1/6 Hot Toys - BvS: Dawn of Justice - Batman

[spindrift]

My sentiments as well.

Out of that list, I feel there were only four characters that were actually formally introduced: Batman, Lex Luthor, Alfred and Doomsday, with Doomsday being very loosely on there since he merely came and went. Although Doomsday is a quick character because the only purpose he serves in the canon is to kill Superman, and he did exactly that. There doesn't need to be some grand buildup with him, in my opinion.

Wonder Woman appeared in it, but I consider it more to be a glorified cameo because the background on the character wasn't really established; that's what the solo WW film is for. There were subtle hints to this in the film, such as her telling Bruce, "I don't think you've ever known a woman like me," or the email with him asking her, "Who are you, where have you been?"

 

[Lee in MI]

Except it really wasn't trying to accomplish all of that. Most of those were simply fan service cameos.
Granted I feel that there could have been far more organic ways to visually convey the existence of meta-humans,
but the cameos doesn't anchor the film in any way. The only characters that required any real introduction was
Batman and through him we come to know Alfred. Luthor would be next and to an even lesser extent WW. Those
are the key players. Justice League is designed to officially introduce those contained on your list.

But this is factually incorrect. There is an entire story line built around introducing these characters. So much precious time spent on setting them up that could have gone to strengthening other plot points. Think about what they could have done by scraping all the WW scenes and spending that time developing Luthor or even expanding the tension between Batman and Superman. Maybe making Luthor's "plan" more than a bygone era twisting mustache villain's plan? Soo much potential in this movie if done right.

Bottom line is the movie wasn't garbage. It's just some of us liked it more than others and are able to forgive it's flaws more readily than some. Again, I felt they were going to screw the pooch by stuffing too much catch up in the movie, and that's just what we got IMO.

 

[lordregnis]

But this is factually incorrect. There is an entire story line built around introducing these characters. So much precious time spent on setting them up that could have gone to strengthening other plot points. Think about what they could have done by scraping all the WW scenes and spending that time developing Luthor or even expanding the tension between Batman and Superman. Maybe making Luthor's "plan" more than a bygone era twisting mustache villain's plan? Soo much potential in this movie if done right.

Bottom line is the movie wasn't garbage. It's just some of us liked it more than others and are able to forgive it's flaws more readily than some. Again, I felt they were going to screw the pooch by stuffing too much catch up in the movie, and that's just what we got IMO.

It really was garbage. No excuse for it.

 

[Azrael23]

But this is factually incorrect. There is an entire story line built around introducing these characters. So much precious time spent on setting them up that could have gone to strengthening other plot points. Think about what they could have done by scraping all the WW scenes and spending that time developing Luthor or even expanding the tension between Batman and Superman. Maybe making Luthor's "plan" more than a bygone era twisting mustache villain's plan? Soo much potential in this movie if done right.

There is no storyline that centers on these character introductions in BvS. The cameos alone amounts to less than 3 minutes
of screen time for a film that's run time is 151- 182 min depending on the cut. Granted we're introduced to the fact that other
meta-humans exist and Luthor has been doing his own investigation, neither of which negates the fact that the Justice League
cameos are exactly that..cameos. You can remove that entire scene and it doesn't change the film one iota.
The real introductions and exploration happens in Justice League.

Bottom line is the movie wasn't garbage. It's just some of us liked it more than others and are able to forgive it's flaws more readily than some. Again, I felt they were going to screw the pooch by stuffing too much catch up in the movie, and that's just what we got IMO.

Indeed, the film does has its flaws, but since anti-DCEU sentiment has become trendy
much of these purported flaws seems to be astronomically exaggerated and every miniscule
thing nitpicked. I do hope however that they don't do themselves and fans a disservice by rushing
things to play catch up.

 

[Azrael23]

My sentiments as well.

Out of that list, I feel there were only four characters that were actually formally introduced: Batman, Lex Luthor, Alfred and Doomsday, with Doomsday being very loosely on there since he merely came and went. Although Doomsday is a quick character because the only purpose he serves in the canon is to kill Superman, and he did exactly that. There doesn't need to be some grand buildup with him, in my opinion.

Agreed, there's never been no real depth to Doomsday so there's no real need to frame an entire film
around him and Superman brawling. Within the context of the film he served his purpose and that was
to be a weapon.

 

[SilverStar17]

I do hope however that they don't do themselves and fans a disservice by rushing
things to play catch up.

I hope the same. There's really no need for them to feel like they need to play catch up because I think the cards are stacked in their favor right now. The MCU is for all intents and purposes done after Infinity Wars and on its way out. Many of their major characters will presumably be done, with their biggest name character from then on likely being Spider-Man. I don't feel many people will be interested in potentially seeing Bucky as Captain America, Ant-Man and the Wasp, Captain Marvel, and Dr. Strange by themselves as being the new cast of main characters.

The DCEU on the other hand, is just starting and all of their big name characters are still in play and will be for awhile, which are also arguably characters more widely popular than the MCU's main characters. I think people will have a greater interest in characters such as Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman than they will in the aforementioned new cast of main characters on the MCU side of things.

Agreed, there's never been no real depth to Doomsday so there's no real need to frame an entire film
around him and Superman brawling. Within the context of the film he served his purpose and that was
to be a weapon.

 

[kaidoy021]

Has the two pack released yet?

 

[FryFrizzle]

I find every time someone says something positive about BvS, armchair Directors come out of the wood work to make sure their often repeated opinions are heard. Jeez, can't people just let other people enjoy a freakin' movie.

 

[Azrael23]

I hope the same. There's really no need for them to feel like they need to play catch up because I think the cards are stacked in their favor right now. The MCU is for all intents and purposes done after Infinity Wars and on its way out. Many of their major characters will presumably be done, with their biggest name character from then on likely being Spider-Man. I don't feel many people will be interested in potentially seeing Bucky as Captain America, Ant-Man and the Wasp, Captain Marvel, and Dr. Strange by themselves as being the new cast of main characters.

The DCEU on the other hand, is just starting and all of their big name characters are still in play and will be for awhile, which are also arguably characters more widely popular than the MCU's main characters. I think people will have a greater interest in characters such as Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman than they will in the aforementioned new cast of main characters on the MCU side of things.

My sentiments exactly, the cards are stacked in their favor. I simply hope that the studio realizes it.
Truth be told Warner's always had an advantage that other studios didn't have when it comes to comic
characters. With the MCU eventually winding down, hopefully the DCEU carries the torch

 

[mattinglymint23]

I see an element of Revenge of ZOD In the Doomsday appearance in BVS. Aside from his origin I picked up a sense of recognition of super man by doomsday/ZOD - which I thought made it more interesting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Lee in MI]

I find every time someone says something positive about BvS, armchair Directors come out of the wood work to make sure their often repeated opinions are heard. Jeez, can't people just let other people enjoy a freakin' movie.

Dayum Mr. Trump...does everyone have to agree with you just to state their opinion???

I find it strange that some folks are shills and need to justify the faults of this movie just because.

It's called a discussion...look it up.

 

[FryFrizzle]

HAHA! You know what, you got me. You're totally right, please continue your discussion.

 

[Lee in MI]

There is no storyline that centers on these character introductions in BvS. The cameos alone amounts to less than 3 minutes
of screen time for a film that's run time is 151- 182 min depending on the cut. Granted we're introduced to the fact that other
meta-humans exist and Luthor has been doing his own investigation, neither of which negates the fact that the Justice League
cameos are exactly that..cameos. You can remove that entire scene and it doesn't change the film one iota.
The real introductions and exploration happens in Justice League.



Indeed, the film does has its flaws, but since anti-DCEU sentiment has become trendy
much of these purported flaws seems to be astronomically exaggerated and every miniscule
thing nitpicked. I do hope however that they don't do themselves and fans a disservice by rushing
things to play catch up.

The whole Batman hacking Luthors network to find the white Portuguese could have been told in a more concise way but they had to include the WW stuff, twice, and then the JL reveal.

All of that could have gone into making Luthor a more cunning and calculating crime figure instead of the Jolly Rancher sucking do|_|che he ended up being.

I think your "3 mins" is a little underestimated.

I do hope however that they don't do themselves and fans a disservice by rushing
things to play catch up.

Too late!

It might be vogue to bash DC but I think some of it is warranted. They have one of the greatest cache of characters available and even their retail presence is lackluster. I don't think it's the DC guys. I think it's the WB big wigs who keep things...kinda disappointing.

 

[SilverStar17]

I find every time someone says something positive about BvS, armchair Directors come out of the wood work to make sure their often repeated opinions are heard. Jeez, can't people just let other people enjoy a freakin' movie.

That's fine. Just as much as you're free to state your opinion that you like something, others are free to state their opinion that they dislike something. That's what makes for good discussion. However, the issue I find is many of the people who dislike it don't really come up with a good argument as to why it's bad. Nothing that isn't refutable at least. Often just citing back to what the critics said simply because they're professional critics, so they must know what they're talking about. I personally think citing any authoritarian source in a discussion is a weak argument because just because someone is an expert in something doesn't invariably mean they know what they're talking about or that what they say is correct. In fact, it makes it easier for them to fudge things because it's presumed you'll just take their word for it since they're an "expert". What it comes down to is either your argument is good, or it's bad, regardless of what kind of background you have in something. You're going to have to come up with a cogent argument that demonstrates why the opposing argument is bad as opposed to merely citing to authority.

Dayum alt Left...does everyone have to agree with you just to state their opinion???

I find it strange that some folks are shills and need to justify the faults of this movie just because.

It's called a discussion...look it up.

Fixed that for you.

Is it possible that perhaps people are going out of their way to find fault with the film just because?

 

[WhoaItsJBot]

You sure don't have to go out of the way to find things wrong with the movie. I didn't care for it, but I also don't feel the need to convince others to dislike it too.

If folks liked it, that's fine. It's funny how many arguments this movie has caused.

 

[SilverStar17]

You sure don't have to go out of the way to find things wrong with the movie. I didn't care for it, but I also don't feel the need to convince others to dislike it too.

If folks liked it, that's fine. It's funny how many arguments this movie has caused.

Some things could have been done better, just like in many other films as well. Hindsight is always 20/20. I personally hesitate to call anything "perfect" because I think just about anything can always have room for improvement, even if only slightly. Many of these faults are subjective though, just as are many of the things people liked.

However, as was mentioned a couple pages back, I think some of the things that people criticize about it are a bit superfluous, such as the "I'm a friend of your son" remark by Batman. To the point where it just comes off as bitching. Which of course is fine, if one wants to *****, by all means, go for it.

 

[sj2106]

I believe the remark "I'm a friend of your son" was more or less designed to put Martha at
ease given the context of the situation she was in. A woman being held hostage by armed human traffickers
By simply stating that he was a "friend of her son" he's merely driving home the point that he's there to help her.
This line gets far more scrutiny than it truly should.

Fair enough but it was just to illustrate how they went from mortal enemies to friends far too quickly for my liking. The death of Superman is one of his most iconic stories, to cram it into the end of a movie felt rushed to me. A two part epic would have made more sense for such an ambitious story. It's still one of my favourite movies just for the Batman scenes that feel right out of a comic book and Wonder Woman's awesome cameo.

I think JL will match it for visuals but have a more linear story that will prove less divisive. Most of all I can't wait to see how they handle Superman's return. November feels so distant right now, thankfully we have the WW movie to enjoy very soon.

I'll add my support for a Hot Toys blue suit Batfleck variant to. I don't expect to ever see it in the movie but it would be cool to see in one of these figures. If they did that Joker impostor thing, why not this.

 

[FryFrizzle]

You sure don't have to go out of the way to find things wrong with the movie. I didn't care for it, but I also don't feel the need to convince others to dislike it too.

If folks liked it, that's fine. It's funny how many arguments this movie has caused.

This is exactly what I was trying to say, that I admittedly wasn't very tactful in my way of approaching it.

I'm all for differing opinions and discussions, it's just nothing new. I don't see the need to correct, or refute their opinions when they analyze a movie they enjoy. Especially if I didn't enjoy aspects of it.

 

[spindrift]

I don't think the MCU is winding down- i think eventually here will be a new IM, Thor, Cap etc...but they know they are wearing out their welcome as the box office legs for the last couple films(well three) isn't as great as it was 2-3 years ago. I think the current line up is appearing so often it looses it's appeal. DCU will be the same if Bats and Supes start showing up in every film as cameos or stars.

 

[SilverStar17]

This is exactly what I was trying to say, that I admittedly wasn't very tactful in my way of approaching it.

I'm all for differing opinions and discussions, it's just nothing new. I don't see the need to correct, or refute their opinions when they analyze a movie they enjoy. Especially if I didn't enjoy aspects of it.

Refuting someone's opinion if you disagree with it is part of what makes a discussion though.