1/6 Hot Toys - BvS: Dawn of Justice - Batman

[bunnyfreakz]

I didn't like it either. Or maybe I kinda like it, but just because of Batman. I'm not a big fan of Snyder's approach to film.

It's kinda: MAKE EVERYTHING CGI, DESTROY AND BURN EVERYTHING AND THERE YOU GO.

I wanted more character development and all that stuff Nolan and Burton gave us. Sometimes back in the day, movies where better, because you couldn't CGI everything so the plot had to be interesting on it's own. Now it's just meh...

Heh what? Nearly half of movie or more is character development and people talking. I want longer Doomsday battle and batman vs Superman fight is not enough

 

[ConradVeidt]

BvS was a HIT- $870 million worldwide- check out how many movies ever made got that much. Geeeeeezzz

This is flawed logic considering it was the first live motion picture with Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman in the same film. Should have made over $1 billion easily, instead the film was less than stellar.

 

[ShaneSG]

This is flawed logic considering it was the first live motion picture with Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman in the same film. Should have made over $1 billion easily, instead the film was less than stellar.

This is true. You have 3 of the biggest comic heroes ever, on film for the first time. The fact that it hasn't cracked a billion is bad. If the movie was better, it would have made significantly more than its made so far. I would consider myself a DC fanboy, but I didn't even consider seeing it a second time. Too many flaws. The price of admission wasn't worth the few minutes of Batman that I enjoyed. I found a lot of the movie cringe worthy. I have no writing experience, but I can guarantee I could come up with a better story than what we were presented with.

 

[SilverStar17]

Personally, I think BvS was set up to fail from the get go with the media with a damned if you do, damned if you don't standpoint.

It made $870 million worldwide. It's being labeled as not being a blockbuster because it didn't reach $1 billion. I may be mistaken, but I believe Deadpool made somewhere in the $600 billion range, and that's being called a hit and a blockbuster. Granted I realize Deadpool is nowhere on the same level as Batman and Superman. Even if BvS did reach $1 billion though, what's next? It didn't reach $1.5 billion, so therefore, it's a failure?

It's not enough like the way Marvel does things. I'd almost be willing to wager that had BvS came out after CW and used Marvel's technique, it (and DC in general) would have been slammed for essentially being copycats of Marvel and just ripping off what they do and not coming up with any style of their own.

I also even read an article recently that now instead of slamming the film (since apparently that's been done to death), their new target is to now apparently attack the people who liked the film. I think the title of the article was something like, "For Those Who Are Defending BvS, You're Only Making It Worse". To put it succinctly, it essentially stated that critics didn't like it, it didn't make $1 billion at the box office, so just admit that it was a bad movie and you're only making yourself look stupid by trying to defend it if you enjoyed it. As I've mentioned before, I think for a lot of people, it's much easier to be a follower than a leader because if you just simply go with the grain, the status quo and do what everyone else is doing or saying, then it requires less explanation on your part than if you dissent. Similar to what Black Widow did in CW.

I don't think anyone is saying it's a perfect movie. No movie is perfect. I think a lot of people are just simply asking was it really THAT bad as what people are making it out to be? I mean THAT bad? While at the same time, there are many people out there acting as if CW is indeed a perfect movie.

I really think a majority of the reason why DC characters are scrutinized more than Marvel characters is because there have been numerous major portrayals of these characters already on the big screen. Therefore, people have a certain adaptation that they like and are attached to and consequently, it may affect their ability to accept and enjoy any other rendition of the character that they don't feel matches up to their particular favorite rendition. Whereas with Marvel, there really have been no previous major portrayals of those characters. There's no measuring stick, so it's easier to accept these for what they are. 20 years from now when they're made again, Thor will be compared to Chris Hemsworth, Captain America to Chris Evans, Iron Man to RDJ, so on and so forth.

 

[spindrift]

Ahhh I don't care- BvS was a great film experience for me and CW was good but nothing special

 

[spindrift]

Personally, I think BvS was set up to fail from the get go with the media with a damned if you do, damned if you don't standpoint.

It made $870 million worldwide. It's being labeled as not being a blockbuster because it didn't reach $1 billion. I may be mistaken, but I believe Deadpool made somewhere in the $600 billion range, and that's being called a hit and a blockbuster. Granted I realize Deadpool is nowhere on the same level as Batman and Superman. Even if BvS did reach one $1 billion though, what's next? It didn't reach $1.5 billion, so therefore, it's a failure?

It's not enough like the way Marvel does things. I'd almost be willing to wager that had BvS came out after CW and used Marvel's technique, it (and DC in general) would have been slammed for essentially being copycats of Marvel and just ripping off what they do and not coming up with any style of their own.

I also even read an article recently that now instead of slamming the film (since apparently that's been done to death), their new target is to now apparently attack the people who liked the film. I think the title of the article was something like, "For Those Who Are Defending BvS, You're Only Making It Worse". To put it succinctly, it essentially stated that critics didn't like it, it didn't make $1 billion at the box office, so just admit that it was a bad movie and you're only making yourself look stupid by trying to defend it if you enjoyed it. As I've mentioned before, I think for a lot of people, it's much easier to be a follower than a leader because if you just simply go with the grain, the status quo and do what everyone else is doing or saying, then it requires less explanation on your part than if you dissent. Similar to what Black Widow did in CW.

I don't think anyone is saying it's a perfect movie. No movie is perfect. I think a lot of people are just simply asking was it really THAT bad as what people are making it out to be? I mean THAT bad? While at the same time, there are many people out there acting as if CW is indeed a perfect movie.

I really think a majority of the reason why DC characters are scrutinized more than Marvel characters is because there have been numerous major portrayals of these characters already on the big screen. Therefore, people have a certain adaptation that they like and are attached to and consequently, it may affect their ability to accept and enjoy any other rendition of the character that they don't feel matches up to their particular favorite rendition. Whereas with Marvel, there really have been no previous major portrayals of those characters. There's no measuring stick, so it's easier to accept these for what they are. 20 years from now when they're made again, Thor will be compared to Chris Hemsworth, Captain America to Chris Evans, Iron Man to RDJ, so on and so forth.

Thanks for another insightful post- all true to me and well put!

 

[SilverStar17]

Ahhh I don't care- BvS was a great film experience for me and CW was good but nothing special

Me neither. My sentiments are that as long as a film is good to me, that's all that matters from my perspective as it pertains to me. I personally greatly enjoyed both films. I won't say which one I feel is better because while I do understand a natural inclination for people to compare the two being that they were released so close together, are both superhero films and explore much of the same themes, they have very different and unique styles and I don't feel the urge to try and compare them to one another. I enjoyed BvS just as much as I enjoyed CW and vice versa. Just finished watching CW for the third time last night, actually.

There are some people out there who are defending BvS, which I admire, but I also at the same time think they're disapraging CW just merely out of spite. That I don't agree with, because I do personally think CW was also a great film and it's unfair to either film in my opinion to trash it simply out of spite to make whichever one you personally prefer look better.

Thanks for another insightful post- all true to me and well put!

Thanks!

 

[dario2739]

This is flawed logic considering it was the first live motion picture with Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman in the same film. Should have made over $1 billion easily, instead the film was less than stellar.

I think there are many factors contributing towards this – mainly I think the certificate of the film meant they lost a huge amount of cash on kids not going to the movie – consider that for CW (for example) a large proportion of the box office take will be kids.
Also, the MCU has taken 12 movies to get to where they are - and is if only 4 of those made more than BvS? So factor in those two things and the BO doesn't seem to bad.

 

[dario2739]

Personally, I think BvS was set up to fail from the get go with the media with a damned if you do, damned if you don't standpoint.

It made $870 million worldwide. It's being labeled as not being a blockbuster because it didn't reach $1 billion. I may be mistaken, but I believe Deadpool made somewhere in the $600 billion range, and that's being called a hit and a blockbuster. Granted I realize Deadpool is nowhere on the same level as Batman and Superman. Even if BvS did reach $1 billion though, what's next? It didn't reach $1.5 billion, so therefore, it's a failure?

It's not enough like the way Marvel does things. I'd almost be willing to wager that had BvS came out after CW and used Marvel's technique, it (and DC in general) would have been slammed for essentially being copycats of Marvel and just ripping off what they do and not coming up with any style of their own.

I also even read an article recently that now instead of slamming the film (since apparently that's been done to death), their new target is to now apparently attack the people who liked the film. I think the title of the article was something like, "For Those Who Are Defending BvS, You're Only Making It Worse". To put it succinctly, it essentially stated that critics didn't like it, it didn't make $1 billion at the box office, so just admit that it was a bad movie and you're only making yourself look stupid by trying to defend it if you enjoyed it. As I've mentioned before, I think for a lot of people, it's much easier to be a follower than a leader because if you just simply go with the grain, the status quo and do what everyone else is doing or saying, then it requires less explanation on your part than if you dissent. Similar to what Black Widow did in CW.

I don't think anyone is saying it's a perfect movie. No movie is perfect. I think a lot of people are just simply asking was it really THAT bad as what people are making it out to be? I mean THAT bad? While at the same time, there are many people out there acting as if CW is indeed a perfect movie.

I really think a majority of the reason why DC characters are scrutinized more than Marvel characters is because there have been numerous major portrayals of these characters already on the big screen. Therefore, people have a certain adaptation that they like and are attached to and consequently, it may affect their ability to accept and enjoy any other rendition of the character that they don't feel matches up to their particular favorite rendition. Whereas with Marvel, there really have been no previous major portrayals of those characters. There's no measuring stick, so it's easier to accept these for what they are. 20 years from now when they're made again, Thor will be compared to Chris Hemsworth, Captain America to Chris Evans, Iron Man to RDJ, so on and so forth.

Great points raised as usual. Very true about the Marvel characters too – the Avengers were all pretty much unknown before the MCU, outside of the US anyway. The most well known characters Marvel own are Spiderman and Hulk, and they have had similar problems to what the DCEU has experienced.
Also though I feel it needs pointing out that the MCU gets away with the critical mauling that the DCEU has had. I really enjoyed CW, but man there were a lot of flaws with it... not counting the fact it was called "Captain America" when it was clearly "Avengers 3"!

 

[spindrift]

I think there are many factors contributing towards this – mainly I think the certificate of the film meant they lost a huge amount of cash on kids not going to the movie – consider that for CW (for example) a large proportion of the box office take will be kids.
Also, the MCU has taken 12 movies to get to where they are - and is if only 4 of those made more than BvS? So factor in those two things and the BO doesn't seem to bad.

Yes- the kids are what is bringing the big $$$$ to MCU movies and that is fine. DC's stuff(up to now) has been more adult in nature and limits the audience. I know parents who refuse to let their 10 year olds watch TDK for instance!!

 

[SilverStar17]

Yes- the kids are what is bringing the big $$$$ to MCU movies and that is fine. DC's stuff(up to now) has been more adult in nature and limits the audience. I know parents who refuse to let their 10 year olds watch TDK for instance!!

This could be true also.

In general, I think DC films are generally darker, more serious in tone and has better emotionally moving scenes than what Marvel films do. Whereas Marvel is more fun and more lighthearted with more comic relief (although I personally think Marvel has been getting a bit more serious in tone [sans GotG and Ant-Man] post the first Avengers). And I have no issue with that at all and I enjoy it. I wouldn't want to go into a DC film and wonder if I'm actually watching a Marvel film, or vice versa. Each universe has their own unique style.

Regarding the kids, there have been instances where people who hadn't seen BvS yet were contemplating bringing along a younger one, and I just gave them a heads up that even though it's Superman and Batman, it is relatively violent and has the almost nude scene with Lois Lane and therefore, isn't exactly a "kid" friendly film being that it's a bit more realistic in dealing with the harsh realities of the world (though I'm not an advocate for children being coddled and sheltered to the extent they are these days, but that's neither here nor there ) I wouldn't really recommend it for kids under 12, personally.

 

[ZombieRepublican]

It's funny all that is 100% true. But really the movie wasn't well. Written, plait wise or character wise, even forgetting main aspects of the title characters.

I still highly enjoyed the film, but I can see the crappyness clearly.
The only think marvel had over DC is all the characters are well realised and motivations clear with well written plots. Everything else is just style and flair.

BvS looks and feels more like a film which caters to my taste

 

[Chuck72586]

I think it's a real shame there are Superman films out now that people have to weigh whether or not they can bring their kid to it. I don't think that should ever happen. I like the more serious/mature take on the characters as much as anyone, but there has to be a better middle ground that can be reached so kids can enjoy this stuff, too.

 

[jab1023]

Personally, I think BvS was set up to fail from the get go with the media with a damned if you do, damned if you don't standpoint.

It made $870 million worldwide. It's being labeled as not being a blockbuster because it didn't reach $1 billion. I may be mistaken, but I believe Deadpool made somewhere in the $600 billion range, and that's being called a hit and a blockbuster. Granted I realize Deadpool is nowhere on the same level as Batman and Superman. Even if BvS did reach $1 billion though, what's next? It didn't reach $1.5 billion, so therefore, it's a failure?

It's not enough like the way Marvel does things. I'd almost be willing to wager that had BvS came out after CW and used Marvel's technique, it (and DC in general) would have been slammed for essentially being copycats of Marvel and just ripping off what they do and not coming up with any style of their own.

I also even read an article recently that now instead of slamming the film (since apparently that's been done to death), their new target is to now apparently attack the people who liked the film. I think the title of the article was something like, "For Those Who Are Defending BvS, You're Only Making It Worse". To put it succinctly, it essentially stated that critics didn't like it, it didn't make $1 billion at the box office, so just admit that it was a bad movie and you're only making yourself look stupid by trying to defend it if you enjoyed it. As I've mentioned before, I think for a lot of people, it's much easier to be a follower than a leader because if you just simply go with the grain, the status quo and do what everyone else is doing or saying, then it requires less explanation on your part than if you dissent. Similar to what Black Widow did in CW.

I don't think anyone is saying it's a perfect movie. No movie is perfect. I think a lot of people are just simply asking was it really THAT bad as what people are making it out to be? I mean THAT bad? While at the same time, there are many people out there acting as if CW is indeed a perfect movie.

I really think a majority of the reason why DC characters are scrutinized more than Marvel characters is because there have been numerous major portrayals of these characters already on the big screen. Therefore, people have a certain adaptation that they like and are attached to and consequently, it may affect their ability to accept and enjoy any other rendition of the character that they don't feel matches up to their particular favorite rendition. Whereas with Marvel, there really have been no previous major portrayals of those characters. There's no measuring stick, so it's easier to accept these for what they are. 20 years from now when they're made again, Thor will be compared to Chris Hemsworth, Captain America to Chris Evans, Iron Man to RDJ, so on and so forth.

Very good post. And great point about the likely response of "copycats" if Snyder and co. simply pumped out a Marvel clone in BvS.

 

[jedibear]

Great post, SilverStar.

It's apples and oranges to me as far as the whole DC vs. Marvel thing....I enjoy both, but gotta admit, it's the darker edge DC brings to it that appeals to me more these days.

I really like BvS a lot...saw it several times in the theater before it left and am looking forward to that extended cut later this summer. Saw CW once so far...liked it but....I wanted another Cap movie not a third Avengers one. And the tone was....just off a bit for me on this one. I'll see it again, but I'm not as drawn to it as I was BvS...

I like what Synder does...it's visceral and infuriating and...interesting. The Marvel movies are....comfortable...they deliver what's expected of them. Not saying that it's a bad thing...but I'll take the more challenging one in the long run...

Now where's that Batman figure?

 

[Tourist]

The only think marvel had over DC is all the characters are well realised and motivations clear with well written plots.

I could not disagree more.
Take Civil War for example, in it Tony Stark is written against character just to fit the plot.
There is no way the "rebellious", reckless egomaniac who created Ultron has now become a man who wants to be supervised.
The grieving mother by the elevator, the separation from Pepper Potts or the sad thoughtful stares are not enough to sell it.
The only time Iron Man made sense in this movie was at the end, after learning who killed his folks.

Another example is Spider-Man, take him out of the movie and the story is exactly the same.
His only purpose is to be there.
Then there's Vision, clearly they don't know what to do with a character this powerful, he is written inconsistently throughout the movie.
At times he is omnipotent, other times he is strangely weak depending on what the writers need, not his character.

You did not understand Batman v Superman and you clearly do not apply the same scrutiny to the Marvel flicks.

 

[epitaph04]

Jesus every single BvS thread has turned in some stupid back and forth nonsense about the movie. I actually liked the movie (kind of) but this crap is making me despise it and everything to do with it.

 

[Prime Clone]

I rushed out and saw BvS multiple times but have had no such urge with CW. I realise I'm very much in the minority.

 

[SilverStar17]

Very good post. And great point about the likely response of "copycats" if Snyder and co. simply pumped out a Marvel clone in BvS.

Thanks!

Great post, SilverStar.

It's apples and oranges to me as far as the whole DC vs. Marvel thing....I enjoy both, but gotta admit, it's the darker edge DC brings to it that appeals to me more these days.

I really like BvS a lot...saw it several times in the theater before it left and am looking forward to that extended cut later this summer. Saw CW once so far...liked it but....I wanted another Cap movie not a third Avengers one. And the tone was....just off a bit for me on this one. I'll see it again, but I'm not as drawn to it as I was BvS...

I like what Synder does...it's visceral and infuriating and...interesting. The Marvel movies are....comfortable...they deliver what's expected of them. Not saying that it's a bad thing...but I'll take the more challenging one in the long run...

Now where's that Batman figure?

Thanks!

And yeah, pretty much my sentiments as well regarding apples and oranges with the DCEU and the MCU. For me personally, I generally prefer the films that are more serious in tone with more emotionally moving scenes than the lighthearted and fun films, because they have more of a sense of verisimilitude to me. It gives a better perspective of the real world and shows exactly just how these characters would fit into our world today and our society and how their ideals and beliefs would be challenged based on how our society today thinks as an aggregate whole. Aside from him being one of my favorite characters, that's probably also why I tend to like the Captain America films because they tend to be more serious than other Marvel films in my opinion. Although, sans Ant-Man and GotG, I think many films in the MCU have started getting slightly a bit darker in tone post the first Avengers.

Regarding CW, I can see how people would essentially label it as an Avengers 2.5; however, it felt just enough like a Captain America movie to me with the overt political themes. To me, it very much paralleled precisely what is happening in today's politics, just in MCU nomenclature. The only part to me that was essentially Avengers 2.5 was the airport battle. Other than that, the film to me essentially centered on Captain America, Iron Man and Bucky, with Black Panther having the biggest supporting role.

Jesus every single BvS thread has turned in some stupid back and forth nonsense about the movie. I actually liked the movie (kind of) but this crap is making me despise it and everything to do with it.

That's not entirely true. The BvS Superman thread for instance is currently abuzz about the figure. Coincidentally, the figure has been released, so there is an existing figure to talk about and post and share pictures of. For the other unreleased figures, people can only talk about for so long how much they like the new body on the Batman figure or how they hope HT tweaks the sculpt on the WW figure or if Apocalypse Bats will ever go up for PO, before there's just really nothing new to report regarding these figures. In order to keep the threads going in the interim, people tend resort to other means of discussion until there is something new to report regarding the figure.

 

[jedibear]

I rushed out and saw BvS multiple times but have had no such urge with CW. I realise I'm very much in the minority.

Right in that minority with you. ...