General NBA Discussion

[mutant-man]

For whatever reason, both of them couldn't get it done with the teams that drafted them and left to join teams that were stacked with talent so they could win a ring. Personally, I don't count any of the titles Bron won with the Heat as legit. He gets props from me for this year. He came back to Cleveland and lead his team to a championship. The 2 in Miami were colluded and bought for. I'll feel no differently about KD if he wins a ring with GS. It's bought and paid for.

There are two differences, however, that muddy the picture.

1) When LeBron left, he did so in just about the least professional and decent way possible. So, despite his having made a sensible career and personal choice, he became a villain due to the way in which he left. Durant's sell-out is more egregious but has drawn less ire because he wasn't a total nimrod about the way he announced it.

2) LeBron learned to win in Miami, and the change of organizational culture helped him mature. But as others have pointed out, Durant is leaving a stacked team and has basically always had another bona fide superstar to play with. LeBron had guys like Delonte "I'm now a homeless beggar in Maryland" West and Drew Gooden on his team. So to say that LeBron couldn't get it done in Cleveland places the full blame on him without considering the organization's failure to build a real team around him.

Anyway, in 8 months we'll have a much better sense of how Durant's move is working out.

 

[BurningRage]

Cavs got Kyrie and the pick to trade for Love because of Lebron leaving for Miami.

 

[sarakawa]

I'm not sold that Durant going to the Warriors even makes them a better team. They got worse defensively IMO. They are still just a jump shooting die by the 3 type team. If they are hot throughout the playoffs and finals they can win but if they go cold, they don't have any inside presence to do the dirty work. And adding another superstar offensively makes their chemistry a bit more questionable. Who's top dog? Most people would say this is Curry's team but Durant is probably a better player overall. It will be interesting to see how that all plays out...

 

[filip629]

There are two differences, however, that muddy the picture.

1) When LeBron left, he did so in just about the least professional and decent way possible. So, despite his having made a sensible career and personal choice, he became a villain due to the way in which he left. Durant's sell-out is more egregious but has drawn less ire because he wasn't a total nimrod about the way he announced it.

2) LeBron learned to win in Miami, and the change of organizational culture helped him mature. But as others have pointed out, Durant is leaving a stacked team and has basically always had another bona fide superstar to play with. LeBron had guys like Delonte "I'm now a homeless beggar in Maryland" West and Drew Gooden on his team. So to say that LeBron couldn't get it done in Cleveland places the full blame on him without considering the organization's failure to build a real team around him.

Anyway, in 8 months we'll have a much better sense of how Durant's move is working out.

I really don't care how Bron left. Yes, I agree that it wasn't ideal but it was his choice. As for the talent in James 1st run with the Cavs, he made it to the Finals with them. If he stuck around, who knows what could have happened? After all, it was just a little while ago when the Cavs were down 3-1 and we kept hearing the same excuses about a lack of talent on the Cavs. Yet, there was obviously enough talent on the team to win a title. The greats back in the day learned to win with the teams that drafted them. They earned their championships by learning to overcome the teams that were knocking them out of the playoffs. There was a struggle to overcome and a battle to earn a championship. That feels like it's missing in today's game. Now it's all about assembling super teams and finding a short cut to a title. It's about the path of least resistance.

 

[filip629]

I'm not sold that Durant going to the Warriors even makes them a better team. They got worse defensively IMO. They are still just a jump shooting die by the 3 type team. If they are hot throughout the playoffs and finals they can win but if they go cold, they don't have any inside presence to do the dirty work. And adding another superstar offensively makes their chemistry a bit more questionable. Who's top dog? Most people would say this is Curry's team but Durant is probably a better player overall. It will be interesting to see how that all plays out...

There's certainly nothing guaranteed by KD signing with GS. Like mutant-man said, we'll just have to wait it out over the months to come and see what happens.

 

[Shawpaw]

It's a really somber day here in city. Media is stunned and shocked. Local sports guys have no clue what next move is. Thunder will likely trade Westbrook to LA for pick in draft and players. Sam Presti won't give Westbrook same waiting game opportunity he gave Kevin. Westbrook will get to approve trade.

A longshot: Westbrook for kawhi Leonard. Probably 4% chance of happening but that's some of the rumors.

Current thunder players are pissed except or Westbrook, waiters. They were one choke from Kevin away from being able to eliminate GS. Players were confident in being able to get job done next year. But Kevin left okc in a ****storm. They traded Ibaka because Durant didn't get along with him. He didn't like Reggie Jackson and they traded him to Detroit. The thunder built themselves around Durant all these years and Durant up and left us.

Part of me wonders if he pulls another LeBron and comes back years later. But thunder fans have been supportive of him and loved him. It's just a shocking, bitter breakup. Okc was a loyal partner, always supportive and had his back. He saw another possible suitor with bling and left.

GS will use him for what they need. After 2 years, who knows what will happen. But thunder have been imploded. Westbrook gone, the NBA just got poorer as competition is gone due to these millennial type players.

I hope Cleveland repeats. I can't cheer for the rich getting richer. KD is not going to be well thought of here, given he way he left. We missed out in signing other talent because he took longer to decide.

 

[guyver1]

Now Dwade taking Durant's move , wants $50 mill 2 year deal to stay in Miami when they offered him $40 mill

 

[Neal136]

For those who were mentioning the short length of Durant's contract earlier in the thread ... the reason he only signed a two-year deal (with a player option after one year) is partly due to whether he wants to stay or not ... but largely due to the fact that the cap is shooting up yet again next year. Early estimates say it will be near $107 million. This way, Durant can opt out after one year and resign with GS for a larger, max-term contract. Or, you know, leave if this team somehow implodes this year. It's the same thing LeBron has been doing with his last few contracts.

On a related note, Durant immediately makes this team better. Like, scary-good better. He fits into their scheme perfectly. And, he becomes even more dangerous come playoff time. If teams are able to slow the Warriors' offense down again, they now have a player who can easily create his own offense in the half-court game. Plus, he's a much better defender than people realize, so GS's switching defense just got scarier as well. The "Death Lineup" just swapped out Harrison Barnes for Kevin Durant. That's quite a potent small-ball lineup.

A realistic question is how do you possibly guard this team? You can't double off of anyone ... not with the shooters they have. Durant shot around 40% from 3-point range this year which largely came on pull-ups and contested shots. How much better will he shoot if he's wide open?

 

[filip629]

The way things stand, Warriors vs Cavs can just be an annual affair in the Finals for the next few years.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

The way things stand, Warriors vs Cavs can just be an annual affair in the Finals for the next few years.

Boring

 

[Shawpaw]

Too much of something may not be a good thing. Being a Thunder fan, one of the critiques of Kevin is that his defense really isn't good. His length is what gives him an advantage on defense. His offense is spectacular. Rebounding is average, turnovers / ball handling is poor, and his effort on moving offense is lazy. He likes to get set up on offense. If he drives, he tends to look to get fouled instead of finishing around bucket.

His fast break offense and D is good. Shooting is superb. Rebounding average, turnovers a problem , and ball movement is mediocre. Thats Kevin. Sometimes he will fit with GS, sometimes he will struggle. He is used to being the guy. This is Curry's team. Thompson is going to have his career hindered in that his numbers will actually go down. This his next contract may lose money as he will have less productivity over next few years.

I wouldn't write 2016-17 off yet. Just because they have the talent doesn't mean they will feel as a team. They going to have to clear that bench over next couple of years.

 

[guyver1]

For those who were mentioning the short length of Durant's contract earlier in the thread ... the reason he only signed a two-year deal (with a player option after one year) is partly due to whether he wants to stay or not ... but largely due to the fact that the cap is shooting up yet again next year. Early estimates say it will be near $107 million. This way, Durant can opt out after one year and resign with GS for a larger, max-term contract. Or, you know, leave if this team somehow implodes this year. It's the same thing LeBron has been doing with his last few contracts.

On a related note, Durant immediately makes this team better. Like, scary-good better. He fits into their scheme perfectly. And, he becomes even more dangerous come playoff time. If teams are able to slow the Warriors' offense down again, they now have a player who can easily create his own offense in the half-court game. Plus, he's a much better defender than people realize, so GS's switching defense just got scarier as well. The "Death Lineup" just swapped out Harrison Barnes for Kevin Durant. That's quite a potent small-ball lineup.

A realistic question is how do you possibly guard this team? You can't double off of anyone ... not with the shooters they have. Durant shot around 40% from 3-point range this year which largely came on pull-ups and contested shots. How much better will he shoot if he's wide open?

I might be reamed by this but I think it was smart by both GS and Durant to go for a small option deal. We still don't know how he will gel with the Dubs and it's still Kerr in charge and he and Curry are thick as theives along with Klay.

We don't know how Durant will be used, because Kerr always goes for a complete team effort. I know Kerr still wants 3 pointers rather than attacking the paint.

So with this in mind, Durant will be the focus, but it will take time for Kerr to recognize it's Durant's team

It's one thing to have a whole team on your shoulders like OKC but it's another to come into a team that has an established core of leadership.

 

[DinoDB1975]

The only players that will go for contracts longer than two years will be the mid-tier players that want security. Superstars like KD and LeBron James will be doing shorter contracts.

It's pretty insane that the reigning back to back MVP of THE LEAGUE is the fourth highest paid player on his team. But credit GS for rolling the dice and locking Steph Curry up with a long term deal before they knew that he would come back 100% from his ankle injuries.

I think the pecking order, and how soon they determine it, and accept it, is key. Like I said in an earlier post, KD and Curry are both former (in Steph's case, current) MVPs. Who will defer to whom?

 

[Neal136]

I think the pecking order, and how soon they determine it, and accept it, is key. Like I said in an earlier post, KD and Curry are both former (in Steph's case, current) MVPs. Who will defer to whom?

I realize that his words and the eventual reality could be two different things, but in texts to Durant after their meeting, Curry basically said he couldn't care less about being "the man" in Golden State:

According to a person who saw the text messages, Curry told Durant in a text message that he could care less about who is the face of the franchise, who gets the most recognition or who sells the most shoes (Curry is with Under Armor, Durant with Nike). The two-time NBA MVP also told Durant that if Durant won the MVP award again he would be in the front row of the press conference clapping for him. In closing, Curry’s message to Durant was that all he truly cared about was winning championships and he’d like to do that as his teammate.

Now, I'm sure that's not 100% genuine. You don't get to the level as a player that Steph's at without some ego. But, at this point, he's saying all of the right things.

 

[guyver1]

The only players that will go for contracts longer than two years will be the mid-tier players that want security. Superstars like KD and LeBron James will be doing shorter contracts.

It's pretty insane that the reigning back to back MVP of THE LEAGUE is the fourth highest paid player on his team. But credit GS for rolling the dice and locking Steph Curry up with a long term deal before they knew that he would come back 100% from his ankle injuries.

I think the pecking order, and how soon they determine it, and accept it, is key. Like I said in an earlier post, KD and Curry are both former (in Steph's case, current) MVPs. Who will defer to whom?

Health is good factor to weigh on as well. I remember a few seasons back when Durant was injured or a season he was playing injured. OKC was not at its best.

So it would be foolish to offer so much upfront in case he gets injured, it would be a waste of money.

Hats off to Durant's agent and Warriors management for coming up with a safe protective scenario for both parties. If Durant doesn't get it done next season, he can opt out of his contract and the Dubs won't lose any money out of it.

 

[sarakawa]

I realize that his words and the eventual reality could be two different things, but in texts to Durant after their meeting, Curry basically said he couldn't care less about being "the man" in Golden State:

According to a person who saw the text messages, Curry told Durant in a text message that he could care less about who is the face of the franchise, who gets the most recognition or who sells the most shoes (Curry is with Under Armor, Durant with Nike). The two-time NBA MVP also told Durant that if Durant won the MVP award again he would be in the front row of the press conference clapping for him. In closing, Curry’s message to Durant was that all he truly cared about was winning championships and he’d like to do that as his teammate.

Now, I'm sure that's not 100% genuine. You don't get to the level as a player that Steph's at without some ego. But, at this point, he's saying all of the right things.

Oh yea, He's telling Durant what he wants to hear. I do think he's being honest about wanting to win championships...that has to be the top priority. And if you don't have to deal with a Durant lead team in the Western Conf Finals, that helps too. Still, if CLE gets Wade, I think they are a better team now.

 

[filip629]

Boring

Pretty much.

 

[WWEJedi]

You've been watching too much WWE, dude!

It would work! Durant turns heel, only to turn face again!

For whatever reason, both of them couldn't get it done with the teams that drafted them and left to join teams that were stacked with talent so they could win a ring. Personally, I don't count any of the titles Bron won with the Heat as legit. He gets props from me for this year. He came back to Cleveland and lead his team to a championship. The 2 in Miami were colluded and bought for. I'll feel no differently about KD if he wins a ring with GS. It's bought and paid for.

"colluded and bought for." Your hate blinds you. Jordan's rings were colluded as well then since it was in the league's best interest the most popular player won rings. See, I can be like you

I really don't care how Bron left. Yes, I agree that it wasn't ideal but it was his choice. As for the talent in James 1st run with the Cavs, he made it to the Finals with them. If he stuck around, who knows what could have happened?

He did stick around.... for two more years. He got nowhere. He and he alone led that team to the finals. He had no "talent."

2007 Cavs Roster: Shannon Brown, Daniel Gibson, Drew Gooden, Larry Hughes, Ilgauskas, Damon Jones, Dwyane Jones, Donyell Marshall, Ira Newble, Sash Pavolic, Scot Pollard, Eric Snow, Andy V, David Weasley.

How many starters do you see on that list? How many of those guys are still in the league? Aside from Andy V... they were all average or below average bench riders.

After all, it was just a little while ago when the Cavs were down 3-1 and we kept hearing the same excuses about a lack of talent on the Cavs.

No, we didn't.

Yet, there was obviously enough talent on the team to win a title.

I really hope you are talking about the 2016 Cavs and not the 2007-2009 Cavs.

The greats back in the day learned to win with the teams that drafted them.

Yeah, and they all had another hall of famer or two besides them. That is why they "learned" to win, because there organizations were competent and drafted good.

I realize that his words and the eventual reality could be two different things, but in texts to Durant after their meeting, Curry basically said he couldn't care less about being "the man" in Golden State:

According to a person who saw the text messages, Curry told Durant in a text message that he could care less about who is the face of the franchise, who gets the most recognition or who sells the most shoes (Curry is with Under Armor, Durant with Nike). The two-time NBA MVP also told Durant that if Durant won the MVP award again he would be in the front row of the press conference clapping for him. In closing, Curry’s message to Durant was that all he truly cared about was winning championships and he’d like to do that as his teammate.

Now, I'm sure that's not 100% genuine. You don't get to the level as a player that Steph's at without some ego. But, at this point, he's saying all of the right things.

I think he is lying.

 

[Shawpaw]

Lying about lying

 

[WWEJedi]

Lying about lying

I hate myself


No, but honestly, the sandbox stuff has grown tiresome