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Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

The idea that JJ Abrams had plans that were changed by Johnson is entirely a fan invention. There's never been any evidence to that effect.

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Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

The idea that JJ Abrams had plans that were changed by Johnson is entirely a fan invention. There's never been any evidence to that effect.

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Only what Mark Hamill and Simon Pegg have said.

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Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

The idea that JJ Abrams had plans that were changed by Johnson is entirely a fan invention. There's never been any evidence to that effect.

It depends on what you meant by "plans that were changed." For instance it's well known that Abrams originally had BB-8 accompanying Rey to Ach-To but changed it to R2 at Johnson's request.
 
Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

No. You are not discussing this where it’s appropriate. This thread is for the upcoming action figure. Your discussion belongs in the movie section. I didn’t subscribe to this thread to discuss the movie, but a couple of us allowed you and Talibane to bait us into the discussion. Enough name calling. Politely take your discussion to the appropriate thread.

yeah, me and tailbane are the only ones discussing. more like we are the minority of posters. everyone BUT you is discussing the movie. maybe you need to politely stop telling us what we can discuss. plus, there is no figure to discuss. nothing is been released except a teaser. once there is more to go on, the conversation will surely become more figure centric. you need to stop playing traffic cop please and thank you.
 
Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

The idea that JJ Abrams had plans that were changed by Johnson is entirely a fan invention. There's never been any evidence to that effect.

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I think that there's truth to both sides, but that neither of them are as extreme as people seem to think.

This is a great thread on what has actually been stated about all that stuff by JJ, Rian, the cast, etc: https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsCa...e_jj_abrams_and_rian_johnson_writing_process/

To me what it sounds like is that JJ and co made a general outline about where the story would go, with very very broad strokes. As in "Rey ends up here" "Kylo ends up here" and so on.

It also seems like those broad strokes are things he and Rian talked about (mentioned in that thread), and they came to an agreement on where they saw those parts going.

The clearest one is Rey being a nobody (not related to Luke, etc). If we look back, JJ has basically been saying this all along. Even before the teasers for TFA came out he talked about the draw of the whole thing to him was a nobody character hearing stories of Luke Skywalker and all that jazz. All of the relationship stuff is kind of telegraphed in TFA if you want to look at it that way, but it can also not be. That's kind of just the nature of JJ's entries to films though that are a first of a series, he does mystery box things pretty well. He just doesn't really answer them. But in terms of Rey, it looks like he never actually planned for her to be Luke's kid.

Regarding Luke, I don't think his character would have been drastically different if VIII were written by JJ. People seem to forget that JJ is the one that decided to make Luke go into self exile, be depressed, and feel like a failure and everything. Well, George came up with the concept and JJ executed it. Either way, JJ did it in the first one, not Rian. So, I'm not sure why people get the idea that if JJ did TLJ then Luke would suddenly just go "oh hey daughter looks like it's time to go kick jedi ***", because that would be inconsistent with the Luke JJ set up in TFA.

Would the movie have been different? Totally. Would it have been much better or much worse? Who knows. But I think that whatever it turned out to be, no matter who did TLJ, many of the character points were going to be the same. Maybe Luke would've died in IX instead of VIII, but I think it's naive to think he'd just be a happy go lucky jedi master in VIII suddenly. It wouldn't have made sense. If anything, I imagine JJ would've had Luke's story be very similar but just had him live at the end or something.

Anyway, my thoughts are meaningless and a single opinion - but if you're interested in learning more about that whole deal you could give that thread I linked a read. I found it pretty interesting and there were a few quotes I had not read before, which you can use to form your own opinion.

TL;DR: Not as black or white as some people think. I think there was a general consensus for certain character beats and directions that are present in TLJ that were talked about between RJ and JJ. I don't think JJ had tons of details for VIII and IX planned out, and I do not think RJ had 100% creative freedom in TLJ like LFL mentions. There's certainly a plan for the major beats in the ST, as evident in the TLJ/TFA art books and the concepts George came up with in 2012, just not so much for the blanks that need to be filled in.

Whatever it was, I enjoyed Luke in TLJ and can't wait to see the full reveal of this figure. I'm hoping the sculpt is good. Excited to see how JJ decides to use him in IX.
 
Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

Thanks for linking to that thread, neb. It's an informative read.
 
Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

I believe Mark Hamill has stated that originally JJ had Luke levitating rocks on Ach-to when Rey finds him. Rian asked it to be changed. That alone implies a big difference between the mindset of Luke from TFA and Abrams idea to Rian's - Luke not closing himself off to the Force. Luke went in to an "exile" of type, but JJ's idea (GL's too) could've had him searching for answers for his perceived failure's instead of giving up to just die. There are a lot of ways Luke going to Ach-to could've played out. There are always multiple choices and angles to play other than what is chosen.

Neb - I do agree with you on Rey. I never believed after seeing TFA that she was going to end up related to the Skywalkers/Solos.

I'm someone who loved the new ST characters and was 100% on board after TFA and tried to be on board/was semi on board after TLJ, but IMHO, it's undeniable that the choices and direction they made for the OT trio in order to soft reboot the saga has hurt the reception of this ST with long time fans.

It doesn't mean I think Rey needed to be a Skywalker or Luke needed to be all powerful, etc....but I think there were more respectful and positive ways they could've transitioned from Luke, Han and Leia to Rey, Finn, Poe, etc..... The one OT character must die per movie, the stripping of their accomplishments to hand it over to the new characters (which never goes well with long term fans)...being honest, I think they should've thought longer about how to handle the OT characters.

Bringing this back to Crait Luke, I see this one as being one of their most successful ST releases because fans of the ST, of TLJ, and many non fans will be interested in it, since one can always imagine this version as an EU Luke. I know a few people who want older Han, Leia and Luke, just to have older versions of the characters for their collections, even if they're not fans of the ST.
 
Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

These are the questions that still dog the sequence:

1. Does Leia know that Luke isn't really there, ie is just a projection (people seem to have taken Leia's "touch" reaction to mean totally different things)?
2. Luke is in essence killing himself - presumably for a reason beyond a morale boost or inspiration - so does he project to Crait with the "distract/escape" plan in mind?
3. If this is Luke's plan, why doesn't he tell anyone (even offscreen, and having it be an audience surprise later) including, importantly, Leia or Rey?
4. Does Luke's plan somehow involve (or even rely on) Rey, who he knows is heading there to help anyway and is outside?
5. If it does involve Rey, why does she not seem to be acting in accordance with any plan?
6. If Leia knows what Luke's plan is, why does she simply stand and watch him walking out like everyone else, and not arrange the escape as precious minutes pass?
6. If the "distract/escape" idea was the plan all along, then why does the movie rely on Poe to randomly realize that's the plan much later?

The point is, Luke Skywalker DIES because of this decision and this moment, so it really is worth discussing.

I know that many here are tired of this subject, and especially it taking over this thread. But I'm replying to your list of questions, TaliBane, out of respect (and because I enjoy this stuff). I appreciate how clear it is that Star Wars has meant a lot to you, and how hard it is for you to reconcile much of what happened in TLJ. Your knowledge about this franchise has been really impressive to me in my time around this forum. So, if you're serious about wanting to know how someone who enjoyed the Crait scene (and most of TLJ in general) would answer your questions, I'm going to give you my serious response. If you don't actually care, then you can just ignore this (obviously). Here goes:

1. Does Leia know that Luke isn't really there, ie is just a projection (people seem to have taken Leia's "touch" reaction to mean totally different things)?

Yes. As I replied to you before, the TLJ novel describes the moment Luke makes "contact" with Leia to hand her the dice as when Leia was let in on a secret the two siblings now shared alone. If you want to ignore the novelization, that's fine; but it was based on actual movie scripts and is "canon" right?

2. Luke is in essence killing himself - presumably for a reason beyond a morale boost or inspiration - so does he project to Crait with the "distract/escape" plan in mind?

We don't know exactly what's in Luke's mind, but I think we can probably agree that he initially projected himself to Crait in order to help in whatever way he could. All the while, I think it's safe to assume that he understood that being a projection was going to limit him to distraction being his most effective (perhaps only) tactic.

3. If this is Luke's plan, why doesn't he tell anyone (even offscreen, and having it be an audience surprise later) including, importantly, Leia or Rey?

He wouldn't need to tell Rey anything as long as he was simply aware of her intentions to go rescue Leia and crew. And it was definitely Rey's intent to rescue her friends - clearly demonstrated on screen! Having a sense for where Rey was, how she was tracking the Resistance, and how long it would take her is all Luke needed. Communicating the details of his appearance there wouldn't have altered Rey's rescue mission; she was already going as fast as she could to reach everyone in order to help get them out of there.

As for evidence of a connection: at the end, Rey feels Luke dying (as does Leia). But Leia would feel it because of their sibling connection. So why would Rey feel it so strongly if Luke hadn't been bonded to her somehow during the Crait sequence? The strong awareness of his death could be the residual/lingering result of his connection to her. Whether he communicated his plan with her directly or not is fairly irrelevant so long as he connected (in some way) in order to know her intentions.

Maybe he didn't even need Leia to understand his plan in full. Letting her know that he was a projection could have been to simply let her know that he was in no danger. So, she wouldn't need to back him up or let anyone go try to help him. As long as Luke was aware of Rey's proximity, and her intentions upon arriving, he would be perfectly able to stall Kylo long enough without Leia doing anything.

4. Does Luke's plan somehow involve (or even rely on) Rey, who he knows is heading there to help anyway and is outside?

Luke is very obviously aware of what's going on with Rey and the Resistance. After all, he only ends his "duel" with Kylo when he realizes that Rey has gotten to Leia's group. His plan relied on, or was connected to, Rey more than anything.

5. If it does involve Rey, why does she not seem to be acting in accordance with any plan?

Rey clearly intends to help everyone escape. Whether she knows that she's working in tandem with Luke doesn't even really matter. She was using her beacon to track the Resistance in order to reach them and bring them to safety. She first had to clear the TIEs away from the speeders. Then she returns (again, with beacon guiding her) with the intent of freeing them from the cave. How is that in conflict with Luke's plan to buy time for their escape from the cave?

6. If Leia knows what Luke's plan is, why does she simply stand and watch him walking out like everyone else, and not arrange the escape as precious minutes pass?

Maybe Leia doesn't know. See my answer to #3. And if Leia did know, then perhaps her failure to act was due to distraction by maternal conflict? Or perhaps awe at what Luke is managing to do? Or a simple mental lapse? Or maybe she didn't fully understand until Poe said it out loud. It didn't change the outcome either way, so again, does it even matter? She might not have needed to know. It's not crucial to the outcome.

6. If the "distract/escape" idea was the plan all along, then why does the movie rely on Poe to randomly realize that's the plan much later?

It doesn't rely on Poe; because Rey was heading to them anyway. She would have still arrived at the rocks (because she was using her beacon, and saw the crystal foxes leaving the cave through them), would have still lifted those rocks, but she would have had to go get everyone herself (continuing to use the beacon) had they not been already led to the rocks by Poe.

All Poe's realization did was make the escape quicker than it would have been. It was meant more to show his evolution; that was one of the ongoing subplots. But Rey was going to help them out no matter what; that's the key! All Luke needed to do was buy her time to get to them. You're focused so much on the Poe versus Leia thing that I think you're forgetting that Rey was going to rescue the remaining Resistance all along. She was already heading there as Poe was following the crystal fox thing. All Poe did was make the escape happen faster (because, yes, Rey would have taken longer).

Whether Luke just counted on someone (likely Leia) recognizing his strategy, or was aware of Rey's intent by connecting with her, he was effective either way. We saw what we needed to on screen. We saw Luke do as much (or more) than likely any other Jedi in history would have been able to do against the odds of an entire line of AT-ATs, troopers, Kylo, and the rest of the First Order resources against a few dozen outmatched people needing to escape. He did more from across the galaxy than he could have in person. He died a hero, and a legend restored. Why isn't that good enough?
 
Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

there is one thing that would salvage everything that we will never see.

if they could do a movie that covers all the events of luke starting the jedi temple and the training of kylo and the evolution of the knights of ren and how it went bad...maybe we could understand why this is lukes direction. but we will never see that. EVER. and that sucks. it could be a great story that could explain a whole lot and if done right could sway the haters to be on board with this RJ version of luke. unfortunately disney cares not a hair about the OT characters. KK is not interested in old farts. she want new blood. SW isn't a passion anymore...its a bank teller. we need to accept that i suppose. lucas, as odd of decisions as he made, at least had passion. im not seeing anything of the sort out of KK and RJ. RJ seems like a millennial d-bag.
 
Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

they could do a movie that covers all the events of luke starting the jedi temple and the training of kylo and the evolution of the knights of ren and how it went bad...but we will never see that. EVER.

Well we did see a movie about how things went bad for Anakin and the Jedi so count your blessings, lol.
 
Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

I believe Mark Hamill has stated that originally JJ had Luke levitating rocks on Ach-to when Rey finds him. Rian asked it to be changed. That alone implies a big difference between the mindset of Luke from TFA and Abrams idea to Rian's - Luke not closing himself off to the Force. Luke went in to an "exile" of type, but JJ's idea (GL's too) could've had him searching for answers for his perceived failure's instead of giving up to just die. There are a lot of ways Luke going to Ach-to could've played out. There are always multiple choices and angles to play other than what is chosen.

The one thing I guess should be noted is that the concept art and Phil's comments about George in 2012 and JJ at the beginning all mention Luke being in exile and ignoring or not being connected to the force in some way. Whether it meant that he was actually "cut off" like he was in TLJ, or just that he was trying to exile himself from it is unclear. But there is art from pre-TFA of Luke looking all depressed on the island and force ghosts trying to reach him. So, I think there was still some kind of consensus with that but perhaps the way they approached it was different. I've also heard that the floating rocks was supposed to be about how the island was strong with the force, but I think Mark took it differently. That will probably always be unclear, though. But even then, if JJ did initially plan that - he could have had that in his movie. It seems like he and RJ came to an agreement about where Luke would go, or at least the direction, and they decided not to put that in.

So either way, I don't think he was ever going to just decide to come back and be a Jedi Master hero right away in ep 8. I'm not saying he could not have been different, but I think he was going to be down in the dump one way or another. Luke needed a reason to feel bad enough to exile himself.
 
Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

The X-Wing is a wreck when we see it. The door on his hut is made from one of the foils so he’s dismantled it for parts for at least that, and who knows what else. We’re shown the X-Wing in that state for the exact reason of us knowing that he has no way off the island if left with what he has.

And yes, it is a bit pathetic. But a key theme in this movie is failure and how one deals with it. That’s why he’s there in the first place, he’s kind of wallowing in his failure. But that’s his final lesson from Yoda. Luke finally learns to accept his failure and its lessons and insert himself back into the fight, rather than continuing to hide.

I think you’re looking at his “plan” from the wrong perspective. We as an audience always know the good guys will probably come out on top. But there’s nothing that says Luke goes into this thinking anything is guaranteed. Sure, it might not work. But if he fails, he tried, he was there. And probably made more of a difference in spectral form than if he were there in person.

Luke explicitly says “I will not be the Last Jedi”, and we’re told by Yoda that Rey has everything she needs. Luke was taught in part by “ghost” Obi-Wan, and Rey can be guided by Yoda or Luke or Ben or Qui-Gon or Anakin or whoever. And she has the Jedi texts. So she’s not left to her own devices.

Again, I think the Leia thing is obvious on repeated viewing, and another one of the things that we see is “off” on the first. There’s a moment between them where I think you can clearly see some understanding between the two and she knows what’s going on. These two have shared a link via the Force that we’ve seen demonstrated since Empire, so it’s not like it’s out of nowhere that she would know what’s going on with him. Now as far as Leia’s involvement with his “plan”, I believe Luke made his entrance the way he did to provoke everyone to realize there IS a way out of the mine. Did they wait longer than we would logically think they should to start looking? Perhaps. But again I think he relies on everyone’s inherent strengths to figure out the situation while he buys time by playing every bit of his appearance, right down to how he himself appears, on the First Order’s greatest weakness, that being Kylo’s emotions and carelessness when it comes to his hatred for Luke.

I still maintain the key plot points are there on first viewing. They require some reflection after the events unfold, but they’re there.

:duff Interesting thoughts - I like it. Will be keeping this in mind when I watch this again weekend after next.

My buddy who adored literally everything SW-related but really didn't like TLJ (despite seeing it 3 times:dunno) caved and bought the Bluray so we're going to watch it on his massive UHD TV.:lol

Though I don't necessarily agree about the x-wing - in looking at screencaps, the door part is not from the same x-wing (the door appears to be from the "red 5" x-wing and the one under the water is not the red 5 one. Also, there is nothing in the shot that suggests a "wreck." From what is visible, the ship actually looks undamaged and sitting on its landing gear with wings neatly folded in landing mode and nothing visibly missing (though its partly obscured by the rippling water so you can't be 100% sure.)

You would think if it was intended to look like a wreck, they would have made it clearly so: the fuselage would have been collapsed at an angle, cannons bent or broken, obviously missing parts/panels etc - but as I said originally, it actually looks like a perfectly fine x-wing that has been gently submerged on its landing gear on a flat bottom in shallow water.

The only conclusion you can reach given all this is it was meant to be unclear as to whether it was usable or not.
 
Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

The x-wing to me was pretty questionable. I actually thought it symbolised his deeper positive personality. Like he cut himself off from the force and was living in exile on a secret planet, but his x-wing was available...if...in an emergency. By the time that need arose, he was past needing the ship. So it ends up a kind of discarded toy, important to a young Luke as a symbol of his exciting combat expertise but less important to an aged Luke who, you know, craves neither adventure nor excitement. I didn't notice that it (or a similar ship) had been pilfered for parts.
 
Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

BTW on behalf of TLJ fans I would like to award TaliBane with some kind of special reconigtion award. He has voiced his dislike of TLJ in a way that is respectful of the franchise and respectful to those who like it. Too often these conversations devolve into name calling, and this one hasn't. A couple other posters have impressed me in this thread with their ability to articulate their voices. Conversations like this are why the internet is cool. (Someone post a cheesy gif please)
 
Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

Though I don't necessarily agree about the x-wing - in looking at screencaps, the door part is not from the same x-wing (the door appears to be from the "red 5" x-wing and the one under the water is not the red 5 one. Also, there is nothing in the shot that suggests a "wreck." From what is visible, the ship actually looks undamaged and sitting on its landing gear with wings neatly folded in landing mode and nothing visibly missing (though its partly obscured by the rippling water so you can't be 100% sure.)

You would think if it was intended to look like a wreck, they would have made it clearly so: the fuselage would have been collapsed at an angle, cannons bent or broken, obviously missing parts/panels etc - but as I said originally, it actually looks like a perfectly fine x-wing that has been gently submerged on its landing gear on a flat bottom in shallow water.

The only conclusion you can reach given all this is it was meant to be unclear as to whether it was usable or not.

I know this is going to come off as aggressive, and I don’t mean it to be so, but if you scrutinize every movie to this level, do you ever really enjoy anything? I like having to reflect and absorb, but this level of scrutiny just seems exhausting.

But ... this quote is from The Art of Star Wars book, from VFX art director Kevin Jenkins:

"Rey explores the island, trying to understand Luke's self-imposed exile from the universe. She comes across a cave, sunk at high tide within the base of the island. Here she discovers Luke's scuttled T-65 X-wing, rusted and rotting away in the water. It was set alight before it sank. It shows Luke's commitment to his exile, as he destroyed his only means of leaving the planet."


Additionally from the Star Wars visual dictionary:

"For all its raw beauty, Ahch-To's weather is unpredictable at best, and strong shelter is a necessity. Luke retreats each night to his hut, an ancient corralled structure made of stacked stones that has stood for millennia. The hut sits in a village built on the southern coast of the island, which is believed to have been the quarters of the earliest Jedi to study on Ahch-To. Door made from salvaged S-foil of Luke's T-65 X-wing."

Now ... I’ll give you it doesn’t look like he set it on fire from the very brief glimpse we get of it, and obviously the setting changed for the actual film. But I think the point is made that this thing has been there awhile with the intention that it never will go anywhere again and is shown that way to show the extent and conviction of his exile, and is shown in the very next scene after we are introduced to him again as Rey is kind of assessing the situation as a way to visually explain that he has come here with no intention of leaving or being found.
 
Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

The idea that JJ Abrams had plans that were changed by Johnson is entirely a fan invention. There's never been any evidence to that effect.

Maybe not plans but setups, that were completely disregarded by Johnson. Which might make for entertaining WTF viewing, but in retrospect also makes elements of TFA seem like a waste of time.

Still, I'm betting Abrams can resurrect enough of his intent from TFA to bring the ST to a satisfactory conclusion (even if VIII left us with no reason story-wise to see IX).
 
Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

BTW on behalf of TLJ fans I would like to award TaliBane with some kind of special reconigtion award. He has voiced his dislike of TLJ in a way that is respectful of the franchise and respectful to those who like it. Too often these conversations devolve into name calling, and this one hasn't. A couple other posters have impressed me in this thread with their ability to articulate their voices. Conversations like this are why the internet is cool. (Someone post a cheesy gif please)

:hi5:

Who needs a cheesy gif when you got Tortfeazor to tell it like it is?

I know this is going to come off as aggressive...

:lol

I know this is going to come off as aggressive and I don’t mean it to be so, but if you scrutinize every movie to this level, do you ever really enjoy anything? I like having to reflect and absorb, but this level of scrutiny just seems exhausting.

But ... this quote is from The Art of Star Wars book, from VFX art director Kevin Jenkins:

"Rey explores the island, trying to understand Luke's self-imposed exile from the universe. She comes across a cave, sunk at high tide within the base of the island. Here she discovers Luke's scuttled T-65 X-wing, rusted and rotting away in the water. It was set alight before it sank. It shows Luke's commitment to his exile, as he destroyed his only means of leaving the planet."


Additionally from the Star Wars visual dictionary:

"For all its raw beauty, Ahch-To's weather is unpredictable at best, and strong shelter is a necessity. Luke retreats each night to his hut, an ancient corralled structure made of stacked stones that has stood for millennia. The hut sits in a village built on the southern coast of the island, which is believed to have been the quarters of the earliest Jedi to study on Ahch-To. Door made from salvaged S-foil of Luke's T-65 X-wing."

Now ... I’ll give you it doesn’t look like he set it on fire from the very brief glimpse we get of it, and obviously the setting changed for the actual film. But I think the point is made that this thing has been there awhile with the intention that it never will go anywhere again and is shown that way to show the extent and conviction of his exile, and is shown in the very next scene after we are introduced to him again as Rey is kind of assessing the situation as a way to visually explain that he has come here with no intention of leaving or being found.

It's funny - fans. And this forum too. Because you will find on here - literally everywhere - discussions/arguments/debates of plot points/minutiae and tiny costume details that will go back and forth for days, weeks - months. Currently the precise green-blue-grey shade and faintest sculpt subtleties of Boba Fett's helmet is trending in the Hot Toys Fett thread.

It's what defines us fans - that level of interest or "scrutiny." And you interpret that as a question of whether they "really enjoy anything"?:slap:lol

The minute someone trots out that "get a life, bro" or "obsessives spoil it for everyone" crap - usually in the course of an in-depth back-and-forth they themselves are a part of - I eye-roll. Because what is says is you want to "win" and you aren't. It's the chat room cheap shot - "ha, look at the loony fan!"

... even though the person who's written that has been just as loony-level fan as the person they are calling out.:lol

And to your point - again, the ONLY thing that matters is what's onscreen. I looked at the shot in the film and - whatever the intention - it doesn't look wrecked. It looks submerged but perfectly intact - no visible damage, nothing missing. So based on the books, the Art Dept and FX departments failed to clearly convey "burned/rusted/scuttled/rotting spaceship."

And it's an important point because it links to a wider conversation about the reasoning behind Luke Skywalker killing himself.


I know this is going to come off as aggressive and I don’t mean it to be so, but if you scrutinize several books to this level - and then retype it all (in addition to other long, detailed posts) - then don't try to call out someone over "exhausting" "level of scrutiny" and pull the "uh-oh, SW obsessive over here!" bs stunt. It's not a good look.

We're all fairly hardcore fans on here and that's okay - we cool now?:dunno
 
Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

Maybe not plans but setups, that were completely disregarded by Johnson.

That's really just speculation on your part. Just because a character is let down by a revelation that they weren't expecting doesn't mean that the setup itself was somehow betrayed. From the fake "wizard" of Oz to Ralphie's Ovaltine message setups have deliberately gone sideways, and planned that way from the moment of inception, in films for decades and decades. I don't think it was cheap or out of bounds to suggest that a SW character was going to have the 15th surprise relation to a major character only to for once have it not play out that way. (Of course it still might, we won't know for certain until after we see Episode IX.)

Now I'm not claiming that Johnson did exactly what Abrams wanted because we simply have no way of knowing what was really in either director's head but that's the thing, we simply don't know and have only what is presented in the films to go on.

Getting back to the Luke discussion for a moment one thing that I don't really see get mentioned is that fact that his appearance on Crait (projection or not) is actually the first time he has changed the course of a military battle since 1977 and is the first time he'd even set foot on a battlefield since 1980. He might not have destroyed an entire battalion of AT-AT's in TLJ like many were hoping to see but he still rendered every last one of them completely ineffective in harming a single Resistance member who was hiding inside the fortress.
 
Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

That's really just speculation on your part. Just because a character is let down by a revelation that they weren't expecting doesn't mean that the setup itself was somehow betrayed. From the fake "wizard" of Oz to Ralphie's Ovaltine message setups have deliberately gone sideways, and planned that way from the moment of inception, in films for decades and decades. I don't think it was cheap or out of bounds to suggest that a SW character was going to have the 15th surprise relation to a major character only to for once have it not play out that way. (Of course it still might, we won't know for certain until after we see Episode IX.)

Now I'm not claiming that Johnson did exactly what Abrams wanted because we simply have no way of knowing what was really in either director's head but that's the thing, we simply don't know and have only what is presented in the films to go on.

Getting back to the Luke discussion for a moment one thing that I don't really see get mentioned is that fact that his appearance on Crait (projection or not) is actually the first time he has changed the course of a military battle since 1977 and is the first time he'd even set foot on a battlefield since 1980. He might not have destroyed an entire battalion of AT-AT's in TLJ like many were hoping to see but he still rendered every last one of them completely ineffective in harming a single Resistance member who was hiding inside the fortress.

Not going to comment on why I think Rian followed up the 'setups' from TFA perfectly because I've done that a ton and I'm sure people are annoyed of my by now lol.

BUT, I liked what you said about Luke at the end. I thought it was kind of a cool polar opposite to Vader's scene in Rogue One that shows the difference between the Jedi / Sith in a way. Vader reeks havoc, kills everyone, yet fails to get the job done. While his scene at the end is cool, it's a failure. He doesn't accomplish what he set out to do (getting the plans). Luke in TLJ is almost the opposite. He faces off the entire First Order, simultaneously saves and inspires the whole resistance (which in turn spreads the legend of Luke throughout the galaxy, inspiring others), and faces his failure (Kylo) which he's been avoiding the whole movie and few years prior. All without hurting anyone.

And I know people don't like it, but I actually thought the whole broom boy scene added a lot. If it weren't there, then we can just assume that Luke saved everyone to fight another day. With the addition of that scene, it's clear that Luke has become a legend that inspired people across the galaxy to not only join the fight, but to want to be like him. And we see a kid who is in a similar position to Luke when we first meet him in ANH look up to the stars and dream about being more all because of Luke's actions. Thought it was pretty cool. Luke went from being a nobody farm boy to being a legend across the galaxy that inspires people just like him.
 
Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

:hi5:

Who needs a cheesy gif when you got Tortfeazor to tell it like it is?



:lol



It's funny - fans. And this forum too. Because you will find on here - literally everywhere - discussions/arguments/debates of plot points/minutiae and tiny costume details that will go back and forth for days, weeks - months. Currently the precise green-blue-grey shade and faintest sculpt subtleties of Boba Fett's helmet is trending in the Hot Toys Fett thread.

It's what defines us fans - that level of interest or "scrutiny." And you interpret that as a question of whether they "really enjoy anything"?:slap:lol

The minute someone trots old that "get a life, bro" or "obsessives spoil it for everyone" crap - usually in the course of an in-depth back-and-forth they themselves are a part of - I eye-roll. Because what is says is you want to "win" and you aren't. It's the chat room cheap shot - "ha, look at the loony fan!"

... even though the person who's written that has been just as loony-level fan as the person they are calling out.:lol

And to your point - again, the ONLY thing that matters is what's onscreen. I looked at the shot in the film and - whatever the intention - it doesn't look wrecked. It looks submerged but perfectly intact - no visible damage, nothing missing. So based on the books, the Art Dept and FX departments failed to clearly convey "burned/rusted/scuttled/rotting spaceship."

And it's an important point because it links to a wider conversation about the reasoning behind Luke Skywalker killing himself.


I know this is going to come off as aggressive and I don’t mean it to be so, but if you scrutinize several books to this level - and then retype it all (in addition to other long, detailed posts) - then don't try to call out someone over "exhausting" "level of scrutiny" and pull the "uh-oh, SW obsessive over here!" bs stunt. It's not a good look.

We're all fairly hardcore fans on here and that's okay - we cool now?:dunno

Ah, my trusty old blue coat.
 
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