HBO's Game of Thrones

[Invictus Sol]

I agree that it is one of the best shows on television.

I just think there are some viewers who were really turned off by the events of last night. Good storytelling manipulates the reader/viewer just right and orchestrates events to alternately surprise, shock, intrigue and satisfy the audience. There needs to be just the right balance. We like to see a good payoff to a storyline we've been following. This was not the payoff some viewers wanted, and if a show goes too far in denying the audience what they want to see, the audience will revolt.

Last night pushed some people right up to the edge, and a few others went right over and are having an emotional response of hatred towards the show and author. They feel abused and betrayed and think the show broke the promise of a happy ending that realistically wasn't there to begin with. We allow ourselves to be emotionally manipulated by a story with the implicit understanding that the storyteller will give us a satisfying and happy ending. We expect it to be a safe and ultimately predictable experience. (We like twists and turns along the way, but in the end the guy needs to get the girl and the good guy always wins.) It turns out GoT isn't that kind of story--and you could certainly argue that viewers should have figured that out by now.

Agree with what you're saying, here. Haven't had a chance yet to go and check out reaction, but I can imagine it was a polarizing episode, to say the least. Hopefully the audience sticks around, though. I would be gutted if this show is cancelled before it concludes naturally (sort of like how Rome got wrapped-up super quickly when it didn't meet HBO's expectations).

More than anything, I want to feel something when I watch a show, read a novel, etc. and feel something for the characters and be on the edge of my seat with the plotting. Last night's episode did that in spades. I am still reeling today.

I'm sure he lost some viewers last night but will gain many more as he did with readers when the book came out. This has certainly got people talking and feeling. Pretty sure that's a win. There's obviously a lot more story to tell.

First show in a long time (maybe episode 9 of season 1) where people were messaging me throughout the day to ask if I'd seen it. Everyone I know who hasn't read the books or spoiled themselves (like I have on Wikipedia) was blown away and taken totally by surprise. No-one was upset, though.

 

[KrisSolo]

When I first read the book, after the Red Wedding I literally threw it down and said I wouldn't read anymore. I was so shocked and traumatised, I hated Martin and his whole bloody world. Took about a day or so before I simply couldn't resist reading on. Think a lot of viewers will do the same. Give 'em a week and they'll be back And next season will be just as epic!

 

[SwedishHeat]

Plot-wise, when did the deal between Walder Frey and the Lannisters go down?? Or was Roose Bolton always allied with the Lannisters and he arrived at Walder Frey's and proposed the allegiance??

I feel like I missed a significant chunk of the story. Though there's so much stuff to keep track of, I kinda always feel like that.

I need a flow-chart, or a Venn diagram maybe.

 

[a-dev]

When I first read the book, after the Red Wedding I literally threw it down and said I wouldn't read anymore. I was so shocked and traumatised, I hated Martin and his whole bloody world.

I get that. Thats how I feel at the moment.

Spoiler

I almost involuntariily exclaimed 'No!' as Robb's wife gets stabbed in the stomach, the first casualty of the whole disgusting massacre. And that vile king or lord or whatever title he is just supping on his drink as it all plays out before him

 

[TheFiend]

^ Lord Frey.

Yeah, he's a ****.




Anyway, GRRM says its the hardest thing he's ever written. He said when got to that part in the book he had to skip it and finish the rest of the book. It was the last thing he wrote for Storm of Swords.



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[denger4000]

Seem's like everyone is talking about the Lanaisters, when it was mainly Walder Frey and the Frey's who did this, and Roose Bolton, who just said the name in reference to Jaime. in the book he just says Jamie Lanaisters sends his regards, not sure why they changed the line

 

[darthviper107]

Agree with what you're saying, here. Haven't had a chance yet to go and check out reaction, but I can imagine it was a polarizing episode, to say the least. Hopefully the audience sticks around, though. I would be gutted if this show is cancelled before it concludes naturally (sort of like how Rome got wrapped-up super quickly when it didn't meet HBO's expectations).

No one's going to quit watching the show over this

 

[TheFiend]

Plot-wise, when did the deal between Walder Frey and the Lannisters go down?? Or was Roose Bolton always allied with the Lannisters and he arrived at Walder Frey's and proposed the allegiance??

I feel like I missed a significant chunk of the story. Though there's so much stuff to keep track of, I kinda always feel like that.

I need a flow-chart, or a Venn diagram maybe.

That's up for debate. If you pay attention there is acouple times during the season that Tywin Lannister is writing what could be correspondence. Walder Frey was betrayed so he aligned with the Lannisters. I believe Bolton just felt Robbs cause was lost. He broke a marriage pact therefore losing the Freys, lost the Kingslayer which caused discord in his camp, beheaded Rickard Karstark for treason and in turn lost the Karstarks ( half of his forces) etc. One blunder right after the next. Im sure there is other things depending where they are taking the show but I won't say. Plus Lord Bolton was never to be trusted really. Ned never did but none of this was in the show. He's a really creepy ****er in the book. He's very soft spoken,almost a whisper. Whenever he talks the whole rooms becomes completely quiet so people can hear him.

 

[TheFiend]

Seem's like everyone is talking about the Lanaisters, when it was mainly Walder Frey and the Frey's who did this, and Roose Bolton, who just said the name in reference to Jaime. in the book he just says Jamie Lanaisters sends his regards, not sure why they changed the line

Spoiler

The three orchestrators of the Red Wedding were Lord Tywin,Walder Frey and Bolton. They had a hand in it.

 

[Invictus Sol]

No one's going to quit watching the show over this

I was thinking more of whether there's any possibility that the audience is whittled down over time (because too many people start to find it bleak or depressing). Whatever, I guess. Can't change what it is, so I'm just hoping the audience sticks with it.

That's up for debate. If you pay attention there is acouple times during the season that Tywin Lannister is writing what could be correspondence...

Speaking of writing correspondence, Fiend, is there any backstory in the books in regards to who Talisa is writing all the time? I think in the show she always says it's her mother, but I figured there was something else going on there.

 

[Damnation]

Well said Tom. This is kind of where I'm at with this show and how Martin has written the books. I get the bad guys win some and that makes sense but they never lose at all. The worse thing is Jamie lost his hand. BFD as I'm concerned. I'll be honest the show doesn't make me want to read the books and I now have to assume Martin is an average fantasy writer at best.

You assume he's a average writer, wow.

 

[rushmore223]

Yes or No answer in spoiler tags please.

Will characters who deserve to die die in this show?

Less spoilery... (Yes or No)

Spoiler

Yes

More Spoilery...

Spoiler

Many of the people upset over Sundays episode will be reeling with delight over the fate of one, if not two of the shows most reviled characters

Extremely Spoilery...

Spoiler

Joffrey dies in a similar situation to Robb, and Tywin dies by the hands of someone most would not expect. Personally though, I was kind of sad to see Tywin die at this point, just because he is such a great bad guy.

 

[TheFiend]

I was thinking more of whether there's any possibility that the audience is whittled down over time (because too many people start to find it bleak or depressing). Whatever, I guess. Can't change what it is, so I'm just hoping the audience sticks with it.



Speaking of writing correspondence, Fiend, is there any backstory in the books in regards to who Talisa is writing all the time? I think in the show she always says it's her mother, but I figured there was something else going on there.

Actually, Talisa isn't in the book. Robb does marry but it's all completely different in the book.

 

[Invictus Sol]

Actually, Talisa isn't in the book. Robb does marry but it's all completely different in the book.

Right, I know it's a different character in the book, but is there some backstory that accounts for all the scenes with his wife writing back home so much? Guessing it's limited to the show and has no analogue in the books.

 

[ChronoBreak]

-Hush, Hodor. No-- No more Hodoring.
-Hodor!

 

[darthviper107]

I was thinking more of whether there's any possibility that the audience is whittled down over time (because too many people start to find it bleak or depressing). Whatever, I guess. Can't change what it is, so I'm just hoping the audience sticks with it.

The main concern is what they do with books 4 and 5, there's a ton of stuff in there that's not interesting so it's possible they could lose some of the audience if they don't do well with it.

 

[darthviper107]

Right, I know it's a different character in the book, but is there some backstory that accounts for all the scenes with his wife writing back home so much? Guessing it's limited to the show and has no analogue in the books.

You hardly get anything of his wife Jeyne, or even Robb really. He actually goes away for a while and shows up again with his new wife.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

You hardly get anything of his wife Jeyne, or even Robb really. He actually goes away for a while and shows up again with his new wife.

Yeah I read that part. He just strolls back into riverrun with her

 

[TheFiend]

Right, I know it's a different character in the book, but is there some backstory that accounts for all the scenes with his wife writing back home so much? Guessing it's limited to the show and has no analogue in the books.

Yeah, its limited to the show. His wife in the book is from Westeros and has a very, very limited role. I dont even think she has any real diologue. Her name was Jeyne Westerling. I dont think this is really spoilerish. Seems a lot of you dont give a **** anyway.

The main concern is what they do with books 4 and 5, there's a ton of stuff in there that's not interesting so it's possible they could lose some of the audience if they don't do well with it.

My biggest concern.


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[SwedishHeat]

Seem's like everyone is talking about the Lanaisters, when it was mainly Walder Frey and the Frey's who did this, and Roose Bolton, who just said the name in reference to Jaime. in the book he just says Jamie Lanaisters sends his regards, not sure why they changed the line

That makes sense.

Though I'd wager they changed the dialogue because they were trying to make us root for Jamie Lannister, as Deckard mentioned a few pages ago. Can't really stab Robb in the heart and say "Jamie Lannister sends his regards", as it kinda undercuts all that sympathy and "heroism" we saw with Jamie three week ago.