Agree. People focus to much on the parallels (and there are many) and forget the tangents.
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Agree. People focus to much on the parallels (and there are many) and forget the tangents.
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I don't disagree with these sentiments, its just a fun thought experiment for the most part, though it would be the twist of all twists given the foundation with which we were presented in TFA....
That said, I think it would be a GREAT idea for the story if we witness a moment when Rey is truly "at risk" for falling and we see Luke's incredible personal anguish at that moment when he believes it could happen.
That said, I think it would be a GREAT idea for the story if we witness a moment when Rey is truly "at risk" for falling and we see Luke's incredible personal anguish at that moment when he believes it could happen.
That's how I see it as a vision or a dream of Rey turning not necessarilary a look into the future like how Anakin saw Padme's death but maybe Kylo has a dream of Rey being a Sith or Rey while training has a moment of turning because she can't control the force just yet.
Not sure they will put this in Ep VIII or the last movie in this new trilogy.
Like someone mentioned the young fan base on Rey as a role model is too great to make her the villain.
After all let's not forget Obi-wan never turned in the PT and Luke didn't either, at least in the OT. In the EU, Luke went dark many times
Mad Old Lu
Super Freak
I think Ren’s redemption is inevitable. The SW movies are all about redemption. Even if he continues to be the bad guy up until the last of the new trilogy, he’ll have that final moment just like Vader. It’s not like he’s going to become a hero midway and we’re supposed to forgive all his killings. It just means that he will be able to show remorse at the very end and try to do something to make up for what he has done. Just the fact that he continues to struggle between the light and the dark suggests that there is still something redeemable in him. I can see them showing Rey having a bit of struggle too. I think it would make for a good character arc. Snoke is the one who will remain evil all the way through. Sure it seems like a rehash, but really there is nothing as cathartic as a good old fashioned redemption and is the ultimate character arc in any story.
So just prepare to be disappointed if you think Ren will remain evil til the end!
So just prepare to be disappointed if you think Ren will remain evil til the end!
I disagree with the people who somehow feel it would be a cop-out to make him turn good in the end.
It might happen, or it might not, but we will all have to wait and see.
The greatest heroes are those that stumbled on the road to greatness.
I personally can't imagine a way he could be redeemed, but then again i am not a screenwriter.
It could be done.
Or they might go the other way.
I think it's a worse way to go to have Rey kill Ren. That brings her down to his level.
If Ren turns in the last furlong, committing a selfless act, his hands can be metaphorically cleaned.
It might happen, or it might not, but we will all have to wait and see.
The greatest heroes are those that stumbled on the road to greatness.
I personally can't imagine a way he could be redeemed, but then again i am not a screenwriter.
It could be done.
Or they might go the other way.
I think it's a worse way to go to have Rey kill Ren. That brings her down to his level.
If Ren turns in the last furlong, committing a selfless act, his hands can be metaphorically cleaned.
I think Ren will die in his redemption, possibly saving Rey
That's as good a way as any other.
A bad guy who remains a bad guy till the end is just mindless(And is always the *true villain*).
Ren was born from good people, and turned bad. We saw how conflicted he was. That might go away for a bit, but it must come back or he would become a two dimensional character.
I just remembered Han might be dead, but someone else is alive. Maybe in the final climatic scene in the final episode Snoke gives Ren a choice " kill your mother or kill the Jedi Rey or Luke" and Han comes into a ghostly form and says " You have to do what's right son.. We will always love you " and Ren attacks Snoke instead and they both die.
I'm sure every SW fan will ship this outcome
As far as i know, only Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin ever came back as a force ghost. But, we only ever saw Force Sensitive people speak to them(Or hear them), so you never know. Perhaps the vital piece of the puzzle is a strong connection to the force.
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Ren murdered his iconic hero father in cold blood. No amount of screenwriting will undo that.
Even Vader remained a genocidal murderer who happened to kill his evil master. Remorse or one act doesn't undo murder.
Rey looked both angry and aggressive, and ready to kill Kylo at the end. I think it's a given that she'll struggle with the Dark Side.
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Even Vader remained a genocidal murderer who happened to kill his evil master. Remorse or one act doesn't undo murder.
Rey looked both angry and aggressive, and ready to kill Kylo at the end. I think it's a given that she'll struggle with the Dark Side.
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Mad Old Lu
Super Freak
Okay then. I guess if you don’t consider Vader redeemed at the end of ROTJ, you’ll be fine.
As crazy as it sounds, I think Han forgave Kylo in a way with the touching of the Ren's face before he fell to death. He might have been saying he failed as a father, so he understood how Ren was conflicted. Might have been shocked that his son killed him, but he understood.
I didn't see it that way. I saw it more as Han's sacrifice than Ben's murdering him in cold blood. As semantics, but fun to see how it will turn out.
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They killed Han Solo. I'll never be fine again.
Kidding/not kidding.
(OW right in the CHILDHOOD!). [emoji53]
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Mad Old Lu
Super Freak
Ah! So now we get to the root of your anger!
Well, if you put it that way, then I'm with you!
SilverStar17
Super Freak
Well, let's face it. If Rey consistently stayed good and Ren consistently stayed bad throughout the whole trilogy without any changes nor turbulence at all, that would be pretty tedious. How would Episode IX end? However, if they do redeem Kylo in Episode IX, that would also be an obvious rehash of the OT.
I honestly have no idea what route they're going to go, and I won't even venture to speculate. Like people have said, we essentially saw Ren's moment of redemption in TFA and he chose the Dark Side. I really don't foresee him getting a "do over" later in the trilogy. With Rey, based on her flashbacks, her past certainly does possess Dark Side seducing capabilities, but I also don't really see them doing a total 180 where Ren suddenly becomes the protagonist and Rey becomes the antagonist.
However, I do think there will be a dramatic moment between Leia and Kylo at some point, being that it was her that more really wanted him back and pleaded with Han to try and turn him (Kylo) back.
I would agree with this also. That, or that he still loves him because of regardless of what he just did, the fact remains that he is still his son.
I honestly have no idea what route they're going to go, and I won't even venture to speculate. Like people have said, we essentially saw Ren's moment of redemption in TFA and he chose the Dark Side. I really don't foresee him getting a "do over" later in the trilogy. With Rey, based on her flashbacks, her past certainly does possess Dark Side seducing capabilities, but I also don't really see them doing a total 180 where Ren suddenly becomes the protagonist and Rey becomes the antagonist.
However, I do think there will be a dramatic moment between Leia and Kylo at some point, being that it was her that more really wanted him back and pleaded with Han to try and turn him (Kylo) back.
I would agree with this also. That, or that he still loves him because of regardless of what he just did, the fact remains that he is still his son.
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Great discussion everyone...
There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that Kylo will be redeemed. There's also no doubt in my mind that it will happen in the final act of Episode IX, and that it will be a final act of heroism that is the vehicle. This is Han and Leia's son. The story will not orphan him to the Dark side.
In many ways I believe The opening words of the new Trilogy spoken by Lor San Tekka were intended to set the tone for the entire new venture. First, "This will begin to make things right". Meaning this saga is to be at its core a story of redemption. And then to Ben, "The First Order rose from the Dark Side, you did not." And later, "you cannot deny the truth that is your family". I believe all of these refer to the idea that despite what Kylo's personal desires might be (or what he thinks they are at this moment), he cannot escape his destiny, or perhaps the Will of the Force.
However, Kylo's crimes are monstrous and unforgivable - "Kill them all" on Jakku comes to mind, and being part of Star Killer like his Grandfather was on Death Star, the Knights of Ren massacre, and who knows what else. There can be no happily ever after with Kylo walking off into the sunset with his new green lightsaber. No, he will see his destiny before him, call his fathers name once more, and give himself over to sacrifice to save Rey, and perhaps his mother, and others in a final act that fulfills his destiny.
I'm sure there will be plenty of twists and turns along the way, if we know JJ as well as we think, but I honestly don't see this going down any other way....
There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that Kylo will be redeemed. There's also no doubt in my mind that it will happen in the final act of Episode IX, and that it will be a final act of heroism that is the vehicle. This is Han and Leia's son. The story will not orphan him to the Dark side.
In many ways I believe The opening words of the new Trilogy spoken by Lor San Tekka were intended to set the tone for the entire new venture. First, "This will begin to make things right". Meaning this saga is to be at its core a story of redemption. And then to Ben, "The First Order rose from the Dark Side, you did not." And later, "you cannot deny the truth that is your family". I believe all of these refer to the idea that despite what Kylo's personal desires might be (or what he thinks they are at this moment), he cannot escape his destiny, or perhaps the Will of the Force.
However, Kylo's crimes are monstrous and unforgivable - "Kill them all" on Jakku comes to mind, and being part of Star Killer like his Grandfather was on Death Star, the Knights of Ren massacre, and who knows what else. There can be no happily ever after with Kylo walking off into the sunset with his new green lightsaber. No, he will see his destiny before him, call his fathers name once more, and give himself over to sacrifice to save Rey, and perhaps his mother, and others in a final act that fulfills his destiny.
I'm sure there will be plenty of twists and turns along the way, if we know JJ as well as we think, but I honestly don't see this going down any other way....
SilverStar17
Super Freak
Personally, I think it would be more fitting for Kylo to sacrifice himself for a group of several people, one that includes his mother, as opposed to sacrificing himself for Rey alone.
While he succumbed to the Dark Side and opted to kill one of his parents in TFA, he has the chance to save the other in the final act of Episode IX, along with an entire group (a planet for instance) which to me would kind of make up for, "Kill them all." Basically like a Spock-esque death from TWoK.
I also think it would be fitting if Kylo never encounters Leia face to face to do this act, but she feels through The Force that she and the rest of the group she is with was saved because of Kylo's actions, thus realizing that he came back to the light; similar to the way she felt through The Force that Han had just been killed.
It would make it almost bittersweet for her. Sad that her son is now also dead, but happy that he found peace and redeemed himself.
While he succumbed to the Dark Side and opted to kill one of his parents in TFA, he has the chance to save the other in the final act of Episode IX, along with an entire group (a planet for instance) which to me would kind of make up for, "Kill them all." Basically like a Spock-esque death from TWoK.
I also think it would be fitting if Kylo never encounters Leia face to face to do this act, but she feels through The Force that she and the rest of the group she is with was saved because of Kylo's actions, thus realizing that he came back to the light; similar to the way she felt through The Force that Han had just been killed.
It would make it almost bittersweet for her. Sad that her son is now also dead, but happy that he found peace and redeemed himself.
I would like to see something like this with Kylo and Snoke to end it
Or
Snoke's death
Rey and Kylo's final exchange
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Kylo is going to be your hero...
Not gonna lie- I totally love this concept. There's very little chance of it happening, but if it does... that'd be a nice looking figure.
Back to the regularly scheduled movie conversation... I'm really hoping we get something different with Rey's and Kylo Ren's arcs in this new trilogy. I don't want to see Rey repeat Luke's journey (even if she dips closer to the Dark Side) or Kylo Ren repeat Anakin's. I'm not a screen writer, and I know temptation and redemption are classic character arcs (especially in Star Wars), but there has to be a different and more interesting arc that these characters could undertake.
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