an African American Quicksilver played by Meryl Streep covered in shoe polish would be so totally awesome because ethnicity, age, and gender are all irrelevant as long as you have a great actor in the role then fine, more power to you. But don't be shocked if other people prefer something closer to the source material and for heaven's sake don't preach to them or hold them in contempt because of it.

But you see you're exaggerating everything. I'm actually not on board with gender swapping to appease the millions of feminists out there because changing the gender of a character is pretty much changing the character entirely. That's absolutely not the same thing as changing the skin color of a character which has no importance to the character at all. Obviously making Black Panther white would make no sense since being a black African is important to his character.

It's funny people are more upset about the Johnny Storm casting than they are with Hank Pym (if they're even upset) in Ant Man, if you ask me MBJ has a better chance at conveying all the essential characteristics of Johnny Storm from the ultimate comics than Michael Doulas can for Hank Pym. Making Hank Pym like 90 years old is a much bigger change than making Johnny Storm black. I have to wonder why there isn't an uproar over what Marvel's doing with Ant Man, which is looking like a larger deviation from the source material than F4 is right now. I don't think it has anything to do with racism, I just think most people on here are blind Marvel fanboys that'll eat up anything they serve.

 

[karamazov80]

Am I incorrect, or was the only one "preaching" to others Jordan? Because if so, I would care much less than if the director did it, since he's just the hired help, so to speak. Though I wouldn't actually care in either instance very much. To me, it's like the Tom Cruise thing, or Sean Penn to bring up another name mentioned here. Actors and creative types can say and do crazy **** in their personal lives, interviews, etc. Unless it's so heinous that I object to it on a fundamental level (like child molestation or spousal abuse), I won't give it much thought. These guys are paid money to entertain me, and us. Let them blather on as if they are great, insightful thinkers if it makes them feel good. When Trank seems to run down the source material, that concerns me, because it hints at what he will do with the film. But these other thoughts don't seem to have much of a relationship to what we'll ultimately see on the screen. At the end of the day, I'll judge the movie based on its merits as a movie, not the opinions or insightfulness of the actors involved.

 

[jye4ever]

I want a ***** Blade.

 

[Khev]

But you see you're exaggerating everything. I'm actually not on board with gender swapping to appease the millions of feminists out there because changing the gender of a character is pretty much changing the character entirely. That's absolutely not the same thing as changing the skin color of a character which has no importance to the character at all. Obviously making Black Panther white would make no sense since being a black African is important to his character.

And why is being a black African important to Black Panther's character? Just make him a white guy who lives on an island with white people and lots of cool metal. You're picking and choosing what you think is important to a character based on nothing more than *your own personal preferences* and then trying dismiss everyone else's preference as blind fanboyism. And you don't even know you're doing it.

 

[Khev]

Am I incorrect, or was the only one "preaching" to others Jordan? Because if so, I would care much less than if the director did it, since he's just the hired help, so to speak. Though I wouldn't actually care in either instance very much. To me, it's like the Tom Cruise thing, or Sean Penn to bring up another name mentioned here. Actors and creative types can say and do crazy **** in their personal lives, interviews, etc. Unless it's so heinous that I object to it on a fundamental level (like child molestation or spousal abuse), I won't give it much thought. These guys are paid money to entertain me, and us. Let them blather on as if they are great, insightful thinkers if it makes them feel good. When Trank seems to run down the source material, that concerns me, because it hints at what he will do with the film. But these other thoughts don't seem to have much of a relationship to what we'll ultimately see on the screen. At the end of the day, I'll judge the movie based on its merits as a movie, not the opinions or insightfulness of the actors involved.

The only reason we're having this discussion is because the movie is so mediocre looking. Stupid crap coming out of the mouths of actors typically wouldn't be much of a factor but here it actually *is* one of those straw that broke the camel's back scenarios. If Tom Hardy (who himself doesn't seem to have a lot of social graces) came out and said that people who want another Mel Gibson movie need to get out of the house and you know you're all going to see Fury Road, yes, I'd think that was lame and stupid but...dat trailer.

 

[jye4ever]

pturtle dun goofed.