1/6 Hot Toys - MMS 249 - The Joker (Bank Robber Version 2.0) - 1/6 - TF Exclusive 2014

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

It'd be like if DCD or Hasbro charged $10 extra for their more popular figures (like Boba Fett), regardless of what they came with. Or if Lego made an overpriced set just because it contained a popular minifigure. That isn't how it should work. Hot Toys shouldn't even be looking at secondary market prices, especially after they claimed that they wanted to combat them and scalpers supposedly.

Sadly, Hasbro or the online stores are doing just that with the black series . Darth Vader, Boba Fett and I think the Storm Trooper cost more than the other figures. Darth Vader is $10 more expensive than Chewbacca

 

[DiFabio]

Sadly, Hasbro or the online stores are doing just that with the black series . Darth Vader, Boba Fett and I think the Storm Trooper cost more than the other figures.

That's just BBTS (so far). But you're right, it's going to start happening more and more. Hasbro will soon follow suite.

It's just not right when every character, no matter the popularity, is part of the same assortment.

 

[hokietwo]

Hot Toys,

hehehehehehehe

 

[Jeff12burq]

Just read it Jeff.

We don't have the numbers, so we can't assume what's going on behind the scenes. Back in 2008 and 2009, there were several batches of the original Bank Robber Joker. I don't recall an instance where Hot Toys had one hand tied behind their back and were only allowed to produce a limited allotment. Certainly not by Warner Bros. or DC. By 2008, there weren't any limited edition numbers. They did away with certificates of authenticity and limited production. Hot Toys produced as many of the original Bank Robber Joker (and V1 Joker, TDK suit Batman and the Batpod) as retailers and distributors ordered. In fact, the ONLY Dark Knight figure that didn't see wide distribution was the Original Costume Batman. By Bank Robber Joker, they were churning these suckers out. Bank Robber Joker is literally one of the reasons so many people were attracted to 1/6 collecting and this very site. It wasn't some small, humble release.

While it's hard to determine how many they made, we do know there were several batches. Asia had two and DC Direct (the distributor before Sideshow) had atleast two. 2009 and 2010 had a lot of Bank Robber Jokers circulating for $140-$150 MSRP. There were so many in fact that if you went on the secondary market, it could be had for as low as $100, same with Two-Face. That doesn't sound like a small amount to me. You say 3,000 or 6,000 when it was probably a whole lot more.


The bottom line is, Hot Toys (and Sideshow) know that Iron Man, Predator and Nolan Batman are their best selling products, so they gouge the prices to meet the popularity. That's all there is to it. They're testing the waters to see what the average collector's threshold is and keep pushing and pushing it. The quality and cost of these plateaued about a year ago (back when they raised it to about $210 average). Now, they're just rising it arbitrarily. I highly doubt there's some mandate where WB/DC or Disney is coming in and saying, "hey license holders, we see you're making a ton of dough off our characters, we want a bigger cut". There are plans and contracts to these deals, you know that right?

All this is is, "hey, Iron Man, Predator and Joker sells, let's see if these guys will pay $300, if they do, let's go higher". Not "oh man, these guys that we did before are too costly to produce even though we mass produce a ton of them now to meet demand!" or "the license holders want our funds and are taking our cut!" Also, explain why over in Asia, the three of these guys amount to $216 (HKD 1,680), the same price as last year's Toy Fair figures? Someone in charge is price gouging, it's that simple.

That's what I'm saying, the plans and contracts do factor into Hot Toys pricing of their figures. And thanks for mentioning Warner Bros., forgot to mention them. WB is a BILLION dollar company and DC is probably somewhere around there too, way bigger and more powerful than Hot Toys. And they both have the upper hand on Hot Toys. Hot Toys needs these movies to be successful to survive. WB and DC would be just fine without Hot Toys.

When they are making these contracts, they are going to get every penny they can from these profits even though it is still chump change to them.

I completely agree that popularity of franchises and characters come into play with pricing as well.

If Hot Toys is making a version 2 of a figure it's because sells were great and there is still a demand for the figure due to improvements that will appeal to old collectors and the fact that there are new collectors in the market. And of course they are going to raise prices.

 

[Mike86]

But is this such a hard business? They have thrived because most companies have either done due diligence and decided the profits are not worth the time or straight out licensed with them. My guess is that the DC and Marvel licenses are at the very least a 2-3x on their operating costs. I find it very hard to believe larger companies cannot go grab some paint artists on the cheap the same way Hot Toys does and not make just as good of a product.

They havent because someone did the math, and it is more profitable to farm it out to HT based on the money they get from licensing. If it was worth more then HT would have been bought out or another competitor would have popped up by now.

Eh I don't think it's as easy as you think. While there are a lot of us I'd say the market for these kinds of high end action figures is fairly small overall. There are a lot of different factors as to why people may not be into this type of collecting but if you really think of it how many people do you know (aside from this forum or other online groups) who are really willing to plunk down big money for an action figure? I can't name many, I have one friend who likes the hobby and has a few Hot Toys figures but won't regularly buy them because of other priorities in life. Thus why there's really only a few big names making these types of figures. Now is that not to say that other companies couldn't attempt to do the same thing and be successful? No, but I kind of doubt that a lot of companies are really looking to get into the market. It does seem to be growing a bit even since I've been collecting (only a little over two years) but I still view the hobby overall as pretty niche.

 

[hokietwo]

Eh I don't think it's as easy as you think. While there are a lot of us I'd say the market for these kinds of high end action figures is fairly small overall. There are a lot of different factors as to why people may not be into this type of collecting and thus why there's really only a few big names making these types of figures.

Its not worth the time. Most businesses are not willing bet long term on $300 niche dolls. What technology is stopping anyone from making dolls? This is an extremely low barrier of entry operationally. Just go look at the customs section and see what 1-2 people can do on their own. Now imagine them with resources.

 

[Mike86]

Its not worth the time. Most businesses are not willing bet long term on $300 niche dolls. What technology is stopping anyone from making dolls?

I didn't say technology is stopping anyone from making dolls? The thing is though let's face it the collector who buys these figures has a certain standard. Look at the name of the fricken web site or how crazy people go over the most minute details being even slightly wrong. Dolls have been made in the past and while there may be some decent ones out there not many on a mass scale lower end price will match up with what a typical collector of Hot Toys, Sideshow, Enterbay, or whoever will put out. It's an apples to oranges comparison. Just because two things technically are alike doesn't mean that the people that collect them are the same. There's already action figures made of a lot of the popular licenses and some of us like those but a lot of us aren't necessarily as into them.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

HT could use some competition and that might lower the prices if other companies can get the same movie rights for certain characters. I just saw the Star Ace Steve Macqueen figure from The Great Escape and it looks amazing,imo. I think there are companies willing to give a HT a run for their money.

 

[Jeff12burq]

I am not trying to argue anything. I am just trying to correct the joker goggles you are using to justify this is the better one because you missed out on V1. Just because something is new does not always make it better.

Well, that's what we are in a complete disagreement.

I am saying this is the better one. And when in hand pics do become avaialble you will be proven wrong. Hot Toys will put out a better figure (more detailed, improved tailoring, better accessories like the duffel bag, and that AMAZING BACKDROP) today than they did 5 or 6 years ago. That only makes sense.

Now again if you were making the argument that you get more for your money with V1 at the $150 price tag (whatever it was when it came out) or get the V2 at the $270 price tag you would have a good argument. Most collectors would probably go with V1 even if it is NOT AS SUPERIOR as V2, but determined they are more than glad with the product at that cost.

 

[hokietwo]

I didn't say technology is stopping anyone from making dolls? The thing is though let's face it the collector who buys these figures has a certain standard. Look at the name of the fricken web site or how crazy people go over the most minute details being even slightly wrong. Dolls have been made in the past and while there may be some decent ones out there not many on a mass scale lower end price will match up with what a typical collector of Hot Toys, Sideshow, Enterbay, or whoever will put out. It's an apples to oranges comparison. Just because two things technically are alike doesn't mean that the people that collect them are the same. There's already action figures made of a lot of the popular licenses and some of us like those but a lot of us aren't necessarily as into them.

Apologies, I wasn't inferring you stated technology, I was speaking in terms of barriers to entering the doll market which is really the only hurdle outside of licensing. I agree with your assessment on the potential buyers. My feeling is that there are way to many people trying way to many ways to make a buck. If it was worth the time and effort we would see more than HT in this space.

 

[hokietwo]

Well, that's what we are in a complete disagreement.

I am saying this is the better one. And when in hand pics do become avaialble you will be proven wrong. Hot Toys will put out a better figure (more detailed, improved tailoring, better accessories like the duffel bag, and that AMAZING BACKDROP) today than they did 5 or 6 years ago. That only makes sense.

Now again if you were making the argument that you get more for your money with V1 at the $150 price tag (whatever it was when it came out) or get the V2 at the $270 price tag you would have a good argument. Most collectors would probably go with V1 even if it is NOT AS SUPERIOR as V2, but determined they are more than glad with the product at that cost.

Man I have forgotten how annoying you can be driving home your points. I have really missed you around here.

 

[hokietwo]

HT could use some competition and that might lower the prices if other companies can get the same movie rights for certain characters. I just saw the Star Ace Steve Macqueen figure from The Great Escape and it looks amazing,imo. I think there are companies willing to give a HT a run for their money.

damn we need Bullit.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

How about they make one that actually looks like Ledger for once? That is something new to them.

Well, that just mean!

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

damn we need Bullit.

I know right! That's the first thing I thought when I saw it But I like that look too.

 

[jago72]

I am not trying to argue anything. I am just trying to correct the joker goggles you are using to justify this is the better one because you missed out on V1. Just because something is new does not always make it better.

and for the most no smile head..
no smile head... no party..easy pass for me..

 

[Jeff12burq]

Man I have forgotten how annoying you can be driving home your points. I have really missed you around here.

I just don't understand how you think this 2.0 won't be an overall better figure than the original!

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I just don't understand how you think this 2.0 won't be an overall better figure than the original!

I don't know, The Batman Begins EX, the evil superman, Capt. America rescue version, Angelica I'm not saying this particular figure won't be good, but not all their TFEX are a homerun. However, you can say the same about the regular releases too.

 

[Fan]

Are people still complaining so much? It still didn't change: Nobody has to buy it but most who missed it and like the figure will probably like it and I'm sure many who already have the first version will get it as well for the improvements it comes with. If the clothing will be close to the shown prototype it will be an improvement that is worth it imo, it would cost a lot more if it was a low number custom tailored suit.

 

[Jeff12burq]

I don't know, The Batman Begins EX, the evil superman, Angelica I'm not saying this particular figure won't be good, but not all their TFEX are a homerun. However, you can say the same about the regular releases too.

I completely agree with you, Hot Toys "doesn't hit it out of the park" with all their TF Exclusives, in fact I've only bought two since 2011 (Batman Begins, and CA Rescue Versio). But with this being a 2.0 figure, Hot Toys will "up their game" and put out an improved figure compared to the one they released back in 08-09.

 

[Fan]

And for everybody hesitating just because of the missing watch, almost finished it:



https://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/showthread.php?146014