Hot Toys - MMS 68 - The Dark Knight - 1/6th scale The JOKER collectible figure

[DarkArtist81]

Yeah, or you can say that a) isn't the definitive version of the character or b) say it takes a stronger and bigger bad ass to not cross the line into the selfish need to kill his enemies. I mean, when Batman has to resort to killing Ray Charles in the Cathedral cause he can't outfight a basic thug ... uhhh ... yeah, that isn't a hard ass ... that makes his actions almost as revolting as the Joker. Batman kills only if there is no way to escape a situation, and if its his life on the line and there is no other way out. It takes more fortitude to draw a moral line and not selfishly cross it at any time the going gets tough. Burton's Batman was a seperate creation. It doesn't stay true to the myth. Instead of making him a dark, intense, yet DETERMINED individual, he reduces him to a 2D character. A psycopath the same as the Joker. His Batman movies were absurd once you grow up and see them for what they are. Like Burton, he relies too much on visuals and tell NO story what so ever. No character depth, no growth or arc. Just a few pieces of eye candy. The cinematic equivelent to a one night stand. But Nolan's Batman? A well thought out story that leaves you STARVING for more.


Yet didn't really represent the character at all. He's much more complex than that.


If this doesn't show your asinine p.o.v. or idiotic analyzation of Bale and Nolan's superior Batman mythos ... IDK what would. Bale's performance and character has depths and range than Burton and Keaton's Batman couldn't touch with a 10ft pole. He goes from angry young man, to confused, to driven idealistic man who creates a legend, an urban myth ... a visceral beast that pushes the envelope with his methods and violence, only to have to be reminded to not slip into the darkness, by keeping a set of values established within him by his late great father to be someone who heals a city, thus the metaphor to his father being a doctor.


He's the best actor to ever touch the role. And probably will be for quite some time. He's the perfect storm as it pertains to the potrayl of Bruce Wayne / Batman. You don't get better than Christian Bale. He has the intensity and precense of Keaton through subtle mannerisms and his eyes, he has the physicality that Bruce Wayne requires, he had depths to his performance that couldn't be reached if you combined every actor to don the cape and cowl together. He's just the best there is ... he inhabits the character the way Reeve did Superman and the way Downey Jr. did Ironman.


Wait, Nolan's visuals were bland, how? Because it wasn't a circle jerk of Gothic fantasia ... which Gotham has never really been rooted in the comics aesthetically, it makes them bland? Huh? Is the French Connection, Taxi Driver, etc. bland looking films? No, and neither is Batman Begins. It just isn't melodramatic and corny in its visuals, with over the top tongue in cheek settings. Its real, recognizable, gritty. In other words, bad ass.


Wrong, Nolan is a GREAT director. And B89 didn't have drama. It was a cartoon. Superficial visual fluff. B89 was like popcorn, it smells better than it actually tastes. Batman Begins is like a five course dinner. It is virtually unanimously viewed as the cream of the crop for this genre of movie. And it's only to get better with The Dark Knight.


Well, Bale already torched Keaton ... Ledger might have Nicholson beat off his moments in the trailers ALONE.

The Batman movies deserved a BETTER CLASS of cinema ...

And Chris Nolan's giving it to us.

Well said man... You touched on every single thing that I love about the new films and everything I don't like about the Burton films. Batman wasn't intense or deep in the 89 film, and his killing of Joker and his goons did NOT fit into the Batman mythos at all... in fact it was a perversion of it.

He got the style right I think and several factors were there to make it a classic movie, but it did not nail the Batman mythology nor was it the definitive tale of the character like Begins was to me.

And it set the worst comic book movie trend in stone, kill off the villain. It's been followed in many films since, and it still bothers me to this day. The Hero must never kill the bad guy, it goes against their morality... it is what makes them heroes. Except for a few that go against the grain, like the Punisher...

 

[Grange Wallis]

Well said man... You touched on every single thing that I love about the new films and everything I don't like about the Burton films. Batman wasn't intense or deep in the 89 film, and his killing of Joker and his goons did NOT fit into the Batman mythos at all... in fact it was a perversion of it.

He got the style right I think and several factors were there to make it a classic movie, but it did not nail the Batman mythology nor was it the definitive tale of the character like Begins was to me.

And it set the worst comic book movie trend in stone, kill off the villain. It's been followed in many films since, and it still bothers me to this day. The Hero must never kill the bad guy, it goes against their morality... it is what makes them heroes. Except for a few that go against the grain, like the Punisher...

Yeah, I'm with you on that Josh... The only thing I'm not too happy about, is it appears there are machine guns on the Batpod... Batman hates guns! Also I hope they do touch the Ra's "death" because I hope they didn't kill him off.

 

[Sachiel]

Yeah, I'm with you on that Josh... The only thing I'm not too happy about, is it appears there are machine guns on the Batpod... Batman hates guns! Also I hope they do touch the Ra's "death" because I hope they didn't kill him off.

It's like the Tumbler. There to blow [non-living] obstructions out of the way.

 

[MaulFan]

From the looks of it so far, it's Heat with superheroes.

I love this analogy.

Maybe Batman and Joker in the interrogation room can be like Neil and Vincent in the coffee shop

 

[Just A Freak]

I love this analogy.

Maybe Batman and Joker in the interrogation room can be like Neil and Vincent in the coffee shop

Really, Heat is an influence. An urban crime drama. And the way DeNiro and Pacino, the two titans of the movie industry as we clamored to see them go head to head ... and it slowly builds till they finally meet. It's going to be similar to the two titans of the Batman mythos in The Dark Knight.

The meeting of the minds scene of Pacino and DeNiro in the coffee house, is part of the inspiration between what is said to be the best scene in TDK, when Batman is allowed enterance in GPD investigation room to interrogate the Joker.

There is other influences for The Dark Knight, though. The 1st two Dirty Harry movies, Gangs of New York .... there is a few inspirations. Hell, even B89 gets paid some homage.

About the guns on the Batpod ... there was guns on the Tumbler, and he uses them to blast off a wall. Not people. No need to worry.

 

[Just A Freak]

Sue me for not busting a nut over BEGINS being the greatest comic book movie ever made.

You blasted BEGINS in a few instances in an attempt to be subtle, and I was just letting you know you couldn't be more wrong. Critically it was by far the most successful Batman movie.

I'm suing you for being a dope in terms to how you rate Batman BEGINS. Hell, I like B89 ... nostalgia and all. But it's no Batman Begins, and it damn sure won't be The Dark Knight.

 

[Just A Freak]

I am a huge fan of 1930's and 1940's comics and cinema

BTW, this makes B89 abit more dated looking than BEGINS will.

 

[Dr.Mirakle32]

BTW, this makes B89 abit more dated looking than BEGINS will.

Not really. Combining architectural and costume aspects of both old and new give it a sense of timelessness.

And so what? I like BATMAN BEGINS, but IMHO it ain't the Jesus Christ of comic movies. I thought IRON MAN took the formula of BB amped it up and made it ten times better.

I still rank the Batman films like this:

1.Batman
2. Batman Begins
3. Batman Returns
4. Batman Forever





















5. Batman and Robin

 

[Dr.Mirakle32]

Well said man... You touched on every single thing that I love about the new films and everything I don't like about the Burton films. Batman wasn't intense or deep in the 89 film, and his killing of Joker and his goons did NOT fit into the Batman mythos at all... in fact it was a perversion of it.

The Hero must never kill the bad guy, it goes against their morality... it is what makes them heroes. Except for a few that go against the grain, like the Punisher...

Even though this exactly what Batsy did back in 1939, when he was originally created. Sure the more-enduring characterization is the lovable, blue-caped hero who draws the line, but that version didn't appear until a year after his creation.

 

[creature4000]

I always thought Batman was more Vigilante then "Hero"

 

[MaulFan]

And it set the worst comic book movie trend in stone, kill off the villain. It's been followed in many films since, and it still bothers me to this day. The Hero must never kill the bad guy, it goes against their morality... it is what makes them heroes. Except for a few that go against the grain, like the Punisher...

I actually find it more moving to watch in cases like Ra's' death in Begins. Batman didn't kill him, but he did nothing to spare him from the end set in motion by his own actions. First time I saw Begins and Batman had Ra's pinned and said I'm not going to kill you but I don't have to save you either, I was more moved by that than watching Keaton tie Nicholson to a statue and make him fall to his doom. That's my favorite part of Nolan Batmans, they're moving as well as entertaining. The Burton films are fun to watch but don't touch up emotion, but Burton's expertise is in the visual.

 

[Just A Freak]

Without a doubt, bro. And that isn't to say B89 isn't entertaining, it is but Begins is just a vastly superior in virtualy everyway. I could write an essay on the differences but I'll spare you, haha. Chris Nolan's Batman is a thinking man's Batman film.

But the real reason I joined this website was cause of this Hot Toys TDK Joker figure. Thing made me pitch a tent in my pants its so good looking. Totally captures Ledger's creepy Joker. BTW, when does it come out? Where can I get it and how much? Thanks

 

[pjam]

Without a doubt, bro. And that isn't to say B89 isn't entertaining, it is but Begins is just a vastly superior in virtualy everyway. I could write an essay on the differences but I'll spare you, haha. Chris Nolan's Batman is a thinking man's Batman film.

But the real reason I joined this website was cause of this Hot Toys TDK Joker figure. Thing made me pitch a tent in my pants its so good looking. Totally captures Ledger's creepy Joker. BTW, when does it come out? Where can I get it and how much? Thanks

Toys2 is out of stock. Try BBTS.

Release Date Schedded for July.

 

[Dr.Mirakle32]

I can see why people love BEGINS, but it really is far from perfect. I saw it in theaters at a time when I was indifferent to Batman. It thought it was good, but it wasn't THE GODFATHER starring Bruce Wayne, and I didn't need to change my shorts. Multiple viewings of it made me really appreciate '89 more, and rewatching B89 got me back into Batman full-swing. I think Nolan is perfect for bringing the series out of the Shumacher slump, and BB was the perfect film to set the franchise back on track, leading up to what should be the best Batman film. But at the end of the day, while BEGINS has the more complex script, I still feel Burton's original film is filled with subtle substance, that obviosuly gets forgotten and overshadowed by the OTT visuals and style.

Anyway, I've already got my HT Joker and Batman pre-ordered, so you don't need to tell me what kind of fan I am.

 

[Just A Freak]

Even though this exactly what Batsy did back in 1939, when he was originally created. Sure the more-enduring characterization is the lovable, blue-caped hero who draws the line, but that version didn't appear until a year after his creation.

ummm Frank Millers Batman is the most bad ass of any version of Batman and he doesn't kill. You like the 1st conception of Batman so much would you have rather Batman carry around and weild a pistol? The Kane character was refined and made better. Just because Batman not killing doesn't mean he's a lovable boy scout. Miller's Batman certainly isn't a boy scout and neither was Nolan's Batman. Bats was a dark ruthless vigilante who happened to have moral boundaries. He had all the mystique of Kane's Batman. But B89 he's made a public deputy at the end of the movie. In Begins and TDK, Batman is considered a vigilante criminal by the state and much of the police force. He also still retains his urban myth status. Your Batman in B89 writes a ridiculously corny letter to the public acknowledging his existence.

 

[EVILFACE]

And it set the worst comic book movie trend in stone, kill off the villain. It's been followed in many films since, and it still bothers me to this day. The Hero must never kill the bad guy, it goes against their morality... it is what makes them heroes. Except for a few that go against the grain, like the Punisher...

Technically he didn't kill The Joker, but tried to keep him from escaping, and what he did eventually lead to his death.

BUT Batman did kill all those goons at the Axis factory and he killed in Returns.

In Begins, he doesn't kill anyone. He chose not to save Ducard, but we don't know 100% that he is dead. His actions could have led to the deaths of several officers in the tumbler chase though.

 

[EVILFACE]

Without a doubt, bro. And that isn't to say B89 isn't entertaining, it is but Begins is just a vastly superior in virtualy everyway. I could write an essay on the differences but I'll spare you, haha. Chris Nolan's Batman is a thinking man's Batman film.

As I say. They each got right what the other got wrong, but Begins got more right making a Batman movie that was about Batman.

But the real reason I joined this website was cause of this Hot Toys TDK Joker figure. Thing made me pitch a tent in my pants its so good looking. Totally captures Ledger's creepy Joker. BTW, when does it come out? Where can I get it and how much? Thanks

The figure will rock.

 

[profbobo]

ummm Frank Millers Batman is the most bad ass of any version of Batman and he doesn't kill. You like the 1st conception of Batman so much would you have rather Batman carry around and weild a pistol? The Kane character was refined and made better. Just because Batman not killing doesn't mean he's a lovable boy scout. Miller's Batman certainly isn't a boy scout and neither was Nolan's Batman. Bats was a dark ruthless vigilante who happened to have moral boundaries. He had all the mystique of Kane's Batman. But B89 he's made a public deputy at the end of the movie. In Begins and TDK, Batman is considered a vigilante criminal by the state and much of the police force. He also still retains his urban myth status. Your Batman in B89 writes a ridiculously corny letter to the public acknowledging his existence.

I don't know about you guys but I always cringe when I read stuff like this. To me, Miller was writing Batman as an absolutely insane man with a twisted sense of morality. While his Batman is undoubtedly badass, I personally don't feel like he's necessarily a hero. Even in DKR I don't think you're really supposed to cheer for him. Look at it objectively - it's an old man with lots of money who throws a girl into life-threatening situations and rallies an army of Neo Nazi youth behind his cause. Kinda crazy.

 

[DarkArtist81]

Even though this exactly what Batsy did back in 1939, when he was originally created. Sure the more-enduring characterization is the lovable, blue-caped hero who draws the line, but that version didn't appear until a year after his creation.

I understand that fact, but it wasn't for very long. Down the line the character was given moral code that made more sense for his motivation to rid the city of crime without becoming exactly like them. He can cross the line to get it done, but not all the way... Just how I feel about it.

Batman shouldn't be a goody goody by any means, he should be a twisted bastard. But not to the point of killing anyone. He uses force, near lethal at times.... but not deadly. He's smart enough to find ways to keep that from happening.

 

[MaulFan]

Without a doubt, bro. And that isn't to say B89 isn't entertaining, it is but Begins is just a vastly superior in virtualy everyway. I could write an essay on the differences but I'll spare you, haha. Chris Nolan's Batman is a thinking man's Batman film.

It almost makes me wish I could see Batman 1989 for the first time as an adult and see what I think of. Having grown up on it, it makes me feel like a kid again, that's probably the biggest joy I get from it, I like the character and the movie overall, but it's impact on me is that it touches my inner child and brings back all that childhood fun, but if I saw it for the first time as an adult, I think I'd find it lackluster. Begins speaks more to adult sensibillities which is probably why there is a mixed fandom, some people want the more childhood adventure type comic movies and some want them to touch upon their adult side as much as other film types.