1/6 Hot Toys Avengers: Endgame - Armored Thanos

[SilverStar17]

Spoiler

But they specifically state that changing the past does NOT change the future that's already happened. It just creates an alternate branch. I don't know if they can entirely avoid creating branches... the very act of them BEING there should do that, whether they mess with anything or not. But they can try to prevent disastrous alternate branches that occur from the stones being unavailable.

So for instance, Banner wants to take the time stone from 2012. But if he does that, Strange won't have it to defeat Dormamu five years later. So they have to bring the time stone back to the exact point so that everything continues to happen as it's supposed to. They're not changing the past, they're changing their own future, while preventing that alternate devasatating branch from happening.

As far as Cap is concerned, he may return the Space Stone to 1970, but he does not stay there. Present Cap goes back to the 1950s (the cars we see at the end are from the 40s/50s) to live his life with Peggy. However, Past Cap is still actually in the ice at that point. So there would technically be two Steve Rogers'. Present Cap can live his life and grow old with Peggy, meanwhile Past Cap can still get defrosted in 2012, and go on to defend New York and team up with the Avengers if needed.

In fact, when we see Steve visit older Peggy in Winter Soldier, we find out she got married, had children, etc. We see the photos, but no photos of her husband. Perhaps her husband was other Steve Rogers' the whole time (she does show signs of dementia during their conversation).

Of course, that theory then starts to get a little weird when you consider Steve goes on to make out with Peggy's Grand Niece, if his future-self is actually Sharon's grand-uncle.

And you also have to sort out in which timeline Thanos no longer exists, because 2014 Thanos goes into the future and dies, which means he isn't there to reign terror from 2015-onward (no destruction of Xandar, no destruction of Knowhere, etc). So there's now a timeline where none of that stuff happened.

The timey wimey stuff gets pretty tangled, and often it's best just to wink and nod and roll with it.

Spoiler

Peggy does state though in that documentary that Steve Rogers was watching in the Cap exhibit in TWS, that the guy she went on to marry was one of the soldiers Steve saved in TFA. So it wasn’t Steve that was her husband. However, I agree that it should have been left ambiguous who her husband was, because it could indeed have potentially been present Steve.

Also, would they bother to look for past Steve in the Arctic, if they now believe that he survived the crash being that his present self went back and stayed there, so he’s seen alive? Past Cap might be a permanent Capsicle in that case.

But like you said, best to just wink and nod and roll with it. It is Disney, after all. Leave the real ramifications and perils of time travel to Back to the Future.

 

[TheBatman]

Thanos was way more badass in IW than he was in EG.

 

[medicomsucks]

Thanos was way more badass in IW than he was in EG.

Agreed. The CGI in one scene made his face all wonky too. Thought I was the only one that noticed but my fiance actually agreed with me....and that's pretty rare.

 

[CupcakeMcGraw]

Spoiler

Peggy does state though in that documentary that Steve Rogers was watching in the Cap exhibit in TWS, that the guy she went on to marry was one of the soldiers Steve saved in TFA. So it wasn’t Steve that was her husband. However, I agree that it should have been left ambiguous who her husband was, because it could indeed have potentially been present Steve.

Also, would they bother to look for past Steve in the Arctic, if they now believe that he survived the crash being that his present self went back and stayed there, so he’s seen alive? Past Cap might be a permanent Capsicle in that case.

But like you said, best to just wink and nod and roll with it. It is Disney, after all. Leave the real ramifications and perils of time travel to Back to the Future. [emoji38]

Spoiler

True, to your first point.

To the second point... If Steve goes back in time with the intention of living his life with Peggy, he is not going to announce to the world "Hey, I'm here!" He would never get left alone. Chances are, he just lived a quiet, anonymous life letting the world continue to believe Cap was dead (until they found him).

WHICH, if I remember correctly, was done by accident. They weren't looking for Steve, he was found by an expedition. So Capsicle would be found regardless of whether the world knew Other Steve was among them (plus then he'd have some serious explaining to do.

So I believe Steve went back to be done with being a soldier.

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[TurdFurgusonsHat]

As they say: they saved the best for last.

But...but.....Thanos was better in Infinity War....

The armor is cool looking but after watching Endgame I can't help but think he looks tougher without it.

Whatever your Thanos preference is, he is definitely now an iconic cinematic villain along the lines of Vader and the Joker.

 

[SilverStar17]

Whatever your Thanos preference is, he is definitely now an iconic cinematic villain along the lines of Vader and the Joker.

I agree with Thanos being a badass film villain, but the other two you mention have over 30 years of mileage to them and still remain easily (Vader at least) in the top five movie villains of all time. Until Thanos is still seen on birthday cards 30 years from now, the Vader comparison can wait I think.

Spoiler

True, to your first point.

To the second point... If Steve goes back in time with the intention of living his life with Peggy, he is not going to announce to the world "Hey, I'm here!" He would never get left alone. Chances are, he just lived a quiet, anonymous life letting the world continue to believe Cap was dead (until they found him).

WHICH, if I remember correctly, was done by accident. They weren't looking for Steve, he was found by an expedition. So Capsicle would be found regardless of whether the world knew Other Steve was among them (plus then he'd have some serious explaining to do.

So I believe Steve went back to be done with being a soldier.

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If they did find Cap by accident in TFA, then I would agree.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

I agree with Thanos being a badass film villain, but the other two you mention have over 30 years of mileage to them and still remain easily (Vader at least) in the top five movie villains of all time. Until Thanos is still seen on birthday cards 30 years from now, the Vader comparison can wait I think.

I should be more clear. I'm certainly not saying he is on the same level as Vader as an icon. But the MCU has achieved a level of success that one could at least compare to Star Wars decades ago. And Thanos is the MCU signature villain. Thus my comparison.

 

[Craig Walker]

Spoiler

I'll wait for the one arm headless burnt up farmer version

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[DioramaMaker]

MCU Thanos is a more interesting character than film-only Vader.

Fight me.

 

[Garo Predator]

MCU Thanos is a more interesting character than film-only Vader.

Fight me.

Oh no he didn't.

 

[SilverStar17]

MCU Thanos is a more interesting character than film-only Vader.

Fight me.

Darth Vader.

Enough said.

 

[TheBatman]

Darth Vader.

Enough said.

So corny....iconic but corny..

 

[SilverStar17]

So corny....iconic but corny..

Agreed. But the character just became A LOT more interesting. As did the franchise, as did Luke Skywalker.

 

[TheBatman]

Agreed. But the character just became A LOT more interesting. As did the franchise, as did Luke Skywalker.

I was a big fan of Rogue One. Vader really shined on that one..

 

[CupcakeMcGraw]

MCU Thanos is a more interesting character than film-only Vader.

Fight me.

I'm on board with this statement. We believed Vader was a super badass because the other characters in the movie said or acted like he was some super badass.

Thanos actually SHOWED us he was a force to be reckoned with. We got to explore his motivations for who he was and why he did what he did.

We didn't get to explore the "why" of Vader until the prequels and then... Well they weren't very good.

I love Vader, of course, but similar to Boba Fett, I think a lot of his epicness comes more from us building him up in our minds than it does from his actual onscreen actions.

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[Wor-Gar]

Comparing a 40+ year old movie to now.

 

[SilverStar17]

Comparing a 40+ year old movie to now.

Give the MCU 40 years and we’ll see.

 

[TheBatman]

Iron Man (2008) is already 11 years old and it has aged well.

 

[DioramaMaker]

Oh no he didn't.

Darth Vader.

Enough said.

So corny....iconic but corny..

Agreed. But the character just became A LOT more interesting. As did the franchise, as did Luke Skywalker.

Vader simply acts as a representation of "evil". In that regard he's a traditional villain and doesn't need to be more. Could Vader be as nuanced as Thanos? Sure, the EU had done this. There's a lot of psychology to the character that would be fascinating to explore. But as it stands in the OT, he's a foil to our heroes with some solid presence and memorable quotes. I can't look at Vader and say "I get where he's coming from". I see him strictly as bad. The scary thing with Thanos is that, especially in IW, there are points where you empathize with him.

I was a big fan of Rogue One. Vader really shined on that one..

Agreed he stood out. I know Disney and prequels are a tough SW subject, but I would love a live action series or movie about Vader hunting down Jedi. Have him emotionally grapple with what he's doing.

I'm on board with this statement. We believed Vader was a super badass because the other characters in the movie said or acted like he was some super badass.

Thanos actually SHOWED us he was a force to be reckoned with. We got to explore his motivations for who he was and why he did what he did.

We didn't get to explore the "why" of Vader until the prequels and then... Well they weren't very good.

I love Vader, of course, but similar to Boba Fett, I think a lot of his epicness comes more from us building him up in our minds than it does from his actual onscreen actions.

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Well said. This was my rebuttal I was going to write but you covered the bases.

[emoji38]

Comparing a 40+ year old movie to now.

100% valid. In the interest if entertaining the iconic villains talk it was inevitable. Like I said above, Vader is a more traditional, foil type villain. The audience doesn't need gray areas in the OT, it's good vs bad, but that's how those movies are supposed to be. Which isn't a fault, might I add.

 

[SilverStar17]

In a way in that case, you could make the same argument for General Zod in MoS. At least as compared to Zod in Superman II. The MoS Zod was more complex and at times, you empathized with him; especially when pleading his case what the only reason for his existence is.

I think that’s something a lot of modern films are moving towards, where as opposed to making something black and white as pure good vs evil, they make the characters, especially the villains, a bit more convoluted.