Kylo Ren has awesome lineage and isn't in a prequel. Ren > Maul.
1/6 Hot Toys - MMS 320 - Star Wars Ep.VII - Kylo Ren
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ronri
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No one's denying how Ren is an awesome character, just that Maul is probably the better fighter from what we've seen so far.
Ah, I thought the discussion on which was the better character (not just fighter). Because it's not even close.
No one's denying how Ren is an awesome character, just that Maul is probably the better fighter from what we've seen so far.
Yes, I tend to agree with that. I know we aren't supposed to take the old EU into account but since we don't have any other information about Maul's past and it's not too farfetched... Maul was trained as a deadly assassin and had gone through insane trials and challenges prior to Episode I. Kylo Ren is basically a wannabe Sith. A powerful one but not nearly as experienced from what we know, and not fully trained as a Sith. He isn't even one for now. Yes, the stuff he does with the Force is impressive but as far as fighter skills go, Maul was an absolute beast and died simply because he stood there like a moron when Obi-Wan jumped. When it comes to the duels, he bested both Qui-Gon (twice, Qui-Gon flew and would have died that first time on Tatooine) and Obi-Wan, and really kept his cool the whole time.
As far as character development/depth, of course Ren is way more developed in TFA than Maul ever was on screen, and I am sure he will turn into a total badass.
Can you post a picture of the actual helmet and the compartment you are talking about on top? I have this on order from BBTS and would like to see prior to shipping. Thanks.
ZombieGuy13
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Just watch the movie over the weekend. Kylo Ren such an awesome character. 
I need this figure now! 
I need this figure now! 
Sorry, but you guys forget that Mace Windu is supposed to be the best fighter in the order (with some controversy, cause some believe it's Yoda). That's why he killed Jango so easily and defeated the Emperor. He is the only Jedi able to dominate the Vaapad technique and don't succumb to the Dark Side.
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He didn't defeat Palpatine. Palpatine threw the fight so Anakin could see him at a disadvantage.
The issue with Windu is that the fight was so poorly done in the movie, it really ruined the whole backstory and how he is supposed to be unbeatable among the Jedi order with the exception of Yoda.
Even if you take into account the whole Palpatine throwing it thing, that fight should have been similar to Obi vs Anakin, if not more impressive. Unfortunately that was far from the case.
But yeah there is no way he would be fifth on that list. Anakin would probably have become better if he didn't turn into a semi-robot but... Too bad.
Even if you take into account the whole Palpatine throwing it thing, that fight should have been similar to Obi vs Anakin, if not more impressive. Unfortunately that was far from the case.
But yeah there is no way he would be fifth on that list. Anakin would probably have become better if he didn't turn into a semi-robot but... Too bad.
xenowolf
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I can definitely see the argument for putting mace in the number one spot, the only reason I didn't is because yoda seemed to be beating palpatine when they fought so I gave him the #1 spot(kind of unresolved tho). I gave palpatine the #2 spot because he single handedly killed all the Jedi sent to bring him in, he had anakins help when he was helpless on the ground but I always felt that he let mace get him to that point to finally force anakin to that breaking point of turning to the dark side. If am wrong about that then mace easily jumps to the #1 spot for me.
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I like the fight. Windu is basically ******** his pants at first which is appropriate given that he was fighting the ultimate Sith who had just killed 3 Jedi Masters in seconds.
Honestly, Windu would have been dead along with Kolar, Fisto and Tiin from the start had Palpatine not needed him to complete Anakin's turn to the Dark Side. Only Yoda could survive a fight with Palpatine.
Yeah, the point is Lightsaber duels without emotion or good characterization are just... boring.
ShadowX81
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More like Obi vs Anakin? That fight was a disaster because of how "impressive" and grand they tried to make it, with all of the rope swinging and balancing on tiny droids and all of the other distracting CGI crap they tried to cram in that scene. The best fights are the ones that are personal and focused on the characters who are fighting. Not the ones that try and cram in as many set-pieces and locations as possible.
I was actually fairly impressed by how subdued they chose to make the fight, especially after nearly ruining the scene with that campy bit of Palpatine spinning through the air.
The idea behind the fight is good, the execution was terrible. If you use the other lightsaber duels of the movie as reference points and take into account both protagonists' skills and powers, this should have been the most impressive fight of the movie with the exception of Yoda vs Sidious. Using Ian McDiarmid for most of it obviously limited the possibilities as far as stunts which is why it turned out like this. I know people don't like CGI but I like the Yoda vs Sidious duel a lot more, at least it makes sense in the context of the movie, it's insanely fast and intense and includes a ton of Force powers, which is how it should be in such case.
Also the way Palpatine kills the three Jedi is awful imo, they just stand there doing nothing (kinda like Darth Maul) like they were completely unprepared (those three guys are some of the finest swordsmen in the order). I understand what they were trying to show, basically how powerful Palpatine is even compared to a very powerful Jedi, they just didn't show it properly in a believable way.
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What sold the Palpatine/Sidious fight for me is that you can tell from the start that Palpatine wants to keep Windu alive. He basically taunts him throughout. Snarls, grins & scowls at him until Anakin arrives and he conveniently welcomes Mace's kick to the face.
I love how Palpatine sells the reverse Force-lightning bit to Anakin. People to this day still believe his face got fried during that scene and fail to see he simply dropped his Dark Side mask and revealed his true form.
Sorry, I didn't mean that they should have made a similar use of the environment, I was talking more about the early part of the duel, when it's all about crazy lightsaber skills. Sith and Jedi are super fast when they fight, Windu and Sidious are pretty much the best, so... It should be super fast/impressive, at least that's how I see it.
I don't feel any tension in that duel, it just looks ridiculous to me, especially when you take into account who they are.
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I actually loved how the saber battles were treated in this movie. I liked the sound that the blades made as they "bounced" off each
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Everything klwn is saying - spot on.
Fisto, Tiin and Kolar just standing there doing nothing while Palpatine stabs and slashes them is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen in the Star Wars franchise. It's obvious they were trying to show that Sidious is so skilled that they didn't stand a chance, but they failed miserably at that because they didn't even try to defend themselves. They just stood there and did nothing like idiots. Then you have the actual Windu vs Palpatine fight, which was almost as slow as the OT duels. Even as a kid watching that in theaters I was baffled. It was just awful, awful choreography.
I don't care how many props or locations were used in the Anakin vs Obi-Wan fight, it was fantastic. It accurately demonstrated the fighting skill of a force user. As did Obi vs Maul and Anakin vs Dooku in RotS.
Fisto, Tiin and Kolar just standing there doing nothing while Palpatine stabs and slashes them is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen in the Star Wars franchise. It's obvious they were trying to show that Sidious is so skilled that they didn't stand a chance, but they failed miserably at that because they didn't even try to defend themselves. They just stood there and did nothing like idiots. Then you have the actual Windu vs Palpatine fight, which was almost as slow as the OT duels. Even as a kid watching that in theaters I was baffled. It was just awful, awful choreography.
I don't care how many props or locations were used in the Anakin vs Obi-Wan fight, it was fantastic. It accurately demonstrated the fighting skill of a force user. As did Obi vs Maul and Anakin vs Dooku in RotS.
KerotanFrog
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When you compare his fight against Windu and his fight against Yoda, it's blatantly obvious that Sidious wasn't going in full power against Windu. He needed Anakin to see Windu try to kill him without trial, and in doing so, going against the main tenet of the Jedi Code (There is not ignorance, there is knowledge). He used this hypocrisy to cast doubt on the Jedi's beliefs and to finally turn him. (It wasn't just Padme, it was his doubting everything the Jedi stood for.) He needed to look vulnerable, and like "an unarmed prisoner." The seeds of guilt were already sown in Anakin from when he killed an unarmed Dooku. He wouldn't make that same mistake again. It was actually pretty brilliant.
In the fight against Yoda, he had already won Vader over and just went ballistic on Yoda. This is truly the best fight in the whole saga. It's fast, furious, and incorporates the force powers of the Grand Master of the Jedi and the one of the most powerful Sith to ever live.
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