1/6 Hot Toys - MMS 249 - The Joker (Bank Robber Version 2.0) - 1/6 - TF Exclusive 2014

[DiFabio]

He fell into chemicals though and came out an unhinged madman. So that technically is his origin.

Everyone Joker incarnation save for Ledger Joker got turned into a permanent clown.

 

[morphosis]

He fell into chemicals though and came out an unhinged madman. So that technically is his origin.

Everyone Joker incarnation save for Ledger Joker got turned into a permanent clown.

technically not really true, its just 1 of the stories. His first appearance Batman #1 1940 he was a serial killer who modeled himself after a Joker playing card, and then killed people with his Joker poison which turned their faces into laughing grin. He didnt fall into chemicals until 10 years after that story, when he was written as one of the Red Hood gang members. Then over the years the Joker would even tell different stories about himself. Killing Joke seems to be a lot of peoples favorite origin of him. But really, he has no true origin, he has no real name, no one knows where he comes from.

Personally, i like to start with Batman #1 since its his first appearance. And its similar to TDK where he models himself after a Joker playing card and basically comes out of nowhere and just creates death and chaos going after the important or well known people of Gotham.

 

[amos brearly]

I think the 'beauty' (not sure if thats the right word? :/) of the Joker as a character is that he really has no origin. nobody knows his real name or how he came to be.

I still think that a major flaw in the burton batman movie was his awful handling of the joker origin. As much as i love that movie, that aspect still makes me cringe. dance with the devil etc....

Nolan just allowed him to show up and cause carnage for no apparent reason, that made him all the more unhinged and scary. The Joker is the single best thing about the nolan trilogy.

 

[DiFabio]

Yeah and the story in 1950 retconned him with the chemical origin. In his first appearance, the Joker is permanent white as well considering the paramedics rip off his shirt and his chest and arms are bone white. There was never any makeup, save for when he'd be in disguises ranging from a cop (#1) to a dignitary (a death in the family).

Sure, the origin before the chemical dip might be inconsistent (a stand up comedian, red hood, a guy that lost his wife, a mob hitman, an engineer etc.) but he's always been consistently permanent white from falling into a vat of chemicals and washing out on the other side. That's been the origin for 64 years. 50s, 60, 70s, 80s, 90s, all comic runs, Killing Joke, Dark Knight Returns (he has to add lipstick), '89 Batman, Batman: The Animated Series, The Batman, The Man who Laughs etc. Batman has always been present at this event as well (sometimes unbeknownst to him).

What's the Joker's origin? He was disfigured into a clown by chemical bath. What happened before that and who he was/used to be is a mystery. Not that per manure white skin and crazy green hair though.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Ledger is my favorite live action Joker and he was perfect for the type of film Nolan made, but I just want to see a classic/traditional joker on film, which we haven't seen. Nicholson was close, but he was too old, heavy, and the plastic surgery/prosthetic makeup was unnecessary even though it looked good. As far as the origin, he does have an origin in the comics...but at the same time he doesn't. For example, in detective comic #168 ( 1951) they mention him falling into the chemicals, but he didn't have a name, and he was unknown. In the killing joke, what happened in the flashback scenes may or may not be true, because he (the joker) is not sure. In new 52 Zero Year, the leader of the Redhood falls into the chemicals...but again, that may or may not be him. I'm not a huge fan of the chemical origin and I wouldn't use it on a film, but it is part of the history of the character, so I can see them using on a film, which it could be cool.

 

[DiFabio]

Yup.

The perfect film Joker would probably be a combination of Nicholson and Ledger. No origin (mystery) and youth like Ledger, chemical dip and ultra pompous flair personality like Nicholson. Oh, and obviously no cheek wounds from a bullet or knife like Nicholson and Ledger. No Joker has ever had that done to them. It's been cool in the films, don't get me wrong, but I could do without it.

 

[Chuck72586]

I actually prefer the TDK story of the joker by miles. Its very mature / adult in a way. He has scars, he is crazy, to hide scars he creates a nasty smile with a lipstick and then the next logical but insane step is to wear the entire joker face... The wall paint and the hair...

Its a very mature way of articulating how he is. Same was the case for bane. He was so brutally beaten that he had to wear that mechanism to breathe. We must remember many who went to watch these movies may or may not be comic fans and Nolan touched the subject in ways unimaginable but believable! Thats the key... Believable!

These were all humans and had to have a humane rational for appearance, including batman, cat-woman, etc... Pretty smart is what i say!

Nolan's films were indeed more believable, but I don't think that makes them more mature. The more fantastical elements of Batman and his supporting characters can be kept without having to sacrifice maturity or dumb down the material. It just depends on how the people involved handle it.

 

[RaBu]

HT also gonna make Joker 1:4 soon btw

so this one and the 1:4 coming soon

 

[automaton]

for me, Ledger brought legitimacy to the character... layers... he broke the stereotypical point of view... i am not excited to see the character revert back to his one dimensional comic book portrayal.

in my perfect world, the role would go to Tom Waits.

 

[morphosis]

Yeah and the story in 1950 retconned him with the chemical origin. In his first appearance, the Joker is permanent white as well considering the paramedics rip off his shirt and his chest and arms are bone white. There was never any makeup, save for when he'd be in disguises ranging from a cop (#1) to a dignitary (a death in the family).

Sure, the origin before the chemical dip might be inconsistent (a stand up comedian, red hood, a guy that lost his wife, a mob hitman, an engineer etc.) but he's always been consistently permanent white from falling into a vat of chemicals and washing out on the other side. That's been the origin for 64 years. 50s, 60, 70s, 80s, 90s, all comic runs, Killing Joke, Dark Knight Returns (he has to add lipstick), '89 Batman, Batman: The Animated Series, The Batman, The Man who Laughs etc. Batman has always been present at this event as well (sometimes unbeknownst to him).

What's the Joker's origin? He was disfigured into a clown by chemical bath. What happened before that and who he was/used to be is a mystery. Not that per manure white skin and crazy green hair though.

But the chemical dip dismisses his first appearances because most of the chemical falls are usually because Batman was chasing him down. In Batman #1 he was already the Joker, just like he is in TDK, before Batman confronts him.

Thats why its said by most comic book experts that "technically" has no true origin. You can certainly say "one" of the stories is the chemical dip turned him into the Joker, and its certainly the popular story, but when he was first created, he wasn't supposed to have an origin. They created the origin in the 1950s because fans were clamoring for it for 10 years. He wasnt thought of as falling into chemicals when he was first created. He was actually not going to be a continuing character either, they were going to kill him off.

Look up all the Batman history sites out there about the Joker and they all say "technically he has no origin".

Yes, to Clown Prince....yah, its sort of the going gag of the Joker, he may or not be telling you the truth about him. Killing Joke has the best line:

"If I’m going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice HA HA HA"

 

[Leon 911]

I agree... People must understand Nolan's movie were catered to a global audience, i can promise you many a people across the world would walk out of the theatre if he just stuck to the comic book flair. It's not about right or wrong, its about looking at it comprehensively and redefining what every one - comic book fans and or that novice first time batman movie goer kid in remote part of the world will experience and relate to. Lastly how ledger handled the character, there is absolutely none and wont ever be anyone to do it better....and this i am saying as a big fan of both the comics and the earlier movies. But like i say, to each their own... But probably TDK is the only batman movie i can watch any number of times without a blink and i also like how jokers wall paint + scar subject matter was touched. Different, unique and classy, brought so much flavor and color to the pool table scene and the tonight's entertainment scene...

for me, Ledger brought legitimacy to the character... layers... he broke the stereotypical point of view... i am not excited to see the character revert back to his one dimensional comic book portrayal.

in my perfect world, the role would go to Tom Waits.

 

[morphosis]

for me, Ledger brought legitimacy to the character... layers... he broke the stereotypical point of view... i am not excited to see the character revert back to his one dimensional comic book portrayal.

in my perfect world, the role would go to Tom Waits.

Heath definitely was inspired by Waits. its kind of amazing once you see some old Waits interviews, you see a ton of what Heath was trying to do

 

[melkorjunior]

Lastly how ledger handled the character, there is absolutely none and wont ever be anyone to do it better...

Well I think Mark Hamill has already done it better in the various Batman animated series, but that's just my opinion. I like Ledger's take, but it's an idiosyncratic one-off, and there will be other actors giving their interpretations of the character eventually.

 

[Lakhota]

I thought Jack was a child of the circus where his mom and dad were clowns and owned the circus. They were then tricked and ripped off losin the circus and tossed on the streets where his father and mother were street performers and eventually died in poverty. Their street smart son crazed with vengeance became the thieving, murdering, crime boss the Joker , ..... I just made that up

 

[morphosis]

I also think giving the joker an origin you can wind up making him a sympathetic character, which he shouldn't be. Thats why TDK got it right IMO. He came out of no where. He cannot be bought. he only cares about death and chaos. Thats what Batman #1 was about.

The failed comic turn gang member losing his wife then falling into the chemicals...its makes him too sympathetic and it spells out the origin for him to easily.

If they do the Joker in the future in film or TV, i hope they keep it a mystery about him. No name, no place of birth, just a psychotic serial killer no one knows anything about, and they never find out. Thats what make the joker so great IMO.

Its kind of like Jack the Ripper or say the Zodiac Killer. You get a lot of stories, people claiming they know, but no one really knows.

 

[Hologram AI]

Ledger is my favorite live action Joker and he was perfect for the type of film Nolan made, but I just want to see a classic/traditional joker on film, which we haven't seen. Nicholson was close, but he was too old, heavy, and the plastic surgery/prosthetic makeup was unnecessary even though it looked good. As far as the origin, he does have an origin in the comics...but at the same time he doesn't. For example, in detective comic #168 ( 1951) they mention him falling in to the chemicals, but he didn't have a name, and he was unknown. In the killing joke, what happened in the flashback scenes may or may not be true, because he (the joker) is not sure. In new 52 Zero Year, the leader of the Redhood falls into the chemicals...but again, that may or may not be him. I'm not a huge fan of the chemical origin and I wouldn't use it on a film, but it is part of the history of the character, so I can see them using on a film, which it could be cool.

I quite like how his former life is inconsistent and a mystery. It's become a part of his character, we don't have a solid story of who he was before he became the Joker. I always thought that the lies that Ledger's Joker told with how he got his scars was a nice touch on how his origin is inconsistent.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Well, they could still do the chemical dip in a movie and keep the mystery. As long as we don't know his birth name, his history, and who he was, then it doesn't matter if the chemical dip gave him the white skin. In the Nolan movie we know why he has a white and red face, makeup....and the mystery is still there. I always thought since Nolan wanted realism, he should have given the joker a skin disease, which it would be realistic. Look at Michael Jackson.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I quite like how his former life is inconsistent and a mystery. It's become a part of his character, we don't have a solid story of who he was before he became the Joker. I always thought that the lies that Ledger's Joker told with how he got his scars was a nice touch on how his origin is inconsistent.

Yeah, and the scars crate another layer of mystery. Why does he those scars? How did he get those scars? It works. But I still want to see a Joker without scars.

 

[Lakhota]

I think they should cast a female Joker [emoji133][emoji133]

 

[Leon 911]

I think they should cast a female Joker [emoji133][emoji133]

U mean miss HQ right?