How did this dirtbag get this already???

[cameosis]

.

Just joking. You make some very good points. I'm not trying to lead the troops into feedback battles. It was just a suggestion.

all cool (i got corrose and johnny as proof that i »exist,« heh).
i’m just a casual collector, so i’ll have to take into account that my lack of passion comes off a bit harsh. to me, it’s just not a viable solution.

the problem is on a different level: the limited editions.

being a vinyl (the music records) buff, i love my original pressings as much as the next guy, and i know there is a significant group of people out there who view rare records as financial investments (same goes for pretty much anything that people—usually men—collect). fine with me.

but as soon as demand exceeds supply, there will be people who will cater to those who want the rare goods.

another member wrote: »if you can’t get it from the artist, don’t buy it.« fair enough.

but you could also go one step further and demand that if there isn’t a license … don’t buy it. i am positive, nobody would do the latter.

(re)releasing customization parts would hurt aftermarket suppliers, because in this field, an artist’s name is his »brand« … and brand loyalty seems pretty high to me, around here. anything else won’t work, but that’s just my opinion.

 

[galactiboy]

i take it you mean the »seller,« no?

yes... I meant seller.

And as someone mentioned if the quality is bad that's another issue when leaving feedback but it looks like all of his feedback is positive so I wouldn't be surprised if he's at least selling good quality casts.

 

[siquisiri]

Again with this???????
Its easy. He recasts, the majority of us wont buy in support of the sculptors.
On the other hand, some will, and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

 

[Levit05]

had to do a double take....i could have swore this was already up a few weeks ago....no?

 

[TheFiend]

^ I thought is was too. This isn't anything we didn't already know....

Sent from my LG-E739 using Tapatalk 2

 

[drdandalek]

Again with this???????
Its easy. He recasts, the majority of us wont buy in support of the sculptors.
On the other hand, some will, and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

I agree. Same junk with the same arguments over and over for the past few weeks. The head that started this thread was already mentioned on the last recaster thread. Nobody outside of these forums even knows or cares who Trevor Grove is. We can only hope that those of us on the forum respect the artist and hobby enough not to buy the recasts. To expect that from the people in the real world is a little mistaken. Nobody outside of these forums knows or cares. I just hope that the freaks on here don't buy the recasts as I hope they want to support these artists to make more great custom heads that they want. I do agree with karazmanov TN that if Trevor would offer his heads at a competitive price on eBay, that is the only way to actually put a dent in recaster sales. A $200 option for s head is outside the realm of most every collector apart from a few.

 

[krec9]

had to do a double take....i could have swore this was already up a few weeks ago....no?

Yea im the one who posted the link in another thread.

 

[Anzik]

Its a shame no one can accidentally break recasters fingers.

 

[galactiboy]

I agree. Same junk with the same arguments over and over for the past few weeks. The head that started this thread was already mentioned on the last recaster thread. Nobody outside of these forums even knows or cares who Trevor Grove is. We can only hope that those of us on the forum respect the artist and hobby enough not to buy the recasts. To expect that from the people in the real world is a little mistaken. Nobody outside of these forums knows or cares. I just hope that the freaks on here don't buy the recasts as I hope they want to support these artists to make more great custom heads that they want. I do agree with karazmanov TN that if Trevor would offer his heads at a competitive price on eBay, that is the only way to actually put a dent in recaster sales. A $200 option for s head is outside the realm of most every collector apart from a few.

Well I think he's more known than just here... he's quite well respected in the industry and other places and I'm sure his family cares about him

But the point is true that nothing legally can happen to prevent recasting since it was an unlicensed item to begin with so we just have to be good little customers and not support jerkwad.

 

[thainer]

I agree. Same junk with the same arguments over and over for the past few weeks. The head that started this thread was already mentioned on the last recaster thread. Nobody outside of these forums even knows or cares who Trevor Grove is. We can only hope that those of us on the forum respect the artist and hobby enough not to buy the recasts. To expect that from the people in the real world is a little mistaken. Nobody outside of these forums knows or cares. I just hope that the freaks on here don't buy the recasts as I hope they want to support these artists to make more great custom heads that they want. I do agree with karazmanov TN that if Trevor would offer his heads at a competitive price on eBay, that is the only way to actually put a dent in recaster sales. A $200 option for s head is outside the realm of most every collector apart from a few.

Just playing Devil's Advocate here, so no pitchforks or torches:

Everyone talks about supporting the artist. I'm all for that. But are said artists really supporting us? Or themselves? A lot has already been said about the price of head sculpts rising of late. A lot has also been said about limited runs and the difficulty in getting a desired head sculpt. Of sculptors having difficulty with members of the collecting community and taking all their cool toys and going home. The latest Estudio Proteus deal has left a bad taste in the mouths of a lot of people on this board as it is one more way to make a number of sought after sculpts available to only a select few whose pockets are deep enough to pay $200 for a head.

The way I see it, for good or ill, recasters are filling a niche in this hobby. He steals a cool head, copies it ad infinitum, and markets the ***** out of it. He makes hard to find items available to people that can't get them otherwise and sells truckloads of them. Usually (not always) at a better price than the original.

Now before I get tarred and/or feathered, I am not saying we need to support recasters (as I am selling a crossbow right now that I would hate to see stolen by some scumbag) but that maybe the sculptors who are getting ripped off could take a page from the recasters' book and make these sculpts available to the people who want them at a price that a larger percentage can afford to pay.

My 2 cents. And no pennies in Canada anymore so they have to go somewhere.

 

[cameosis]

.

do you have a link to the estudio proteus issue? i'm not familiar with it, but would like to give it a glance.

 

[krec9]

Just playing Devil's Advocate here, so no pitchforks or torches:

Everyone talks about supporting the artist. I'm all for that. But are said artists really supporting us? Or themselves? A lot has already been said about the price of head sculpts rising of late. A lot has also been said about limited runs and the difficulty in getting a desired head sculpt. Of sculptors having difficulty with members of the collecting community and taking all their cool toys and going home. The latest Estudio Proteus deal has left a bad taste in the mouths of a lot of people on this board as it is one more way to make a number of sought after sculpts available to only a select few whose pockets are deep enough to pay $200 for a head.

The way I see it, for good or ill, recasters are filling a niche in this hobby. He steals a cool head, copies it ad infinitum, and markets the ***** out of it. He makes hard to find items available to people that can't get them otherwise and sells truckloads of them. Usually (not always) at a better price than the original.

Now before I get tarred and/or feathered, I am not saying we need to support recasters (as I am selling a crossbow right now that I would hate to see stolen by some scumbag) but that maybe the sculptors who are getting ripped off could take a page from the recasters' book and make these sculpts available to the people who want them at a price that a larger percentage can afford to pay.

My 2 cents. And no pennies in Canada anymore so they have to go somewhere.

Good info didn't know Estudio is trying to charge that much for a head.

 

[thainer]

Re: .

do you have a link to the estudio proteus issue? i'm not familiar with it, but would like to give it a glance.

https://sideshowcollectors.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128991

Lots of reading but the short version is that Estudio Proteus has entered into an agreement with Trevor Grove to re-release some of his earlier heads but there is a catch. Estudio Proteus is a painting studio with mouths to feed so they are only offering painted versions of the sculpts at $200 a pop. Which is fine since Trevor and Salvadore want to do it that way (their companies, their agreement, their rules) but they are not doing anything to relieve the pressure some fans are feeling to own one of Trevor's sculpts. And hence, not doing anything to counter some people's reasons for visiting recasters.

My personal opinion is that if you are angry at someone stealing your property-drive them out of business. Make the sculpts available, undersell them, put the heads in cereal boxes if you have to. The people buying from babygq are proving there is a market for this stuff-so sell it to them. Don't hide behind artistic integrity and exclusive deals. Give the people what they want to buy.

 

[vareika]

Just playing Devil's Advocate here, so no pitchforks or torches:

Everyone talks about supporting the artist. I'm all for that. But are said artists really supporting us? Or themselves? A lot has already been said about the price of head sculpts rising of late. A lot has also been said about limited runs and the difficulty in getting a desired head sculpt. Of sculptors having difficulty with members of the collecting community and taking all their cool toys and going home. The latest Estudio Proteus deal has left a bad taste in the mouths of a lot of people on this board as it is one more way to make a number of sought after sculpts available to only a select few whose pockets are deep enough to pay $200 for a head.

The way I see it, for good or ill, recasters are filling a niche in this hobby. He steals a cool head, copies it ad infinitum, and markets the ***** out of it. He makes hard to find items available to people that can't get them otherwise and sells truckloads of them. Usually (not always) at a better price than the original.

Now before I get tarred and/or feathered, I am not saying we need to support recasters (as I am selling a crossbow right now that I would hate to see stolen by some scumbag) but that maybe the sculptors who are getting ripped off could take a page from the recasters' book and make these sculpts available to the people who want them at a price that a larger percentage can afford to pay.

My 2 cents. And no pennies in Canada anymore so they have to go somewhere.

Overall I agree with what you said but part of me thinks that getting the legit to bow down or change because of the non-legit is scary because if everyone did that...it just doesn't happen. I don't know how to explain it, but its almost like a making bad drugs legal in order to stop illegal drugs. I know that's probably a sensitive subject but its what this is starting to remind me. As much as I hate rising prices in this hobby, I still don't think high priced sculpts should be blamed as the reason behind the recasts. I think regardless of the price of the legit sculpts, recasters always exist and people who buy recasts are buying from them not because they are mad that original sculpts are too expensive, but because its easy to buy from a recaster and because at the end of the day, that's their personal decision. Only a small pocket of people are not buying from them and those are people on this board who are afraid of the witchhunt. Recasters win, but not because the original sculpts are expensive, but because majority of buyers do not really care where the sculpts come from, and if there is a cheap one on Ebay, why not?

 

[krec9]

Re: .

https://sideshowcollectors.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128991

Lots of reading but the short version is that Estudio Proteus has entered into an agreement with Trevor Grove to re-release some of his earlier heads but there is a catch. Estudio Proteus is a painting studio with mouths to feed so they are only offering painted versions of the sculpts at $200 a pop. Which is fine since Trevor and Salvadore want to do it that way (their companies, their agreement, their rules) but they are not doing anything to relieve the pressure some fans are feeling to own one of Trevor's sculpts. And hence, not doing anything to counter some people's reasons for visiting recasters.

My personal opinion is that if you are angry at someone stealing your property-drive them out of business. Make the sculpts available, undersell them, put the heads in cereal boxes if you have to. The people buying from babygq are proving there is a market for this stuff-so sell it to them. Don't hide behind artistic integrity and exclusive deals. Give the people what they want to buy.

well said

 

[karamazov80]

As much as I hate rising prices in this hobby, I still don't think high priced sculpts should be blamed as the reason behind the recasts. I think regardless of the price of the legit sculpts, recasters always exist and people who buy recasts are buying from them not because they are mad that original sculpts are too expensive, but because its easy to buy from a recaster and because at the end of the day, that's their personal decision.

Well think back on how this whole mess first started. Trevor was actively on the boards, selling sculpts on his own for $35 a pop. That was when Q started selling counterfeit sculpts on eBay, for a higher price. And that appeared to be what drove Trevor away from the boards. So, you're right that their being more expensive isn't what leads to recasting efforts. Anyone trying to make a quick buck with no respect for the artists can do that for any number of reasons. In Q's case, he used eBay which gave him access to more potential customers than Trevor, and that gave him an advantage, and thus, motivation. I'm sure he also sells them in his store or whatever he has.

The recaster can't be stopped, but he can be slowed down, and the artist can still reap benefits. But to do that I think a genuine alternative being made available at an accessible (if not necessarily competitive) price is necessary. Otherwise it's essentially just going to be status quo. I think folks who are willing to pay $200 for a painted sculpt are largely the same group who would not buy from Q anyway. So while it's nice to have legit sculpts made available, I don't think this new deal is going to have a major influence on Q's sales.

 

[vareika]

Well think back on how this whole mess first started. Trevor was actively on the boards, selling sculpts on his own for $35 a pop. That was when Q started selling counterfeit sculpts on eBay, for a higher price. And that appeared to be what drove Trevor away from the boards. So, you're right that their being more expensive isn't what leads to recasting efforts. Anyone trying to make a quick buck with no respect for the artists can do that for any number of reasons. In Q's case, he used eBay which gave him access to more potential customers than Trevor, and that gave him an advantage, and thus, motivation. I'm sure he also sells them in his store or whatever he has.

The recaster can't be stopped, but he can be slowed down, and the artist can still reap benefits. But to do that I think a genuine alternative being made available at an accessible (if not necessarily competitive) price is necessary. Otherwise it's essentially just going to be status quo. I think folks who are willing to pay $200 for a painted sculpt are largely the same group who would not buy from Q anyway. So while it's nice to have legit sculpts made available, I don't think this new deal is going to have a major influence on Q's sales.

Definetly, I know some people think that Trevor / Proteus happened because Trevor wanted to fight Q. I personally think it happen because Trevor and Proteus wanted to form a partnership and offer yet another avenue, though pricey, for people to buy legit. It was by no means the solution to the recasting, it was simply another legit option. I guess that was the point I wanted to make - that recasting will continue regardless, and Trevor / Proteus partnership - though on paper maybe was partially started to combat recasts - but in reality, is just to get back in business.

I don't think Trevor / Proteus EVER believed or set out to combat recasts. That's the reason I keep saying their high prices is not the reason recasts happen, and is not what is empowering recasters. The ease of recasting (for people who know how and have the time), the straight up theft of someone else's art, and the general "who cares, its a sculpt I want and its cheap" or "hey its a nice sculpt, wonder who sculpted it" buyers on ebay, is what is empowering Q. Trevor's high prices are not giving Q money. Q's thievery is getting him money.

But totally agreed, the conclusion of the recent partnership is that their customers will end up being a small group of people with deeper pockets, who refuse to buy recasts. And yah, to really compete with Q, they need to decrease their price, but maybe they aren't ready to make that big of a change.

 

[thainer]

Overall I agree with what you said but part of me thinks that getting the legit to bow down or change because of the non-legit is scary because if everyone did that...it just doesn't happen. I don't know how to explain it, but its almost like a making bad drugs legal in order to stop illegal drugs. I know that's probably a sensitive subject but its what this is starting to remind me. As much as I hate rising prices in this hobby, I still don't think high priced sculpts should be blamed as the reason behind the recasts. I think regardless of the price of the legit sculpts, recasters always exist and people who buy recasts are buying from them not because they are mad that original sculpts are too expensive, but because its easy to buy from a recaster and because at the end of the day, that's their personal decision. Only a small pocket of people are not buying from them and those are people on this board who are afraid of the witchhunt. Recasters win, but not because the original sculpts are expensive, but because majority of buyers do not really care where the sculpts come from, and if there is a cheap one on Ebay, why not?

You read the first line in my argument and ignored the rest. I also cited limited runs and the difficulty of coming to the party late, seeing a picture of an awesome head, and not being able to get a copy.

If I see an awesome head on eBay and I'm not a memebr of this forum, I'm gonna buy it because it is there-Q or not.

Now if I scroll down the page and see the same head but in the title it says, "ORIGINAL ARTIST" and the description tells me not to buy inferior 2nd gen copes and it is a comparable price I'll sure as **** get that one.

Maybe some of our sculptors are too busy to run their own eBay auctions but I'll bet they could find an agent or 2 on this board to help them out in this regard.

Again, babygq is proving their is a market for these sculpts. And I think the best way to fight him is to find a way to make the originals available to the people who want them. Not to have to discover this forum, find the customs section, find the interest threads and sift through them till they stumble on the head they just saw Q selling on eBay. eBay may not be the only game in town or even the best but it is surely the biggest. You want to reach a truly global market and sell some **** you need to go there. Q is.

 

[cameosis]

thanks for the link ... shadow81 is quite the guy ... *rolls eyes*

 

[vareika]

You read the first line in my argument and ignored the rest. I also cited limited runs and the difficulty of coming to the party late, seeing a picture of an awesome head, and not being able to get a copy.

If I see an awesome head on eBay and I'm not a memebr of this forum, I'm gonna buy it because it is there-Q or not.

Now if I scroll down the page and see the same head but in the title it says, "ORIGINAL ARTIST" and the description tells me not to buy inferior 2nd gen copes and it is a comparable price I'll sure as **** get that one.

Maybe some of our sculptors are too busy to run their own eBay auctions but I'll bet they could find an agent or 2 on this board to help them out in this regard.

Again, babygq is proving their is a market for these sculpts. And I think the best way to fight him is to find a way to make the originals available to the people who want them. Not to have to discover this forum, find the customs section, find the interest threads and sift through them till they stumble on the head they just saw Q selling on eBay. eBay may not be the only game in town or even the best but it is surely the biggest. You want to reach a truly global market and sell some **** you need to go there. Q is.

Not picking a fight so please don't be so defensive. I read your full post and if anything my response was made in reference to your comment about sculptors learning from re casters.

My point is where does it stop when everyone who is legit needs to start bending their own rules / comfort level just because there are thieves out there. For the record, I would enjoy buying originals at close to recast cost, but like you said, maybe the original artists / sculptors don't have the time to explore those possibilities or don't feel like they need to make things right and start a low cost sale of sculpts they PURPOSELY kept exclusive at a low run (no one seems to be mad that certain customs have limited runs). Q is a swap meet vendor and basically this is his business. Some sculptors here are doing this as a hobby or have other full time sculpting jobs. My ultimate point (which I think you made the same comment) is that Q / recasters are winning because there is a market for cheap, good looking heads. But they are winning because there are buyers, not because there are ridiculously high priced originals or exclusive limited run originals. Customs started out being exclusive, but now everyone and their grandma owns everything. Remember when Hot Toys used to be high end and exclusive haha...

I think Q is reading all of this and just snickering and I'm wondering why do I care so much, its not like my actions will affect anyone outside of the board (or those on the board for that matter). Q will keep recasting and people who do not worry about the Witch Hunt on SSF will keep buying from Q because "hey its a good looking sculpt and hey its pretty cheap, not sure who sculpted it but who cares".