General NBA Discussion

[Y4NK33 PL4N3T]

James doesn't need to change his game, he needs the right pieces. If he had a healthy cold blooded scorer (ie. Westbrook, Durant, Curry etc.) and a solid supporting cast I believe they'd be dominate. I love Irving but I am not certain he is the cold blood needed and I made it known long time ago about Love. I consider James incredibly successful both individually and team wise.....He IS the greatest player on the planet

Everyone attributes success by championships which is indeed important. Haters / fans alike will find their reasons for the four losses. Personally, I don't fault him for the games lost in Cle as the talent he had on the court was subpar........Miami falls back on him. He had the cast to win and dropped the ball.

A healthy Irving, James and Love next year with the right supporting pieces, we will be back challenging again. No need to change his game....

Take any star in the league and surround them with cold blooded scorers and a quality cast and the team will dominate. So stating that surrounding James with top tier talent would help his teams dominate isn't saying much about his game. You're addressing team dynamics and titles but Deez and I are both addressing his inability (or refusal) to take over games in the late minutes of the biggest games. That has nothing to do with his teammates, and everything to do with his game.

You can't call yourself the king, the best player in the NBA, and especially the chosen one when you're shrink away from the ball with the clock ticking down in the biggest moments and guys like Ray Allen are the ones hitting the biggest shots delivering the rings.

 

[WWEJedi]

Take any star in the league and surround them with cold blooded scorers and a quality cast and the team will dominate. So stating that surrounding James with top tier talent would help his teams dominate isn't saying much about his game. You're addressing team dynamics and titles but Deez and I are both addressing his inability (or refusal) to take over games in the late minutes of the biggest games. That has nothing to do with his teammates, and everything to do with his game.

You can't call yourself the king, the best player in the NBA, and especially the chosen one when you're shrink away from the ball with the clock ticking down in the biggest moments and guys like Ray Allen are the ones hitting the biggest shots delivering the rings.

LOL. You must be a big NBA "fan" or very forgetful...

guys like John Paxson are the ones hitting the biggest shots delivering the rings for Jordan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnAr4I3-Z48

guys like Steve Kerr are the ones hitting the biggest shots delivering the rings for Jordan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2BlOTeoZVE

guys like Pippen are the ones making the big defensive plays delivering the rings for Jordan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTWdhAeCKYs

Nobody wants to remember Jordan had lots of help. Don't bad mouth Lebron for not taking all the big shots when Jordan never did either.

Nobody wants to remember Jordan missed big shots...

Jordan not clutch. 0-2 in final seconds with chance to win.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_Xh...8D3B6C9A283703

 

[filip629]

That discussion ended when LBJ, Wade & company lost to the one man band in Dallas.

Exactly. And the Heat are lucky the Spurs blew the end of game 6 the first time they faced each other in the finals. The are fortunate to have 2 titles out of the 4 finals they were in.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

LOL. You must be a big NBA "fan" or very forgetful...

guys like John Paxson are the ones hitting the biggest shots delivering the rings for Jordan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnAr4I3-Z48

guys like Steve Kerr are the ones hitting the biggest shots delivering the rings for Jordan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2BlOTeoZVE

guys like Pippen are the ones making the big defensive plays delivering the rings for Jordan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTWdhAeCKYs

Nobody wants to remember Jordan had lots of help. Don't bad mouth Lebron for not taking all the big shots when Jordan never did either.

Nobody wants to remember Jordan missed big shots...

Jordan not clutch. 0-2 in final seconds with chance to win.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_Xh...8D3B6C9A283703

Guess you forgot about the flu game

 

[filip629]

Just remember James gets out of the first round by himself and actually makes finals by himself

Dude are you for real? If MJ had to play the marshmallow teams in the East that LeBrick did, he'd have gone to the Finals every year. Are you seriously dismissing the Detroit, Indiana, Cavs, Knicks, Boston, and Heat teams of that era? Are any of the teams LeBrick played against stocked with the HOF talent equal to what MJ played against? Ask Ewing, Reggie, Charles, Stockton, Malone, Price, Payton, and a multitude of other players why they don't have rings and they'll openly tell you...MJ. The East was so watered down at the time LeBrick went to the Finals, it was a joke. You are comaring an era of MASSIVE HOF talent to scrubs and saying Lebrick did it with no talent and MJ couldn't. Put Lebrick up against the Cavs of the late 80s and his ass would have been out of the playoffs quickly. Put him up against the Kicks or Bad Boy Pistons and they would have beaten his sorry ass so bad he wouldn't have even tried to finish those games. Or are you forgetting the 'my elbow hurt game'? Yeah that's as inspiring as MJs flu game against the Jazz. MJ is an assassin with the stone cold will to lift his team to victory. He played with one other top 50 player and won 6 rings. Based on the level of competion and talent he played against in his era, he definitely needed Pip. He wouldn't have against the crap that was in the East during LeBricks first run in Cleveland. Bottom line is that there will ALWAYS be peeps making excuses for LeBrick. No one has to for MJ.

Oh and by the way, your Robert Horry comment about him winning 7 rings...don't forget who decided to take a 2 year sabbatical when the Rockets won their 2 championships. If not for that, you can add the Dream and many Rocket players to the list of peeps MJ kept from a ring.

 

[filip629]

Guess you forgot about the flu game

The flu game and the shot against the Cavs were just 2 games that showed how killer MJ was. MJ certainly missed shots at the end of games. I'm not claiming he's perfect. No one is. However, MJs will to win and ability to put his team in positions to win show how great he was. There was a reason the Jordan rules were created. In his prime, he was unreal.

 

[Deeznutz6]

A compliment.... about James?

Are you okay?

Don't think anyone he is disputing how great a b ball player James is and will continue to be, we are disputing he is better than Jordan

 

[sarakawa]

Don't think anyone he is disputing how great a b ball player James is and will continue to be, we are disputing he is better than Jordan

This...

 

[Darkseed]

Take any star in the league and surround them with cold blooded scorers and a quality cast and the team will dominate. So stating that surrounding James with top tier talent would help his teams dominate isn't saying much about his game. You're addressing team dynamics and titles but Deez and I are both addressing his inability (or refusal) to take over games in the late minutes of the biggest games. That has nothing to do with his teammates, and everything to do with his game.

You can't call yourself the king, the best player in the NBA, and especially the chosen one when you're shrink away from the ball with the clock ticking down in the biggest moments and guys like Ray Allen are the ones hitting the biggest shots delivering the rings.

Personally, I don't buy a single player the best of all time thinking. I enjoy both Jordan and James for what they do / did.

James controls the game for 48 mins. which includes the last minutes. The difference being folks accepting him controlling the game "his way" regardless the scenario vs folks expecting him to switch to a raging scoring machine to dominate the game. The later never being his game.

What player (who lost in the finals) suddenly changed their style of play to win? Bryant decide to become a distributor? Duncan or Shaq jump beyond the arc? Of course not...they played their game. I'd expect the same for any player....continue doing what got you to that point win or lose. Unfortunately being a Cavs fan, we endured two losses but I don't fault all that on James style of play. I'd rather have him then not have him....

Agree to disagree I suppose.....

 

[WWEJedi]

LOL. You must be a big NBA "fan" or very forgetful...

guys like John Paxson are the ones hitting the biggest shots delivering the rings for Jordan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnAr4I3-Z48

guys like Steve Kerr are the ones hitting the biggest shots delivering the rings for Jordan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2BlOTeoZVE

guys like Pippen are the ones making the big defensive plays delivering the rings for Jordan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTWdhAeCKYs

Nobody wants to remember Jordan had lots of help. Don't bad mouth Lebron for not taking all the big shots when Jordan never did either.

Nobody wants to remember Jordan missed big shots...

Jordan not clutch. 0-2 in final seconds with chance to win.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_Xh...8D3B6C9A283703

Guess you forgot about the flu game

And your forgetting The Shot against the Cavs, the series clincher against the Jazz. Yeah Jordan had had his amazing, incredible, all time great moments. Those are just promoted by the media as if nobody has done the same. "The Shot" meant nothing because it never brought him a ring... its like Lebrons game winner against the Magic... both are great plays that meant nothing cause both never won it that year. The Flu Game I am sure was blown out f promotion, the NBA had to milk there superstar for all the ratings they could get, pushing him as GOAT. The jazz game winner "the final shot" was absolutely awesome. One of the greatest shots ever. To bad Jordan didnt keep it his "final shot"

Don't think anyone he is disputing how great a b ball player James is and will continue to be, we are disputing he is better than Jordan

No, people just knock him and act like he cant do "it" while they place Jordan on some God like level and act as if he hit every game winner of every game of the finals. never missed clutched shots, did it by himself with no one else. The hate Lebron gets should be the same hate Jordan gets. But since Jordan was the most promoted athelete of all time by the NBA in the 90s some fans are brainwashed to the idea that he had no help to win and did it by himself.

 

[filip629]

Don't think anyone he is disputing how great a b ball player James is and will continue to be, we are disputing he is better than Jordan

Well said. I'm not a fan of James but there is no denying he's an immense talent. That said, he boasts openly about how great he is but doesn't have the accomplishments many of the very best of the game have. If he wins a few more rings (especially in Cleveland), then we'll talk. The 2 rings he did get were essentially bought for him. He had to jump ship to get them. If he can lead the Cavs to a couple of championships, he'll get my begrudging respect.

 

[WWEJedi]

The flu game and the shot against the Cavs were just 2 games that showed how killer MJ was. MJ certainly missed shots at the end of games. I'm not claiming he's perfect. No one is. However, MJs will to win and ability to put his team in positions to win show how great he was. There was a reason the Jordan rules were created. In his prime, he was unreal.

Yeah... his will to win was more of a compulsive mental order. He tried to cheat against an old lady in cards. Punched Steve Kerr in the face. Destroyed the career of Kwame Brown with insults that would make him cry. Bribed Barkely in the finals with a 20000 dollar ring so he would not touch Jordan (Jordan dropped 55 the same day he gave barkely the ring... hmmmm).

Lets not forget to mention his gambling problem where he refused to say no. Why do you think he left for two years? The NBAs golden boy was probably betting on NBA games and they covered it up to save face of the association and save the massive influence they built Jordan up to have. Told him to leave for two years then he come back.

 

[WWEJedi]

Well said. I'm not a fan of James but there is no denying he's an immense talent. That said, he boasts openly about how great he is but doesn't have the accomplishments many of the very best of the game have. If he wins a few more rings (especially in Cleveland), then we'll talk. The 2 rings he did get were essentially bought for him. He had to jump ship to get them. If he can lead the Cavs to a couple of championships, he'll get my begrudging respect.

Yup, and Jordan can thank Steve Kerr and John Paxson for two of his rings too.

 

[filip629]

And your forgetting The Shot against the Cavs, the series clincher against the Jazz. Yeah Jordan had had his amazing, incredible, all time great moments. Those are just promoted by the media as if nobody has done the same. "The Shot" meant nothing because it never brought him a ring... its like Lebrons game winner against the Magic... both are great plays that meant nothing cause both never won it that year.

The difference is that The Shot eventually lead to one of the greatest dynasties in the modern NBA. LeBron's game winner against the Magic...not so much.

 

[Royce12]

Nah Steve Kerr and John Paxson can thank Jordan for getting them there and creating the opportunity for them to step up.


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[filip629]

Yeah... his will to win was more of a compulsive mental order. He tried to cheat against an old lady in cards. Punched Steve Kerr in the face. Destroyed the career of Kwame Brown with insults that would make him cry. Bribed Barkely in the finals with a 20000 dollar ring so he would not touch Jordan (Jordan dropped 55 the same day he gave barkely the ring... hmmmm).

Lets not forget to mention his gambling problem where he refused to say no. Why do you think he left for two years? The NBAs golden boy was probably betting on NBA games and they covered it up to save face of the association and save the massive influence they built Jordan up to have. Told him to leave for two years then he come back.

Right...the death of the man's father had no bearing on him during the time he took off. Whether you like him or not, whether you like his tactics or not, MJ is a superstar and a proven winner. Maybe LeBrick should start taking notes.

 

[WWEJedi]

Dude are you for real? If MJ had to play the marshmallow teams in the East that LeBrick did, he'd have gone to the Finals every year. Are you seriously dismissing the Detroit, Indiana, Cavs, Knicks, Boston, and Heat teams of that era? Are any of the teams LeBrick played against stocked with the HOF talent equal to what MJ played against? Ask Ewing, Reggie, Charles, Stockton, Malone, Price, Payton, and a multitude of other players why they don't have rings and they'll openly tell you...MJ. The East was so watered down at the time LeBrick went to the Finals, it was a joke. You are comaring an era of MASSIVE HOF talent to scrubs and saying Lebrick did it with no talent and MJ couldn't. Put Lebrick up against the Cavs of the late 80s and his ass would have been out of the playoffs quickly. Put him up against the Kicks or Bad Boy Pistons and they would have beaten his sorry ass so bad he wouldn't have even tried to finish those games. Or are you forgetting the 'my elbow hurt game'? Yeah that's as inspiring as MJs flu game against the Jazz. MJ is an assassin with the stone cold will to lift his team to victory. He played with one other top 50 player and won 6 rings. Based on the level of competion and talent he played against in his era, he definitely needed Pip. He wouldn't have against the crap that was in the East during LeBricks first run in Cleveland. Bottom line is that there will ALWAYS be peeps making excuses for LeBrick. No one has to for MJ.

Oh and by the way, your Robert Horry comment about him winning 7 rings...don't forget who decided to take a 2 year sabbatical when the Rockets won their 2 championships. If not for that, you can add the Dream and many Rocket players to the list of peeps MJ kept from a ring.

Jordan was forced to leave during those years because of his gambling problem.

Im not making excuses for Lebron, if you actually read my posts, i admit he chokes some, just like jordan did.

He played with five hall of famers, he never won a ring without at least two. He played with two amazing three point greats.

As for the east, some of those teams are overrated. And for the bad boys pistons, Jordan could not get by them until he had Pippen.

 

[WWEJedi]

Nah Steve Kerr and John Paxson can thank Jordan for getting them there and creating the opportunity for them to step up.


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Just as Ray Allen can thank James for getting him there.

 

[WWEJedi]

Right...the death of the man's father had no bearing on him during the time he took off. Whether you like him or not, whether you like his tactics or not, MJ is a superstar and a proven winner. Maybe LeBrick should start taking notes.

Then he goes and plays baseball.... riight.

As for the "LeBrick" comments..... James is a proven superstar and winner too, dont act like he is not.

 

[WWEJedi]

The difference is that The Shot eventually lead to one of the greatest dynasties in the modern NBA. LeBron's game winner against the Magic...not so much.

The Shot didnt lead to anything, signing Pippen did. Dont lie to yourself.