T1 is my T-Bible. There were too many things wrong with the T2 universe for my taste.
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T1 is my T-Bible. There were too many things wrong with the T2 universe for my taste.
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1st: At the time I thought the T-1000 was too fantastic to be believable in the real world. Now they actually have chemicals that can make shapes with eletromagnetic stimulation. So, that's actually a check in the minus column that has been erased.
2nd: It ruined the circular timeline that T1 set up which indicates that John would not have been born if Skynet hadn't tried to keep him from being born, and that Cyberdyne would not have developed the tech without the T-800 remains in the factory. The events that lead to those two things happening involve Judgment Day happening on August 29th, 1997. When the events of T2 happened, that timeline was altered, and thereby could not possibly yield the same course of events that culminate in the 1984 time incursion. Logically, every person that would have survived the War starting in 1997 would now be in a different place with the new J-Day event, so all bets are off on who survives at all.
3rd: Arnold was supposed to be the exact same model as the T-800 model 101 in T1, but he looks smaller and older. Yes, I know the actor aged and there's zip that can be done about that, but it kept me from believing the character as much. But that's just the visual which I can live with.
4th: Arnold played the Terminator WAY too human in T2. Thank God for the Special Edition which shows the CPU switched from read only to learning mode to help make some of his antics plausible. Even so, I just had a sense that Arnold knew his character was cool, and so did James Cameron, which is why they played "Bad to the Bone" when he got on the bike. Absolutely it was a cool scene, but the worst thing you can do to a cool character is tell the audience that he is cool. The biggest thing that pissed me off is after Arnold grenades the 1000 off the platform, when he stands up as though humanly exhausted and says, "I need a vacation." WTF! There was no logical reason for that comment except to get a laugh. Lame. The constant humanizing of the T-800 just because he was the hero ruined the image of what a Terminator is, even if it's reprogrammed, and there was nothing of the T1 Terminator represented. In that regard, I thought he was more believable as a Terminator in T3, even with the stupid lines. At least there were logical reasons for the dumb stuff he said. Things like "Talk to the hand" was because the stripper said that to him, and "I am not ____ting you" was a direct response to Connor's accusation.
5th: As mentioned above, the skin healing issue. In the first movie, the wounds rotted. That's what I would personally expect from a machine wearing flesh as a disguise. It's not eating, so where is the new flesh material coming from to heal. It's a disguise like clothes. They get ruined, you get new clothes. A Terminator uses its skin to infiltrate, not play bodyguard for 150 years. After target is terminated, it goes back to be reskinned for another mission or it becomes a foot soldier like we see at the beginning of T2.
6th: The difference between practical and CG effects on the T-1000 was so obvious that it was hard to suspend disbelief.
7th: The huge budget (for the time) and the excessive actions scenes, while entertaining to watch, eliminate the realistic, gritty feel the first movie had which keeps me thinking I'm watching a very polished action movie instead of something completely believable like T1 or movies like Predator and District 9.
I can go on...
2nd: It ruined the circular timeline that T1 set up which indicates that John would not have been born if Skynet hadn't tried to keep him from being born, and that Cyberdyne would not have developed the tech without the T-800 remains in the factory. The events that lead to those two things happening involve Judgment Day happening on August 29th, 1997. When the events of T2 happened, that timeline was altered, and thereby could not possibly yield the same course of events that culminate in the 1984 time incursion. Logically, every person that would have survived the War starting in 1997 would now be in a different place with the new J-Day event, so all bets are off on who survives at all.
3rd: Arnold was supposed to be the exact same model as the T-800 model 101 in T1, but he looks smaller and older. Yes, I know the actor aged and there's zip that can be done about that, but it kept me from believing the character as much. But that's just the visual which I can live with.
4th: Arnold played the Terminator WAY too human in T2. Thank God for the Special Edition which shows the CPU switched from read only to learning mode to help make some of his antics plausible. Even so, I just had a sense that Arnold knew his character was cool, and so did James Cameron, which is why they played "Bad to the Bone" when he got on the bike. Absolutely it was a cool scene, but the worst thing you can do to a cool character is tell the audience that he is cool. The biggest thing that pissed me off is after Arnold grenades the 1000 off the platform, when he stands up as though humanly exhausted and says, "I need a vacation." WTF! There was no logical reason for that comment except to get a laugh. Lame. The constant humanizing of the T-800 just because he was the hero ruined the image of what a Terminator is, even if it's reprogrammed, and there was nothing of the T1 Terminator represented. In that regard, I thought he was more believable as a Terminator in T3, even with the stupid lines. At least there were logical reasons for the dumb stuff he said. Things like "Talk to the hand" was because the stripper said that to him, and "I am not ____ting you" was a direct response to Connor's accusation.
5th: As mentioned above, the skin healing issue. In the first movie, the wounds rotted. That's what I would personally expect from a machine wearing flesh as a disguise. It's not eating, so where is the new flesh material coming from to heal. It's a disguise like clothes. They get ruined, you get new clothes. A Terminator uses its skin to infiltrate, not play bodyguard for 150 years. After target is terminated, it goes back to be reskinned for another mission or it becomes a foot soldier like we see at the beginning of T2.
6th: The difference between practical and CG effects on the T-1000 was so obvious that it was hard to suspend disbelief.
7th: The huge budget (for the time) and the excessive actions scenes, while entertaining to watch, eliminate the realistic, gritty feel the first movie had which keeps me thinking I'm watching a very polished action movie instead of something completely believable like T1 or movies like Predator and District 9.
I can go on...
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And didn't you also theorise that the T-1000 could involve alien technology which Skynet gained access to? I rather liked that idea because if the Terminator verse were to acknowledge alien life then it wouldn't be a stretch to suggest that the Predator universe is compatible. And if the Predator universe is compatible then Dutch Schaeffer could have been the basis of the model 101 T-800s.
Hang on were you not the one who also found a plausible way to rationalise how each film fits in the overall scheme of things?
Well I think this is moot for the reason you mention but in any case it could be explained that the T2 T-800 had been fleshed for longer than the T1 had and his flesh had aged ever so slightly.
I agree about the ''Don't tell the audience that your character is cool", exhibit 'Bad to the bone' song being played. Well I at least get your point, I do however happen to like that scene perhaps just because I've grown up with it. But I believe all the humanising is plausible as a result of the chip reset in the SE. So none of that bothers me all. Sure I might prefer the cold Arnie of T1 but I see nothing wrong with whats presented in T2 given the circumstances.
I agree with this to an extent but in T2 his flesh damage is sustained over a very short period - the Cyberdyne encounter with the SWAT team where he first gets badly shot up leads directly on to the steel mill where the rest of the damage occurs and this part of the film seems to occur in real-time. Thats really not enough time for rotting to happen. Perhaps it would have started to happen had he stuck around.
Skiman
Super Freak
RUINED!!!
Great minds, my friend. The first time I stood my Dutch figure next to an Endo, I thought that exact same thing.
Yes, and I did that to help myself accept all instalments of the series because I really want more than one movie to watch of my favorite story of all time, but in this case I was only listing things I didn't like about T2.
Agreed. There is also acceptable room for variations within a model number. Such things like complexion, age, hair color, eye color, and facial hair could all be customizing options within the 101 model scheme. The resistance may have felt that Mr. Universe was a bit too conspicuous, but very healthy guy in the 90's was common enough while still being big enough to hide the Endo.
Agreed again, and I loved it growing up, but it will always remind me that I'm watching a movie, not experiencing an event. It was a feel good, rock on moment, but I think the scene would have a stronger impact without the song.
Considering the amount of damage, he definitely couln't have healed, and Sarah was stitching up the bullet holes to prevent bleeding earlier in the film, whereas the 800 in T1 didn't seem to take care of his flesh injuries at all. However, the fact that the skin in T1 rotted within days when all there was were bullet holes and a missing eyelid clearly portrayed a disguise that was never meant to heal, and therefore was never meant to outlast a mission.
James Cameron wrote the perfect Terminator bible in T1, but he didn't stick to it. He had to blaspheme a bit to make the devil his savior.
Wow, how deep did I get on that one?
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villainsfan42
Super Freak
T3 already _____*ed your idea. sorry. good idea though.Great minds, my friend. The first time I stood my Dutch figure next to an Endo, I thought that exact same thing.
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While that whole clip is silly, the fac that they show off T-800 Endos in it really makes it crap, the T-1, first ever Terminator, is a state-of-the-art machine in T3, the human looking Terminators are way beyond the capabilities of the time. It's good that clip was scrapped for numerous reasons.
Voorhees27
Super Freak
RUINED!!!
Cheer up, Sarah should be shipping this week and then it's on.
Voorhees27
Super Freak
The question is, how are most gonna display her? Hat on? Glasses on? I think i'm gonna sport the "Dyson's house" look. So no (lame) glasses but hat on.
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It will be hat off, glasses on when I eventually pick her up. For me and the doll.
While film inaccurrate, I'll probably rock the shotgun from the Steel Mill, it's just Sarah from T2 to me, which is why the T-1000 figure is so important, having the proper head for the look.
Kross
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Sarah Connor is awesome now we need little John Connor from T2
Boba Ben
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I'll be displaying her without the glasses or hat on.
manolis
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when she comes out in stores my friends????
EVILFACE
Insufferable S.O.B.
"We can fix it" is still funnAy.
As Maulfan said that scene was scrapped so as far as I'm concerned it doesn't count. So I'll hold onto the idea of Dutch being the model for the 101 T-800s.
Great minds, my friend. The first time I stood my Dutch figure next to an Endo, I thought that exact same thing.
I think its very plausible considering the records they would have had on Dutch and his Predator encounter. Where I would be vague on it is exactly how and to what extent he would come to participate in the project or indeed who he'd be dealing with - cyberdyne according to T1-verse or CRS according to T3-verse. I'm also vague on how you get the living tissue aspect of a Terminator to look like a particular person without cloning entire individuals and harvesting their external flesh or exactly who would do this - morally unscrupulous humans pre-skynet or perhaps enslaved humans post-skynet. Presumably Dutch Schaeffer would know nothing about this sort of thing going on.
Also considering that Predator 2 takes place in 1997, the original year of Judgment day, one would have to assume that chronologically it would go after the events of T2 where judgment day got put back. Thats if you want to think about the Predator and Terminator verses co-existing.
Maybe. Perhaps that ominous bit of music they play over T-800s other scenes before he finds John Connor, y'know every time you see him on the bike. I have kinda always thought about the choice of 'Bad to the bone' in that scene as being a bit of a giveaway that T-800 is the good guy this time, if you didn't already know; because it would never have been played for the T1 T-800 or indeed the T-1000.
Yeah thats a good point. The wounds he had in T1 prior to the 'run over by truck' damage were much simpler and cleaner and yet they were already rotting and attracting flies.
Skiman
Super Freak
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