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[axecutioner18]

Except for Bane

If you do read the arc carefully Bane broke Batman when he was not even 50%... the arcs before show how much drained Bruce Wayne was both emotionally, psychologically and physically. The reason the writers did Knightfall was to coincide with the 'Death of Superman' story. They toyed around with Azrael, NEVER did they intend to make the passing of the mantle permanent. It was pretty deliberate making Azrael a psycho thus losing all sympathy with the fans. In a wierd way to redeem the mantle the writers gave it to the one true person everyone believed was worthy, ____ Grayson in the 'Prodigal' arc

Bane and Batman faced off in full form again during the 'Legacy' arc and Batman handed him his ass... he said something like 'you'll never break me again Bane' The only tine Batman has really been in trouble or has had really gone over the edge is with Joker... not even Jason Todd with his reappearance as, ironically, the Red Hood could traumatise Batman as the Joker did in 'The Killing Joke' and 'A Death in The Family'

 

[herzograven]

If you do read the arc carefully Bane broke Batman when he was not even 50%... the arcs before show how much drained Bruce Wayne was both emotionally, psychologically and physically. The reason the writers did Knightfall was to coincide with the 'Death of Superman' story. They toyed around with Azrael, NEVER did they intend to make the passing of the mantle permanent. It was pretty deliberate making Azrael a psycho thus losing all sympathy with the fans. In a wierd way to redeem the mantle the writers gave it to the one true person everyone believed was worthy, ____ Grayson in the 'Prodigal' arc

Bane and Batman faced off in full form again during the 'Legacy' arc and Batman handed him his ass...

 

[thenammagazine]

You think Bruce Wayne failing as Batman would make a good story?

Let's be honest here, it'd certainly set him up for a Batman Inc. storyline for future sequels, which was an aspect that was kept in continuity with the New 52. I don't want to say Nolan's known for "pressing the envelope" because I've found most of his decisions to be predictable, but I can say he's known for odd judgement calls that only work within his films (and sometimes bite him in the ass like killing Dent or naively thinking Hathaway could pull off a Newmar look).

 

[DiFabio]

You think Bruce Wayne failing as Batman would make a good story?

That's what most fans on a variety of different forums seem to want though. They either want to see Bruce hang up the cape and cowl and retire (become a philanthropist or something) or have some melodramatic, "epic" gladiator/braveheart type death.

I think those both suck personally. Fans seem to want Batman to be some kind of uber-martyr who needs to die for that "symbol" to have any meaning. I'm hoping that Bruce comes to some sort of balance with his persona where he's always Batman (fight crime, protect Gotham etc.) and Bruce Wayne (charities, philanthropy). Selina could sort of play into this with the Batman persona since Rachel was the driving force in the Wayne identity.

If that doesn't happen and the character does die or retires in defeat or victory that's definitely not how I envisioned the character arc from Begins, nor the premise/conclusion of the sequel to The Dark Knight.

 

[axecutioner18]

In The Dark Knight Returns... I expect it to end with Batman finally looking up into the nighttime Gotham and the subsequent 'births' of his colourful rogues gallery taking place all over different parts of the city...

signing it off for our imagination to envision future Batman adventures in the Nolanverse... this isnt the Godfather or Star Wars where we see the child become the adult and then his fall blah blah... this is Batman...

remember ONE rule about Batman you cant break no matter who you are, and what you do...

You CANNOT KILL the Batman

If you do... hell just come back again, and again, and again... and you can do NOTHING about it... period

 

[Avenger]

Fans seem to want Batman to be some kind of uber-martyr who needs to die for that "symbol" to have any meaning.

Personally, I'd have been fine with him riding off into the night at the end of the last movie, and calling it a day. I'm excited to get a 3rd movie, but sometimes *EXPLOSION* (couldn't resist), sometimes they do more movies just to do movies, and it sucks.

There's so many ways to end this, and IMO it just needs to end as if they're setting up the next movie. Cause, that's how Batman is, his job never done. So, he gets the call for another villian, and we don't need to know who it is, just that the fight goes on. It's generic, but appropriate.

If that doesn't happen and the character does die or retires in defeat or victory that's definitely not how I envisioned the character arc from Begins, nor the premise/conclusion of the sequel to The Dark Knight.

The major struggle for Nolan BW has been determining the need of Batman. In the first movie, he was the only one that protect a sinful Gotham. In the second, he was a self loathing symbol and a "dark knight", this time preventing Gotham from succumbing to its sins while hoping someone else could take the job. I figure it may turn out the third movie Batman ends up coming to terms that he has to do the job because nobody else can.

 

[intothevoid]

remember ONE rule about Batman you cant break no matter who you are, and what you do...

You CANNOT KILL the Batman

If you do... hell just come back again, and again, and again... and you can do NOTHING about it... period

Well, while i'm not exactly EXPECTING this to happen, I still think a possiblility is for Nolan to kill him off in the finale, in the act of saving Gotham, and therefore he finally becomes 'more than just a man'... becomes the 'legend' which is everlasting and therefore in a symbolic way, Batman rises and lives on forever in the hearts of citizens and criminals.

So yeah, you can KILL him physically, but you can't kill the idea of Batman and his martyrdom is what completes his transition to legendary status

Spoiler

recent rumours suggest the ending of TDKR is going to be an all CGI sequence, while i'm taking these with a massive grain of salt, if true, I can see the CGI sequence in the teaser (with camera moving up through building towards the light in the form of a bat symbol) being part of the ending sequence after Batman is killed

Again, while this is not the ending i'm expecting, i can see it happening, and see it working superbly if executed well.

 

[K07]

This is how TDKR ends. I'm one of the 5 who know:

Spoiler

Bruce gets a new suit from Fox because he gets the crap kicked out of him by Bane. He decides to revert back to his OC suit his TDK suit doesn't have enough protection. But Fox didn't cure the rubber the same way and he dies in battle because he's not shiny enough anymore.

Epic! I can't wait.

 

[intothevoid]

This is how TDKR ends. I'm one of the 5 who know:

Spoiler

Bruce gets a new suit from Fox because he gets the crap kicked out of him by Bane. He decides to revert back to his OC suit his TDK suit doesn't have enough protection. But Fox didn't cure the rubber the same way and he dies in battle because he's not shiny enough anymore.

Epic! I can't wait.

 

[DiFabio]

becomes the 'legend' which is everlasting and therefore in a symbolic way, Batman rises and lives on forever in the hearts of citizens and criminals.

you can't kill the idea of Batman and his martyrdom is what completes his transition to legendary status

This is not what Batman is about though and would kind of go against what they established in the Dark Knight where Batman, ya know, is a DARK KNIGHT.

If there's any martyrdom in TDKR, I'll be disappointed.

Batman dying or having the city "remember him in their hearts" would be the corniest thing ever. Batman is a dark hero. It would remind me too much of the whole train scene in Spider-Man 2 where Spider-Man saves everyone on the train from dying, gets knocked out (mask less) and they carry him back on aboard.

So after all that, that's what Bruce Wayne set out to do, become some kind of Shakespearean martyr who died for the people of Chicago? Some closure.

If that happens, I'm totally going to consider TDKR non-canon with Begins and TDK. Batman is better off riding into the night, into the future or up on a rooftop, waiting. The end. Yeah the whole Thomas Wayne, father and son, legacy stuff is all good, but don't go pushing Batman as some kind of melodramatic symbol for "da city".

Batman fights crime, plain and simple. He saw his parents murdered, so he symbolically avenges them. It's okay to make Bruce/Batman selfish like that. Yeah, Gotham is a big part of it but that's not why he puts on the cape and cowl to scare the ____ out of and pulverize criminals. If you go beyond this and get even preachier than crap like "justice is about harmony. Revenge is about you making yourself feel better. Which is why we have an impartial system. blah blah blah" then everything that was previously established will fall apart.

 

[thenammagazine]

Hey, Nolan killed 2-face and the Joker, Batman's not that far of a stretch.

 

[axecutioner18]

I wouldnt mind if Batman became a glorified beat'em up. Ive had too much cerebral/philosophical/psychological drama from Nolan... cmon... all I wanna see now is Bats breaking bones, cartilage and scaring the living daylights out of everyone...

A total hands on take no prisoners type approach... because thats what Batman is, a big bad bully. The alpha bully of Gotham to be honest... the criminals fear him you know. They dont want to be in the same room with him, or the elevator etc etc...

One of the best parts of playing Arkham Asylum was having Batman taking down, one by one all the armed chaps in a room and the Joker admonishing and scaring them even more...

 

[dominishin]

Yeah... too much cheese for Batman.

 

[CollectorNC]

Hey, Nolan killed 2-face and the Joker, Batman's not that far of a stretch.

Joker? He's alive in jail, isn;t he? I've only suffered through it 2 times, but I thought he was captured alive?

 

[intothevoid]

Joker didn't die... Ledger did

I don't get this 'canon' thing - joker wore freaking makeup in TDK, far as I'm concerned Batman can die no problem

 

[CollectorNC]

Joker didn't die... Ledger did

I don't get this 'canon' thing - joker wore freaking makeup in TDK, far as I'm concerned Batman can die no problem

Yeah, I know, but I didn't think Nam was suggesting Nolan killed Ledger.

 

[DiFabio]

Joker didn't die... Ledger did

I don't get this 'canon' thing - joker wore freaking makeup in TDK, far as I'm concerned Batman can die no problem

Not "comic canon", ____ that. I'm talking about established story canon. Joker wearing make up is perfectly fine, killing off Batman after what we saw in Batman Begins (an origin story) and The Dark Knight (a year after Batman Begins) is bogus. C'mon.

All these films have liberties that are taken, and that's fine because they're all different interpretations. However, who the hell wants to see Gotham City crying/understanding/respecting Batman because he died to save them with a sad, pounding Han Zimmer theme and a character rambling on and on about the sacrifice Batman made?

If that isn't a cliched twist, I don't know what is.

So Bruce became Batman, fought off Ras Al Ghul. Then a year later, the Joker popped up. Then the only big thing to happen in Batman's career was the appearance of Catwoman and Bane. That's it? A 4-5 year arc in character development then BAM, dead, boo hoo, our savior is dead?

That ain't no silent guardian!

 

[thenammagazine]

Yeah, I know, but I didn't think Nam was suggesting Nolan killed Ledger.

He did. He's gone on record stating that no other actor will reprise the role, so unless he's gonna pull a Lucas, we won't see Joker again. And I agree with Void. He's already bastardized the Joker, killing Batman wouldn't be that much further of a stretch.

 

[intothevoid]

Well to be clear while Nolans made it clear we won't see Joker again in his series, that doesnt mean he's dead - I'm sure he'll be mentioned in TDKR

And don't twist my words, he didn't 'bastardize' joker, just reinterpreted him

 

[thenammagazine]

Well to be clear while Nolans made it clear we won't see Joker again in his series, that doesnt mean he's dead - I'm sure he'll be mentioned in TDKR

And don't twist my words, he didn't 'bastardize' joker, just misinterpreted him