HBO's Game of Thrones

[wofford29]

Ohh Martin has written this for the long haul and was very specific not to get attached to any specific characters. There really is no good or bad, just shades of grey and the only reason the HBO show changed that to some degree is so it fit better within tv viewing.


Evan

Well they've done an awful job of putting that on screen then. As someone without the supplemental knowledge of the book it's being portrayed in a very obvious good vs. bad manner, and people are fooling themselves if they think this shows majority viewership is familiar with Martin's work. That means they're in the same boat I'm in and this series will end up like Rome and will never make it past season two.

Spoiler

it just isn't a strong enough cast to kill off the guy being portrayed as the star of the series and expect the average viewer/non Martin reader to get excited about tuning in. The shows rating are already average to below average. Kill it's principle and its going to tank.

 

[silentman116]

The story may be awesome in print but for the tv series and the way they've set it up....(please do not click the spoiler tag unless you want to know some serious spoilers)(also, everything I've put in spoilers is just what I read on wiki. I've not actually read the books)

Spoiler

This show will not survive without Ned Stark. It would be like killing off Tony Soprano and continuing on the Sopranos. Especially if the Lannisters kill the King then kill Ned and none of them die. You can't have a show that kills off the principles while allowing the villains to continually get away with both figurative and literal murder week in and week out without recourse. Who would want to watch that! "Tune in next week to see what the people you hate get away with this time.". There isn't a strong enough central character other than Ned that would make this show worth watching. The way they've set up the series for the general public is that Starks are the good guys and the Lannisters are the bad guys and everyone is waiting for the good guys to get even.

I don't know how to respond to your post without my entire reply being one giant spoiler tag . All I can say is that certain characters will become vastly more interesting in season 2 and 3, so much so that I think you might forgive some of this season's more insidious developments. I actually love the fact that Martin never pulls punches. It really raises the stakes for everyone and gives the series a welcome tension and sense of danger that's usually lacking in your average fantasy.

Patience is key here. George R. R. Martin has this all mapped out and the best really is yet to come. Things that he sets in motion in book one may not pay off until book three, but when it does it feels well-earned. Justice, redemption, etc. will come in time, trust me. And If this story is going where I think it's going, the climax of the entire series will be huge.

So I'd say hang in there, but I'm a bit biased given my love of the books (which are quite a bit better than the show, which I also love).

 

[wofford29]

I've read the outcome of all the characters to what I presume is the current place in the novels. I can whole heartedly say that I see no justice that is satisfactory for me.

Spoiler

I want to see heads cut off and shoved up asses.

I wouldn't have a problem with anything if the series wasn't set up the way it is.

Spoiler

There just isn't anyone I care about outside of Ned because all the time has been focused on him and his character. The surrounding cast is even being used to develop him more so than themselves.

I don't know how to respond to your post without my entire reply being one giant spoiler tag . All I can say is that certain characters will become vastly more interesting in season 2 and 3, so much so that I think you might forgive some of this season's more insidious developments. I actually love the fact that Martin never pulls punches. It really raises the stakes for everyone and gives the series a welcome tension and sense of danger that's usually lacking in your average fantasy.

Patience is key here. George R. R. Martin has this all mapped out and the best really is yet to come. Things that he sets in motion in book one may not pay off until book three, but when it does it feels well-earned. Justice, redemption, etc. will come in time, trust me. And If this story is going where I think it's going, the climax of the entire series will be huge.

So I'd say hang in there, but I'm a bit biased given my love of the books (which are quite a bit better than the show, which I also love).

 

[silentman116]

Well they've done an awful job of putting that on screen then. As someone without the supplemental knowledge of the book it's being portrayed in a very obvious good vs. bad manner, and people are fooling themselves if they think this shows majority viewership is familiar with Martin's work. That means they're in the same boat I'm in and this series will end up like Rome and will never make it past season two.

Spoiler

it just isn't a strong enough cast to kill off the guy being portrayed as the star of the series and expect the average viewer/non Martin reader to get excited about tuning in. The shows rating are already average to below average. Kill it's principle and its going to tank.

Whoops, I took too long to respond and now I see that you managed to counter a similar sentiment in my above post before I posted it , so let me amend my reply with this: You do raise a good point and looking at it from a non-reader perspective, the show does seem to portray everything a tad too black and white compared to the more layered, shades of grey approach in the books. It's easy for me to say how great things will get in later seasons given my knowledge of the novels, but the average viewer isn't going to have a fan of the books sitting on their couch promising that everything will be okay in the end.

I'll admit that much of the novel's depth is sacrificed to fit the time constraints, and that the end product may not have the emotional resonance or character connection needed to maintain a decent audience (Now you have me doubting the viability of show, damn you! ).

All that said, I still think there are enough new story threads being introduced at the end of the season that, if done right (especially the potential doozy of a final scene), should hook a lot of people in spite of any ill-will garnered from previous episodes.

 

[silentman116]

Damn this infernal reply leap-frogging!

 

[silentman116]

I've read the outcome of all the characters to what I presume is the current place in the novels. I can whole heartedly say that I see no justice that is satisfactory for me.

Spoiler

I want to see heads cut off and shoved up asses.

I wouldn't have a problem with anything if the series wasn't set up the way it is.

Spoiler

There just isn't anyone I care about outside of Ned because all the time has been focused on him and his character. The surrounding cast is even being used to develop him more so than themselves.

I can only hope that they remedy this in the final 5 episodes by bringing the other stories to the forefront.

 

[Deckard]

Spoiler

Thr problem translating it from book to TV, is they aren't just losing a character, they are losing the best and most well known actor on the show.

 

[Jair]

Well they've done an awful job of putting that on screen then. As someone without the supplemental knowledge of the book it's being portrayed in a very obvious good vs. bad manner, and people are fooling themselves if they think this shows majority viewership is familiar with Martin's work. That means they're in the same boat I'm in and this series will end up like Rome and will never make it past season two.

Spoiler

it just isn't a strong enough cast to kill off the guy being portrayed as the star of the series and expect the average viewer/non Martin reader to get excited about tuning in. The shows rating are already average to below average. Kill it's principle and its going to tank.

My hope at least for the majority of the viewers of this show, is that they are in it for the long haul, Martin kills off his characters like rain falling from the sky. I also hope its the ride that's keeping viewers just not one particular character. We as audience's have been programmed by years of shows to only like the happy good endings, I know I'm bored silly of that stuff.

It's also quite possible this show doesn't last more than 2 seasons, it's expensive to make, it's filmed overseas and the cast of characters is large, I always thought it was extremely hard series to adapt, heck the story is still going on and he's on book 4 with 3 more planned, I really don't see how HBO is ever going to finish the series.


Evan

 

[jrice73]

This is my two cents--I've known pretty much everything that is in those spoiler tags since day one since this series began because I have several good friends who have revealed the plot of the novels to me over the last decade or more. Not a big deal to me at all because I just love what this television series is doing (plus I don't really know everything about what transpires) but the bottomline here is this--so what if that stuff happens in the book and in the tv series. If you are not convinced about what this series can do with "other" characters who are not getting a lot of screen time now but will in the future and become important role players, then stop watching now as you really are not truly invested in the series at all. To me this seems to be another example of people wanting instant gratification, instant satisfaction with everything. People these days don't have any patience for anything. And everybody comparing this series to Rome or Deadwood and how those series got canceled before their stories were done need to realize that A Song of Ice and Fire had a built in fanbase before the television series began. If you honestly think that HBO is going to kill this series, you really need to find out who the real fans are. They are not going to let HBO cancel this series mid stride not with another new novel coming out this summer and two more still to be written. Usually, with a genre television series like Thrones, the most viewers are always seen watching the first episode. And then viewership dwindles. Not with Thrones. Viewership since episode one has increased.

 

[wofford29]

You couldn't be more wrong.

 

[KrisSolo]

My .02 cents - never read the books (and don't know what's coming...), loving the series. I like the 'desposable' nature of the characters, the fact that anyone could run foil of a blade at any moment. It adds an unpredictability and tension often lacking in tv dramas. Tired of shows pulling punches just to keep certain characters in the show. Tis boring...

 

[Mister Ski]

My .02 cents - never read the books (and don't know what's coming...), loving the series. I like the 'desposable' nature of the characters, the fact that anyone could run foil of a blade at any moment. It adds an unpredictability and tension often lacking in tv dramas. Tired of shows pulling punches just to keep certain characters in the show. Tis boring...

Then you are going to love this series as long as they stay true to the books.

 

[316what]

And everybody comparing this series to Rome or Deadwood and how those series got canceled before their stories were done need to realize that A Song of Ice and Fire had a built in fanbase before the television series began. If you honestly think that HBO is going to kill this series, you really need to find out who the real fans are. They are not going to let HBO cancel this series mid stride not with another new novel coming out this summer and two more still to be written. Usually, with a genre television series like Thrones, the most viewers are always seen watching the first episode. And then viewership dwindles. Not with Thrones. Viewership since episode one has increased.

Then you know nothing about HBO. Rome and Deadwood were two of the more successful shows in terms of viewership on HBO and the plug was pulled on both of them. If HBO feels the show is too expensive to produce, they will pull the plug regardless of viewership numbers.

I enjoy the show and hope it won't happen, but I won't hold my breath for a 3rd season knowing HBO's track record.

 

[Deckard]

I've had HBO a while now and seen alot of shows come and go. Don't forget things like The Wire and Tell Me You Love Me, the Life and Times of Tim, Lucky Louie... Yup the Wire got canned. Easliy top 3 tv shows ever.

Sorry but this shows good no doubt, its up there with Rome and Deadwood and a very fair comparison, both of those were also really good, but in terms of viewership it is not a Sopranos, Eastbound and Down, or Curb Your Enthusiasm. I've heard no one in my everyday talk about this show come monday morning. They want the next big thing, especially when its costing them a ton of money. Hell look how hard Bored to Death struggled to get a 2nd season. I'll be genuinely suprised if this makes it to a 3rd season given that most of us have not read the books and don't know what to expect, we can only judge what we see at the time.

 

[Michael Crawford]

Sorry Deckard, but you must be working in a cultural wasteland It's all folks around my work place talk about come Monday.

HBO doesn't care about viewership, since they don't sell advertising. They care about subscribers and DVD sales. That's one of several reasons why they agreed to a second season so quickly - they won't really be able to tell how much revenue the show is going to generate for them until much later than a broadcast network show. When it comes time to make a decision on a third season, they'll look to the DVD sales for the first season as well as subscriber trends around the first and start of the second seasons. If they are what they think they need to afford a third season, they'll do it. If they aren't, they won't. They are a business afterall.

While I agree that some of the other cancellations were early, I'm not sure why people complain so much about the end of Deadwood. It was a historically based show, and it was getting near it's end - there wasn't much further they really could have taken it. While I was personally disappointed with the finale, it was still true to it's intent - to come as accurate as possible to the actual events. While they *might* have been able to squeeze one more season out, that would have been the best they could have done.

 

[silentman116]

Well, despite any misgivings some may have about the show, it continues to gain viewers week after week, which is a good sign:

https://insidetv.ew.com/2011/05/17/game-of-thrones-ratings-climb/

It's inching ever upward, so there must be some positive word-of-mouth happening.

 

[Mister Ski]

^^^
So far so good.

 

[DinoLast]

I've had HBO a while now and seen alot of shows come and go. Don't forget things like The Wire and Tell Me You Love Me, the Life and Times of Tim, Lucky Louie... Yup the Wire got canned. Easliy top 3 tv shows ever.

Sorry but this shows good no doubt, its up there with Rome and Deadwood and a very fair comparison, both of those were also really good, but in terms of viewership it is not a Sopranos, Eastbound and Down, or Curb Your Enthusiasm. I've heard no one in my everyday talk about this show come monday morning. They want the next big thing, especially when its costing them a ton of money. Hell look how hard Bored to Death struggled to get a 2nd season. I'll be genuinely suprised if this makes it to a 3rd season given that most of us have not read the books and don't know what to expect, we can only judge what we see at the time.

The Wire was not cancelled. The makers of the show had decided it had come to it's conclusion and it ended on a high

 

[Eiko82]

Martin was pretty good at sublety and the book I read had those two as lovers, in fact the book group that we read it in all of us thought they were lovers, so not sure where your looking, but hey if you don't see it not much I can do to convince you.

Out of curiousity, in what scenes did you see this?

I read the books a while ago so I might've missed it. But even my boyfriend who finished the second book this week was pretty surprised to see Renly and Loras portrayed as gay lovers. We never thought that they were lovers.

 

[Michael Crawford]

I haven't gotten to that point in the book myself, but I will say that the 5 people I know that have read the books, all of them knew the two were lovers. They echoed the earlier statements that it wasn't as overt, but it was there.