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Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

Honestly, whenever I watch the scene I'm too distracted by Luke's suddenly darker beard to notice any other plot holes. I think that nagged at me more than anything else during my first viewing. :D
 
Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

Honestly, whenever I watch the scene I'm too distracted by Luke's suddenly darker beard to notice any other plot holes. I think that nagged at me more than anything else during my first viewing. :D
Just for Men Luke, you think did he go and get a cut and dye from the Caretakers salon?

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Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

wow. a lot of speculation and opinions going on here regarding that scene. so maybe it isn't so cut and dry. and i will stand by what i said. i saw it once (thank god) and i thought they hugged. but its even WORSE if they didn't!!! rian johnson is a CLOWN and a disrespectful punk. you can stick up for him. who cares. this is just a movie after all, but he is still a retard in the world of cinema. dont believe me? just ask anyone who is a REAL SW fan...or ask Hamill. and its not childish! he pissed and shat on one of cinemas most beloved characters of all time. you must be a star trek fan.

I almost can't tell if you're trolling or being serious.

"It's not childish", in the same comment as you saying "he is still a retard in the world of cinema. dont believe me? just ask anyone who is a REAL SW fan".

Strange, considering there are many longtime Star Wars fans that loved or liked what he did with Luke, myself included. I didn't think everything in the movie was great or even good, it had moments that didn't need to be there for me. But I enjoyed the way Luke was done, and as did many others who are fans, believe it or not. And Rian is actually quite revered among actual filmmakers. But, I guess you disliking a direction he took a character means he's retarded and disrespectful.

But hey, if bitching like a 13 year old on xbox live and spewing hatred at real people because you didn't like what he did with a made up character in a made up story means you're a "REAL SW fan"... then I guess you are right, I'm not that.
 
Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

I almost can't tell if you're trolling or being serious.

"It's not childish", in the same comment as you saying "he is still a retard in the world of cinema. dont believe me? just ask anyone who is a REAL SW fan".

Strange, considering there are many longtime Star Wars fans that loved or liked what he did with Luke, myself included. I didn't think everything in the movie was great or even good, it had moments that didn't need to be there for me. But I enjoyed the way Luke was done, and as did many others who are fans, believe it or not. And Rian is actually quite revered among actual filmmakers. But, I guess you disliking a direction he took a character means he's retarded and disrespectful.

But hey, if bitching like a 13 year old on xbox live and spewing hatred at real people because you didn't like what he did with a made up character in a made up story means you're a "REAL SW fan"... then I guess you are right, I'm not that.

HA! i guess ill need to keep you guessing. thats precisely what i do. i go on xbox live and spew my hatred towards everyone! "you got me dead bang."

this isn't xbox live and you picked the fight with me kinda sorta...i hesitate to call this a fight really. youre just butt hurt because you stand for only positivity right? you feel the need to tell me off because i choose to express myself differently than you. "so be it boy."

rian johnson is a disrespectful punk given the way he handled the franchise. and KK is also quite culpable for allowing it. im not here to be PC. i tell it how it is. the guy made a mockery out of something he had no reason to mess with. i know LOTS of grown men that are now out of Star wars because of this mess. you can feel differently, i dont care. just as you shouldn't care how i feel. live and let live. you can also keep trying to reprimand me. i find it amusing.
 
Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

Honestly, whenever I watch the scene I'm too distracted by Luke's suddenly darker beard to notice any other plot holes. I think that nagged at me more than anything else during my first viewing. :D

Yeah I confess I found that distracting too. :lol
 
Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

If people were this skeptical and deeply interested in understanding every detail of American history; we’d be a completely different country.


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Funny. I am a major student of history and I do find it absolutely fascinating (not just American history though.) And it is indeed a way to gain a deeper understanding of - and be skeptical of - many things today.

Maybe if everyone was as skeptical of the ST as they are deeply interested in SW we'd be a completely different forum.:monkey3
 
Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

Luke's plan was to provide a distraction while the others figure it out for themselves. Your bank vault analogy is cute, but you forgot to mention the detail that whole he's distracting the guards out front, a Jedi is sneaking around back. Changes things. Wallowing in pessimism? I don't remember that, and I've seen the movie several times. True, she didn't reveal that Luke was not really present, but I assumed it was because she didn't want to crush the last of the Resistance's morale. Mention of how Luke got in, maybe an unmapped portion? Yeah, sure 3PO thought of that... Under the faulty premiss that Luke had snuck in. And Leia seemed aware of that fact. They're trying to figure out how to get out, and Poe figures it out first. She follows his lead on that. There really wasn't anything confusing about this scene, and it doesn't require any outside reading to figure out. It's all in the movie.

And the assertion that outside reading/investigation isn't required to understand the OT is laughable. How long was Like on Dagobah? How long was the Falcon in that asteroid belt? If Fett was following the Falcon, how did he AND Vader and co get to Cloud City first? None of that is explained on film.

What "Jedi sneaking around back"?

And what you're saying is muddled. You have 100% dodged the questions we are trying to clarify: when Leia talks to Luke, does she know he's not really there? Does Luke tell her (even offscreen, even by the force somehow) about his "I'm going to distract them while you guys find a way to escape" plan? If Leia knows it (either by being told or sensing it) why doesn't she lead everyone out as soon as Luke heads out?

What you're saying actually is the reverse of logical: wouldn't Leia telling the rebels that Luke isn't really there and is simply providing a distraction: (1) stop the rebels from watching this "mythic rebel/Jedi's face-off with the entire FO army" because he's not even there, so nothing to see (2) give them hope that the army holding them captive is distracted for maybe 20 minutes, making them spring into action to find a way out? "crush morale"? It would have been the exact opposite.

And none of what you mention about the OT - at all - was necessary to understand what happened onscreen. Those are things hardcore fans debate, but they aren't necessary to understand that Fett beats Han to Bespin (I'm guessing the Falcon's limping engine plays a role in that) or that Yoda does some training of Luke in the ways of the force. All of those moments/scenes were 100% understandable onscreen, and the details you mention are nice in-universe background detail, but not necessary.

And... I'm not sure anyone cares how long the Falcon was in the asteroid belt. That one doesn't really come up.:lol

But, creating our own subjective explanations for elements that are missing an explicit on-screen logical foundation is a fairly common thing. Sure, when it happens in the films that we dislike, then we don't bother to fill in the gaps ourselves; instead, those gaps just amplify our discontent. But it's not too much of a problem when it happens in films that we otherwise enjoy.

ROTJ is the best example for me personally. It's probably my sentimental favorite of the three OT movies - even though I know the first two are clearly superior films. But there are things I have to apply my personal subjective logic to because they're missing on-screen explanations.

For example, I love the Han defrosting scene; but Jabba is waiting quietly in a self-contained alcove behind a curtain. Many others in the palace were also waiting quietly behind the opposite curtain. How was this so coordinated? How did Jabba know what was going to be happening, and precisely when it was going to happen? It's a critical moment in the movie, but without any on-screen explanation for why Leia/Boushh had been found out in advance.

There are plenty of other examples of missing on-screen plot exposition in the Jabba scenes, and throughout the film. Having to apply my own personal and subjective explanation is fine with me when it comes to ROTJ. And it's fine with me because I LOVE the Jabba scenes (and the overall movie) so damn much. Similarly, in the TLJ Crait scene that we've been discussing (as far as why Leia didn't act on Luke's intentions): yes, we have to speculate - you're absolutely right. The speculation is not a problem for me because I enjoyed the rest of that scene (and the majority of TLJ) so damn much. If I hated it, then yeah, I'd object to the missing on-screen plot exposition. But, either way, it's not exactly a rare requirement for us to have to fill in missing movie logic. We probably only notice it (or object to it) more when we dislike the film.

Well, I said that at the outset - that all films you have to do this with because they are dramatic constructions, not real events. But the difference between what you are describing and the TLJ issues is that there is actually no way to understand what happens on Crait because there isn't enough information.

You can question the Jabba/curtain thing, but it's not necessary to understand what happens onscreen. That's not the same in TLJ, where fundamental questions go unanswered, so people have to make major guesses to fill in the gaps - that's far beyond the kind of "speculation" you are talking about for ROTJ.

Nobody is confused about the fact that Leia shows in disguise, Jabba figures out who she is and lays in wait, knowing that obviously she'll waste no time defrosting Han and getting out of there, but instead she's caught and captured. You can debate/question the logistics, but those beats are 100% clear to anyone. What happens on Crait is not - without you speculating MAJOR aspects.

That's if the premise is that she knows Luke is there, or what he's doing. But as I said directly after that, that's not the sense I got while watching it -- many things seem meant to be unclear. The only thing that is not unclear is that it was Poe's arc to get dropped down a couple pegs earlier in the movie only to rise at the end and become a leader.

The idea that such a massive lack of clarity was intentional is kind of funny.:lol

Honestly, whenever I watch the scene I'm too distracted by Luke's suddenly darker beard to notice any other plot holes. I think that nagged at me more than anything else during my first viewing. :D

Just for Men Luke, you think did he go and get a cut and dye from the Caretakers salon?

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Yeah I confess I found that distracting too. :lol

Ohhhh, so Luke can't be a little vain now, simply because he's a Jedi? :dunno

Apparently in 1980 Alec Guinness saw a certain TV commercial and had a bitter argument with GL about how he'd appear as a force ghost too...



And yes, even the dyed hair/beard thing is another weird choice that defies explanation without major fan "speculation", and it's compounded by Leia saying "I've changed my hair" just moments after we've had the "wtf - Luke's hair is black now?!" realization.:rotfl


You guys take this stuff way way too seriously.

And you have 3000 postings on a doll forum. Nah-nah nah-nahnah.:monkey3:lol
 
Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

What "Jedi sneaking around back"?

He’s referencing Rey. For someone who seems so focused on minutiae I thought that was pretty obvious 😂
 
Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

I'm almost sick of these threads turning into TLJ bashig threads with childish users and their childish remarks. Shame!

On a side note, I really want this figure and will go nicely with my Ren that's on pre order.

Does anyone know when the 'old' Luke is due to ship? We get some idea on when the 'projection' may be shown.
 
Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

I'm almost sick of these threads turning into TLJ bashig threads with childish users and their childish remarks. Shame!

On a side note, I really want this figure and will go nicely with my Ren that's on pre order.

Does anyone know when the 'old' Luke is due to ship? We get some idea on when the 'projection' may be shown.

Sideshow still lists him as Q4.
 
Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

He’s referencing Rey. For someone who seems so focused on minutiae I thought that was pretty obvious ��

Is Rey a Jedi knight? Sorry, maybe I got lost in the minutiae.

And... was she sneaking around the back of the base at the same time Luke was distracting out front? That's another one I missed. I thought she was with everyone else.

The way it was said - "while he's distracting the guards out front, a Jedi is sneaking around back" even inferred that Rey was in on Luke's plan and working in concert with him as it was playing out.

Is that your understanding too?

I'm almost sick of these threads turning into TLJ bashig threads with childish users and their childish remarks. Shame!

:lol Sorry, it just reads funny.

And trying to clarify something that everyone seems to have a wholly different take on - something that is indeed pretty confusing and unclear - is not "bashing" even if we're having a little fun with some of the aspects (the dyed hair is kinda funny any way you look at it):lecture


On a side note, I really want this figure and will go nicely with my Ren that's on pre order.

Does anyone know when the 'old' Luke is due to ship? We get some idea on when the 'projection' may be shown.

I do too. It's Luke.:lecture

And while there's no news except a teaser pic and we're waiting, it's fun to discuss the sequence this specific version of Luke is taken from. Or... maybe it isn't?:dunno
 
Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

Is Rey a Jedi knight? Sorry, maybe I got lost in the minutiae.

And... was she sneaking around the back of the base at the same time Luke was distracting out front? That's another one I missed. I thought she was with everyone else.

The way it was said - "while he's distracting the guards out front, a Jedi is sneaking around back" even inferred that Rey was in on Luke's plan and working in concert with him as it was playing out.

Is that your understanding too?
Rey is a Jedi. Yeah. She was in Falcon out back while Luke was out front distracting. You should probably watch the movie again if you missed that.

You may have inferred that, but it was not implied. That's the problem with assuming. Luke knew that Rey was going there to help the resistance. He decided to help too. Rey's knowledge of that doesn't come into play.
 
Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

Is Rey a Jedi knight? Sorry, maybe I got lost in the minutiae.

And... was she sneaking around the back of the base at the same time Luke was distracting out front? That's another one I missed. I thought she was with everyone else.

The way it was said - "while he's distracting the guards out front, a Jedi is sneaking around back" even inferred that Rey was in on Luke's plan and working in concert with him as it was playing out.

Is that your understanding too?

I don’t think the official distinction of Jedi Knight makes any difference. After all, most of this movie is about removing that distinction/designation. Although, Luke clearly sees her that way based on his dialog with Ben.

And are you saying you thought Rey was with everyone else, as in she was inside the mine? She’s not, she was piloting the Falcon and drawing the fighters away from the battle out front, then discovers the exit of the cave based on Finn’s location and the foxes running out.

I don’t think I’d go so far as to say she’s “in on Luke’s plan”. After all, she pretty much said f this guy when she left Ahch To. But, I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that Luke knew what she was doing in the course of the battle.
 
Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

Rey is a Jedi. Yeah. She was in Falcon out back while Luke was out front distracting. You should probably watch the movie again if you missed that.

You may have inferred that, but it was not implied. That's the problem with assuming. Luke knew that Rey was going there to help the resistance. He decided to help too. Rey's knowledge of that doesn't come into play.

Rey's an actual Jedi knight now? Was that shown/stated onscreen?

And doesn't Rey arrive AFTER Luke has gone out to face Kylo and the FO, and AFTER Poe has "realized" what Luke's plan is? She seems to only arrive at the very last minute, and if Poe didn't guess Luke's plan earlier, anything Rey did wouldn't have amounted to much.

Where was even the hint that Luke colluded with Rey to come up with a rescue plan, and then told Leia of his plan (even offscreen)? Because without Luke telling Leia (or anyone there,) Rey removing rocks is meaningless - she'd never find the trapped rebels in the labyrinth.

So you're inferring that Luke planned all this with Rey ahead of time? I haven't seen that anywhere (and its not onscreen?) but it's interesting. Just trying to understand what your take on this is.
 
Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

Rey arrives when the speeders are still out there.
 
Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

If you’re gonna try so hard to poke holes, it seems like you’d really serve yourself better by knowing basic plot points. Rey finding the resistance members doesn’t hinge on Luke at all. And again, Luke’s dialog pretty much confirms that Rey is a Jedi, or will be.
 
Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

Rey's an actual Jedi knight now? Was that shown/stated onscreen?

And doesn't Rey arrive AFTER Luke has gone out to face Kylo and the FO, and AFTER Poe has "realized" what Luke's plan is? She seems to only arrive at the very last minute, and if Poe didn't guess Luke's plan earlier, anything Rey did wouldn't have amounted to much.

Where was even the hint that Luke colluded with Rey to come up with a rescue plan, and then told Leia of his plan (even offscreen)? Because without Luke telling Leia (or anyone there,) Rey removing rocks is meaningless - she'd never find the trapped rebels in the labyrinth.

So you're inferring that Luke planned all this with Rey ahead of time? I haven't seen that anywhere (and its not onscreen?) but it's interesting. Just trying to understand what your take on this is.
As to Rey being a Jedi, you're right that it's never stated/shown on screen. And I'll concede that calling her a Jedi might be imprecise. It just seems a bit easier than Light-side-leaning force-user.

Rey arrives before Luke. She draws a bunch of TIE's away. I think she realizes the front door isn't an option and uses the beacon thing to lock on to Finn and find the entrance in the back. Don't she and Chewbacca see the crystal foxes escaping from that area?

My take on the whole situation is this: the First Order are on Crait to destroy them all. The Resistance mounting a counter-offensive with little to no chance of success. It doesn't work. Rey shows up to support, and the FO really hate that ship, so they give chase. Unbeknownst to Rey, Luke, having had a change of heart shows up. He sees Leia. Leia probably realizes that Luke isn't really there, but his arrival gave a much needed boost in morale to the troops. She doesn't want to take that away just yet, but even so, she doesn't really have a plan. Poe comes up with a plan. Rey and Chewie see the foxes escaping. That and Finn's beacon essentially tell her that's where the resistance has the best shot of rescue. Luke never had to explain his plans to anyone and didn't. People use their own innate abilities which have been honed through practice and experience, whether it be inspiring the troops (Finn), coming up with and executing a plan (Poe), or lifting rocks (Rey). I don't know. That's just my quick takeaway.
 
Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

As to Rey being a Jedi, you're right that it's never stated/shown on screen. And I'll concede that calling her a Jedi might be imprecise. It just seems a bit easier than Light-side-leaning force-user.

Rey arrives before Luke. She draws a bunch of TIE's away. I think she realizes the front door isn't an option and uses the beacon thing to lock on to Finn and find the entrance in the back. Don't she and Chewbacca see the crystal foxes escaping from that area?

My take on the whole situation is this: the First Order are on Crait to destroy them all. The Resistance mounting a counter-offensive with little to no chance of success. It doesn't work. Rey shows up to support, and the FO really hate that ship, so they give chase. Unbeknownst to Rey, Luke, having had a change of heart shows up. He sees Leia. Leia probably realizes that Luke isn't really there, but his arrival gave a much needed boost in morale to the troops. She doesn't want to take that away just yet, but even so, she doesn't really have a plan. Poe comes up with a plan. Rey and Chewie see the foxes escaping. That and Finn's beacon essentially tell her that's where the resistance has the best shot of rescue. Luke never had to explain his plans to anyone and didn't. People use their own innate abilities which have been honed through practice and experience, whether it be inspiring the troops (Finn), coming up with and executing a plan (Poe), or lifting rocks (Rey). I don't know. That's just my quick takeaway.

Interesting points, and laid out in a way that makes sense.:duff

All of this bears discussion because the movie goes out of its way to show that Luke makes a "certain-death" choice (though even that "projection'll kill ya" idea is more than a little fuzzy) to do the holo-projection thing instead of actually coming to Crait. It's a conscious decision.

So given that it's a major plot point, a huge reveal, a conscious decision and the thing that leads to the death of the hero of the entire OT... what IS Luke's plan?

You infer it was to "boost morale to the troops" - but how could Luke randomly showing up (with it unclear how he even got there past a presumed blockade, what he's going to do exactly, and then simply wandering out to stare down a wall of ATATs) actually boost morale, other than a "star-sighting" for some downtrodden rebels?

And a morale boost for what? It's not like they are in a pitched battle that some more morale would make the difference for - they are surrounded, trapped like rats. And Luke doesn't show up with some rousing speech or announce some clever plan to the group - he actually IGNORES them all, except Leia of course.

I kind of love your inference that Luke's plan is to try to draw the best from those there simply by showing up - it's getting closer to something meaningful for Luke to die for - but that's pretty abstract for a life-and-death situation.

Isn't the "distract them while you guys escape" thing a better plan than "boost morale" or symbolically inspiring people to "dig deep into their strengths" by showing up? I love your idea he colluded with Rey. But the whole plan needs to have been disseminated to at least Leia and Rey for it to have been worth Luke throwing his life away for it.

These are the questions that still dog the sequence:

1. Does Leia know that Luke isn't really there, ie is just a projection (people seem to have taken Leia's "touch" reaction to mean totally different things)?
2. Luke is in essence killing himself - presumably for a reason beyond a morale boost or inspiration - so does he project to Crait with the "distract/escape" plan in mind?
3. If this is Luke's plan, why doesn't he tell anyone (even offscreen, and having it be an audience surprise later) including, importantly, Leia or Rey?
4. Does Luke's plan somehow involve (or even rely on) Rey, who he knows is heading there to help anyway and is outside?
5. If it does involve Rey, why does she not seem to be acting in accordance with any plan?
6. If Leia knows what Luke's plan is, why does she simply stand and watch him walking out like everyone else, and not arrange the escape as precious minutes pass?
6. If the "distract/escape" idea was the plan all along, then why does the movie rely on Poe to randomly realize that's the plan much later?

The point is, Luke Skywalker DIES because of this decision and this moment, so it really is worth discussing.
 
Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRMED

Funny. I am a major student of history and I do find it absolutely fascinating (not just American history though.) And it is indeed a way to gain a deeper understanding of - and be skeptical of - many things today.

Maybe if everyone was as skeptical of the ST as they are deeply interested in SW we'd be a completely different forum.:monkey3

Ha! I’m not psychic, I swear. I like you even more now.
This discussion has to move to the movies section though. It’s completely hijacked this figure thread.


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