How could Old Ben be so wrong?

[The Mike]

Certainly he would be thinking of significant things that might be on the planet of interest to the rebels.

There was. Ben. Leia was going out of her way to get the plans to Ben including the hologram message asking for his help against the Empire on behalf of her "father".

Ben should have been the first thing that sprung to mind.

We would he? He didn't even know Ben was alive and after the purge why would he? Leia was going on the mission and Bail knew where Ben was and told her but nothing more. Vader kidnapped Leia who didn't tell him why they were going there or whether Tatooine was the main intended planet. Even after they take off in the pod, the Empire thinks it was a mistake. Why would he have had any thought that Ben was there?

And then why would Obi-Wan be living here?

He would have never known, he thought Ben was dead. The planet meant nothing to him other than his homeplanet that he wanted nothing to do with especially after what would have happened to his mother. He didn't even bother to go to the planet itself due to his hatred of the sand, planet, etc.

Where would he be? Shimi's husband has an old farm down there. Might be a place to start looking.

Why? His mother was dead, he didn't know Owen, he didn't care about Lars family. As far as he was concerned anything of importance on Tatooine was gone after his mother died.

By design or accident Vader would have found Luke. Ben chose a crappy hiding place for the kid.

Nope sorry. He chose a fine place considering that Vader had no agenda to go back to Tatooine, a planet full of sand and villains, he would have never thought to go there for any reason considering he didn't even know Ben was there. We can blame a lot of the prequels or inconsistencies of the OT but this isn't one of them.

 

[spekerol]

Qoute
^^ Huh? Luke got a crash course in Jedi training, and now he's going to go into the Death Star to have another showdown with Vader, who kicked his tail and cut off his hand during their last encounter. Luke recieved no addition training afterwards. Perhaps this means that Luke is DESTINED to fight and destroy Vader AND the Emperor? That would UNbalance the Force, which is what the Jedi supposedly seek.

How do we know do we know how much time transpired between ESB and ROTJ? could have been 2-5 years Han was in Carbo remember guys. and Jedi training could have been done by himself
he finished with yoda in ETB and carried on I am sure in other ways.

 

[The Mike]

The PT changed that a bit. Now Anakin is the over-arching hero. But Luke is a close second.

For some. For me my favorite characters are still Boba Fett and Luke Skywalker. The prequels (I enjoyed parts of them) don't really change that. Anakin Skywalker is a meh character IMHO and I still love Vader despite the watering down of Lucas' plan but it didn't change that for me Episodes IV-VI are about Luke's rise to become a Jedi in the footsteps of his father and move the Force back to the lightside not about the redemption of Anakin Skywalker, that despite Lucas' best intentions doesn't really come off that way. That single 45 second act doesn't exactly wipe away the evil portrayed in ROTS or throughout the prequels. It's less a full on redemption and more akin to the last minute repent of a sinner on their death bed.

Don't get me started on Lucas taking a character who was on screen shortly but had a ton of mystery behind him that he allowed the fanboys (like myself) to create in their heads like he did with the original Jedi idea and made him more interesting throughout the prequels as a clone...

 

[Hume77]

Why would Vader think that Ben was dead? Vader lost to Ben in Mustafar, and Ben walked away while Vader burned. Why would Vader think Ben was dead? Did he think that Ben killed himself over the grief of losing Vader to the Dark Side?

Vader knew full well that Obi-wan was a crafty, sly old Jedi. Vader spent years around this guy. In ANH, he should have expected him to still be alive after the events of ROTS.

Yet another indication that Lucas didn't have it planned out from the start, but made it up as he went along.

 

[The Mike]

Luke got a crash course in Jedi training, and now he's going to go into the Death Star to have another showdown with Vader, who kicked his tail and cut off his hand during their last encounter. Luke recieved no addition training afterwards. Perhaps this means that Luke is DESTINED to fight and destroy Vader AND the Emperor? That would UNbalance the Force, which is what the Jedi supposedly seek.

Well before the prequels the Force was described as almost immaculate in the light side while the dark side was more seductive because it was easier. Luke being one with the light side of the Force in theory would give him a bit of the edge. When he went to Vader in ROTJ he was more monk than warrior, fighting defensively and not taking deathblows it wasn't until his sister was threatened did he even take out aggression. I always viewed it as his mission to DSII was to save Vader and bring him back not to kill him but he was prepared just in case.

When he gets to Yoda in ROTJ, he tells him that he requires no more training. So whatever he learned in ESB and did in the few years in between must have been enough, another point that makes no sense if Luke can learn how to be a knight in about 6 years, yet Younglings are trained almost since birth and Anakin at 10 was too old....but whatever.

 

[spekerol]

Ok I am gonna go out on a limb on this one no offense in all good kindness.

Qoute:

“I haven’t gone by the name Obi-Wan since, oh, before you were born.” – WRONG!



Wrong!? How so remember he was Obi Wan up until Luke and Leia were born he was at the delivery as far as I can remember he was there with Padme and the Droid Delivers. His name Obi Wan Died with the birth of Luke and Leia so as to not only cover his Rear End on the planet Tantooine and look after Luke. So that would explain why he went by Old Ben. He Had not heard of that name because he had no one to call him that since everyone he knew pretty much died in ROTS. Which would explain I have not heard of that name since before you were born. If I knew Half the Empire was hunting my A%* Down I would not want to go by that name after Kicking Vader to the Curb either! makes sense.

 

[The Mike]

Why would Vader think that Ben was dead? Vader lost to Ben in Mustafar, and Ben walked away while Vader burned. Why would Vader think Ben was dead?

Two words, age and arrogance. We know that Vader went on a Jedi Purge in the time between ROTS and ANH. He hunted the Jedi and killed them, thinking he got them. He figured since he never found Obi-Wan one of the greatest Jedis he was around that he was already dead by some other fate. As old as Ben was in ANH, it was safe to assume with no activity being made by Ben throughout that he was dead.

Yet another indication that Lucas didn't have it planned out from the start, but made it up as he went along.

I still agree with this statement.

 

[pixletwin]

@Mike. I think you may be confusing "main character" with "favorite character". Either that or your reply to me was a separate thought and not a response at all.

 

[Khev]

Not a fact, but your opinion - that there's nothing to indicate in the first film that Lucas didn't think Vader would someday be a central figure. In my opinion, the film itself indicates to me that Vader wasn't meant to be the central character, but rather that Luke was, given how the focus is on Luke and Vader is depicted as cow-towing to the higher Empire officers.

Of course we all assumed Luke was the central character of the saga, because at that time the saga consisted of one movie. And that movie was all about Luke learning how to kick ass against the Empire.

You may have guessed that Lucas always intended Vader to be the father. That you may have guessed wrong certainly isn't George's fault.

As a kid I guessed wrong, but like most here I've long since learned that ANH was written to allow for Vader to not be the father and to lean in fact toward the notion that Anakin was a different guy. You keep citing a draft of TESB where Vader wasn't Luke's dad, but there are drafts of *Star Wars* where the bad guy was the father of twins. He just pushed all that aside when he completed the script for a potentially one-shot movie and then apparently had an epiphany after it was a hit that it would be cool to reinsert that idea. It would have been nice if he had integrated it a little more seemlessly but there you go.

 

[Wor-Gar]

The PT changed that a bit. Now Anakin is the over-arching hero. But Luke is a close second.

Of the six films, I see the Anakin story as a tragedy.

of the OT, I see Luke as the Heroic story.

But oddly, with all the cartoons and things following the PT, it seems that Anakin has become the new hero of Star Wars for a new generation... a hero ultimately doomed to failure. What's that tell you?

 

[pixletwin]

Then you went on and made the exact same point I made.

...for me Episodes IV-VI are about Luke's rise to become a Jedi in the footsteps of his father and move the Force back to the lightside not about the redemption of Anakin Skywalker...

Are you sure MaulFan hasn't hacked your account?

 

[spekerol]

Ok so yes she calls him obi wan before she dies, but nevertheless When they were born Obi Wan as we know it Died......and Old Ben he Became "Until the Time is right disappear we will, Yoda said and then he called him Master Kenobi after that not Obi Wan : ) solitude is considered being alone and away from everyone and everything.

 

[pixletwin]

....Anakin has become the new hero of Star Wars for a new generation... a hero ultimately doomed to failure. What's that tell you?

Nothing good. Thats what.

 

[spekerol]

For Good Measure:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiQlDHxIJxY

 

[The Mike]

@Mike. I think you may be confusing "main character" with "favorite character". Either that or your reply to me was a separate thought and not a response at all.

Then you went on and made the exact same point I made. Are you sure MaulFan hasn't hacked your account?

. No they are separate thoughts. For me Anakin isn't the overarching hero. I said that. For me. It says that in the post....

 

[Wor-Gar]

Ok so yes she calls him obi wan before she dies, but nevertheless When they were born Obi Wan as we know it Died......and Old Ben he Became "Until the Time is right disappear we will, Yoda said and then he called him Master Kenobi after that not Obi Wan : ) solitude is considered being alone and away from everyone and everything.

Clean argument there.

 

[Khev]

Ok so yes she calls him obi wan before she dies, but nevertheless When they were born Obi Wan as we know it Died......and Old Ben he Became "Until the Time is right disappear we will, Yoda said and then he called him Master Kenobi after that not Obi Wan : ) solitude is considered being alone and away from everyone and everything.

Right, and let me guess, the sandpeople camped out during the pod race really are as bad a shots as Ben claimed. They were shooting at womprats and hitting the pods by mistake right?

 

[pixletwin]

. No they are separate thoughts. For me Anakin isn't the overarching hero. I said that. For me. It says that in the post....

Ok. Just making sure.

 

[spekerol]

Qoute ight, and let me guess, the sandpeople camped out during the pod race really are as bad a shots as Ben claimed. They were shooting at womprats and hitting the pods by mistake right?

LOL- Well The is a Difference Hunting Galatic Squirrels and Knowing How to take down or disable the Jawa's Vehicle. The Storm Troopers Hunting The Droids did not exactly have a tank to shoot at that mover in the DVD version of the ANH they had lizards and a couple of Laser rifles. that Jawa Mover was A Beast of a machine. So accuracy probably was golden for them at that point.

With saying that I would say Sand People would not know how to disable a Fudge sickle in winter much less a Jawa freaking Beast Tank of like Gigantic Size.

 

[spekerol]

basically what I am saying is this

a Womprat is not a Jawa Mover, If you want to disable a Tank Then you need to hit it where it counts, the rifles the sand people had probably were not superior in fire power as opposed to the Storm Troopers. Hitting a Pod Racer....? well they were not exactly armored either.